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Pit Bull Ban in Denver = No More Skiing in Colorado - Page 2

post #31 of 56
read page 5 of the document

http://www.denvergov.org/City_Attorn...plate3jump.asp

that specifically deals with transporting animals (pit bulls) through the city of denver with the origin and destination being outside denver.

btw, denver city limits is a very small part of the denver metro area.
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
Personally I wouldn't own a pit bull, nor a Doberman, nor a cocker spaniel. I'd love a rottweiler, German Sheppard, collie, newfy, or any other large breed.
I'm surprised you say this about Dobermans. I've never seen a Dobie that was anyting but a great dog, unless specifically trained to be harmful. Like German Shepards, they are very intelligent dogs, and can be trained to be vicious, but their general nature is very nice.

I find small breeds, especially terriers to be the worst. I had heard that they account for the vast majority of in-home dog bites, especially when the owners let them in beds with people. Terriers are incredibly aggressive. Napolean complex, I guess.
post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
I find small breeds, especially terriers to be the worst. I had heard that they account for the vast majority of in-home dog bites, especially when the owners let them in beds with people. Terriers are incredibly aggressive. Napolean complex, I guess.
I'm sorry, but that's just BS. Again, sterotyping dogs is like sterotyping people, it's stupid.

L
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
I'm sorry, but that's just BS. Again, sterotyping dogs is like sterotyping people, it's stupid.

L
I disagree. Temperment is something they breed for in many breeds. The pit bull was bred specifically to fight and has an agressive temperment. Dogs like dobermans were bred as working dog so their natural temperment is non-agressive.
post #35 of 56

pit bull owners in denver

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
Also what happened to all the pitbull owner residing in denver?
I don't know what happened to all the pit bull owners in Denver, but I do remember receiving several messages on pit bull owners' listserves seeking new families for dogs that could no longer be kept in Denver. Many families posted information about how they could not leave Denver (for financial/family reasons), but wanted their dogs to have new families that loved them as much as they did.
post #36 of 56
One problem with dog bites in general - under reporting. It's hard to report a friend, as was the case with me. If there was a law in place that fined the person who was bitten as well as the dog owner for unreported bites, more people would report. As in my case, I could have used it as a reason to not protect my friend. I could have told him that the bite has to be reported which would have made him report it as well. That excuse would often be enough to get the bite reported. Then action needs to be taken. The law needs to spell out serious penalty for dog owners who harbor criminal like pit bulls and others. Doing this would make the law more fair.

This is a quality of life issue.
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio
I disagree. Temperment is something they breed for in many breeds. The pit bull was bred specifically to fight and has an agressive temperment. Dogs like dobermans were bred as working dog so their natural temperment is non-agressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
I find small breeds, especially terriers to be the worst. I had heard that they account for the vast majority of in-home dog bites, especially when the owners let them in beds with people. Terriers are incredibly aggressive. Napolean complex, I guess.
Again, my problem with John's post is "Terrier" is a pretty generic term. Are we talking about Pit bull terriers, Yorkshire terriers, Jack russell terriers, west highland terriers, Toy fox terriers etc. They are all terriers, but very different from one another. Get the picture?
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Again, my problem with John's post is "Terrier" is a pretty generic term. Are we talking about Pit bull terriers, Yorkshire terriers, Jack russell terriers, west highland terriers, Toy fox terriers etc. They are all terriers, but very different from one another. Get the picture?
Terriers are bred as hunting dogs (the dogs do the hunting, as opposed to helping a hunter flush out quarry, such as a pointer, or gather the quarry, such as a retreiver), so they have a disposition for chasing, biting and hanging on. Those breeds you mentioned are not all that different. Yes, you can stereotype a dog. They were bred to have specific attributes so that they could be stereotyped. Ghost stated size "I'd love a rottweiler, German Sheppard, collie, newfy, or any other large breed." as a stereotype, yet size has less to do with a dog's disposition than breed. An American Staffordshire Terrier (one of the Pitt Bulls), standard Poodle, Husky and Golden retreiver are all approximately the same size, yet have very different dispositions.

Terriers have a tendency to be fairly calm dogs until they get provoked, then they go nuts, and it's very difficult to control them. Granted, almost any dog, if trained properly, can overcome it's natural instincts, but it's hard to do, requires constant maintenance, and always carries a risk that something will trigger the dog to do what it was bred to do. And in the case of a Pitt Bull, if the dog has always seemed to be well mannered, and the owner hasn't trained the dog to resist it's natural instincts, it could be a time bomb, because if something triggers it, they have not developed a way to stop the dog or call it off.

I would ask the owners of Pitt Bulls if they have ever put their dog in a fighting situation and trained it to stop fighting? My dog is a Lab/Husky mix. I trained him to be called off of a chase, because they have an instinct to chase, which could get it killed if it chased a ball into a street or something. With a certain word, my dog will come to a sliding stop and return to my side. Can a Pitt Bull be called off a fight that way? My guess is not, because the survival instinct may not be able to be overcome by training. But since I've never tried to train a Pitt Bull, I wouldn't know.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
Terriers are bred as hunting dogs
Not my yorkie. He's pretty good at hunting tummy rubs and treats....

L
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
I would ask the owners of Pitt Bulls if they have ever put their dog in a fighting situation and trained it to stop fighting?
I am currently training my pit bull (who is a "large dog" at 65 lbs.) to stop whatever he is doing and come to me. I am not going to put him in a fighting situation and test this out, because, as has been pointed out, this could result in one or both dogs being seriously killed or hurt, before I "called him off."

My pit has been in training since I rescued him last fall and is doing great. Ironically, his "classmates" are mostly smaller than him and we have had no problems. Plus, he lives with two cats and gets along great with them.
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by boudreaux
I am currently training my pit bull (who is a "large dog" at 65 lbs.) to stop whatever he is doing and come to me. I am not going to put him in a fighting situation and test this out, because, as has been pointed out, this could result in one or both dogs being seriously killed or hurt, before I "called him off."

My pit has been in training since I rescued him last fall and is doing great. Ironically, his "classmates" are mostly smaller than him and we have had no problems. Plus, he lives with two cats and gets along great with them.
That's good to hear, but what happens when he startles one of the cats and it makes a dive for his face (especially if it has front claws, but even if not), and he procedes to shred the cat. I don't mind one less cat in the world (j/k), but are you willing to put him down if he does this?

Dogs that get rescued have shady backgrounds. You never know what the dog may have been through in it's past and what might trigger it to do something that is totally "out of character".

Is it possible to put him in a defensive position with some sort of inanimate object? Maybe give him an 18oz T-bone and try to take it from him. See how he reacts. We had issues with our dog (the Husky side coming out) getting aggressive when you tried to take food from him. We beat that reaction out of him well before our first child came into the world.
post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
That's good to hear, but what happens when he startles one of the cats and it makes a dive for his face (especially if it has front claws, but even if not), and he procedes to shred the cat. I don't mind one less cat in the world (j/k), but are you willing to put him down if he does this?

Dogs that get rescued have shady backgrounds. You never know what the dog may have been through in it's past and what might trigger it to do something that is totally "out of character".

Is it possible to put him in a defensive position with some sort of inanimate object? Maybe give him an 18oz T-bone and try to take it from him. See how he reacts. We had issues with our dog (the Husky side coming out) getting aggressive when you tried to take food from him. We beat that reaction out of him well before our first child came into the world.
John --
Our cat (who has front claws; ask my legs) has attacked our pit in the face several times. Thanks to intensive training, as well as him being born with a naturally calm and friendly temperament, the dog doesn't react (besides a whine or two). They are actually big friends.

You are correct, there is no way to know what was in his background before I rescued him. That is why I am constantly monitoring him and making sure that everything stays as peaceful as it is now. I do not leave him alone with cats, children, or strangers, and watch him like a hawk when anyone new (esp. kids) are present. To date, he has done nothing but make pals ... in fact, a friend of mine who is afraid of most dogs claims he is the sweetest dog she's ever met.

I have also attempted the taking food away from him several times (like you mentioned) ... he does not react to this at all. The kind of training I have done with him (classes, plus a method recommended for pit bulls) has firmly established myself as well as his "dad" as the Alphas. (It does not use any sort of physical violence or pain.)

Interestingly, the only dog that has ever attacked me is a chihuahua -- that attacked me, my pit, and my pit mix while we were out running. Neither of my dogs attacked it back (they just barked and growled when it bit me), despite the fact that they both could have gobbled it up in a few bites.
post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by boudreaux
John --
Our cat (who has front claws; ask my legs) has attacked our pit in the face several times. Thanks to intensive training, as well as him being born with a naturally calm and friendly temperament, the dog doesn't react (besides a whine or two). They are actually big friends.

You are correct, there is no way to know what was in his background before I rescued him. That is why I am constantly monitoring him and making sure that everything stays as peaceful as it is now. I do not leave him alone with cats, children, or strangers, and watch him like a hawk when anyone new (esp. kids) are present. To date, he has done nothing but make pals ... in fact, a friend of mine who is afraid of most dogs claims he is the sweetest dog she's ever met.

I have also attempted the taking food away from him several times (like you mentioned) ... he does not react to this at all. The kind of training I have done with him (classes, plus a method recommended for pit bulls) has firmly established myself as well as his "dad" as the Alphas. (It does not use any sort of physical violence or pain.)

Interestingly, the only dog that has ever attacked me is a chihuahua -- that attacked me, my pit, and my pit mix while we were out running. Neither of my dogs attacked it back (they just barked and growled when it bit me), despite the fact that they both could have gobbled it up in a few bites.
It's great to see people who do the right things with dogs

Unfortunately, there are still a lot of people doing the wrong things. Hopefully (but not likely) those people won't breed their dogs.
post #44 of 56
I'm just going by the Dobermans that I have met. A larger percentage of them seemed high-strung and nervous; they seemed afraid. A dog in fear will be more likely to bite. I don't know why I didn't like the one cocker spanial I knew, but I wouldn't trust it for a half a second.

For the first half dozen years of my life and a couple of years before that, our family had a collie-newfoundland cross. Just picture a dog the size of the newfoundland, but looking like a black and white collie. This dog was quite capable of being fierce, and was a very good watch dog. A chap in the neighbourhood who was into such things was quite fond of his fighting dog, reputed to be the best fighting dog in the area. Ironically this dog sometimes got loose. Our dog was let loose in our yard and trained not to leave the yard unless going for a walk with my dad. My dad told the fellow to keep a better chain on his dog, because if it came on our yard our dog would kill it. The guy laughed; the guy's dog died, off it's chain, on our lawn. Yet our dog, was very friendly. We children could pull it's ears and tail, and even ride it like a horse. Later when we were a little older, it would follow us kids around the neighbourhood and protect us from strangers.
The dog would chase cars in the country, but not in the city:, and killed any cat it happened to come accross, unless my dad called it off. One word from my dad and it obeyed immidiately. If you're going to have a dog you should train it to obey you.
post #45 of 56

so slap me

gratuitous? alright, maybe.

still:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...18/wkat418.xml

i know, they were hungry.

having offered that, i swear that the sweetest, lovingest dog i have ever met was a male pit bull a friend of mine raised, with nothing but love and more love.

i miss buddha.
post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
gratuitous? alright, maybe.

still:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...18/wkat418.xml

i know, they were hungry.

having offered that, i swear that the sweetest, lovingest dog i have ever met was a male pit bull a friend of mine raised, with nothing but love and more love.

i miss buddha.
Heck if I was starving an along came a big hunk of beef, I would kill it too.
post #47 of 56
Yeah but! That's a Pit Bull. The thought of dogs like that being loose in the City is real scarry. What if that were a person?

They are a menace to our community and something needs to be done about it.
post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
Heck if I was starving an along came a big hunk of beef, I would kill it too.
a "hunk of beef" can assume many forms, 'specially to a hungry and/or mistreated dog.

if parents can't raise kids responsibly, i'm not holding my breath waiting for dog owners (of certain breeds, anyway) to step up. last "heated discussion" i got into was all because some jackass was slapping his dog around. my girlfriend and i stopped to "talk to" a great dane sitting on the sidewalk. owner was in the coffee shop. he comes out and is furious because the dog wasn't threatening enough. poor baby was just a big sweetheart, a beautiful animal. i guess that didn't fit dumbass's 'tough guy' picture well enough. he slaps the dog, pushes one of my big buttons, and off we go.

pit bulls just seem to be born into all the wrong families.
post #49 of 56
You do not need idiots making a nuisance of themselves by roving around with 'hard' dogs -whatever breed.

If particular breeds feature in violent attacks, then ban them.

American pit bulls are now banned in the UK, along with a few other breeds - but Staffordshire terriers and cross bred terriers now feature in many attacks. The difference between American pit bulls and other breeds of pit bull is difficult for non-experts to see anyway. It used to be Rottweilers (and Alsations before that) were problem dogs, though I believe the police now find Alsatians are not fierce enough.

Muzzling dogs and keeping them on a leash in streets also makes sense.
post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
...
Unfortunately, there are still a lot of people doing the wrong things. Hopefully (but not likely) those people won't breed their dogs.
Even more hopefully, those people won't breed THEMSELVES.
post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
Even more hopefully, those people won't breed THEMSELVES.
if only...
post #52 of 56
Anyone ever own an Akita? Maybe just a little too close to the Wolf's DNA. Even a pure Husky is a dog that needs to be cloesly controlled and heavily trained, although many are very mellow. I have an issue with that because I don't know that there's a good way to tell the good ones from the bad ones. We had a friend once, who was a dog trainer and had a pure husky. One day, it dropped a ball under a table, and their 3 year old daughter was under the table playing and picked it up. The dog bit her in the face. It was quite messy. Many stiches. They put the dog down.
post #53 of 56
My son and his friends have pit bulls and they can be very nice dogs to most humans.
We would have them over with our two dogs a rottie-boxer and a shepard-dane . They got along fine and the pitbull was such a friendly dog we really enjoyed having it for overnight stays.
One night it became startled because my wife stepped on it and it was confused in the dark. The other dogs got up and were promptly attacked in the legs by the sweet little land shark(i like that I have never heard that before)

For the next week I had the pleasure of attending to numerous bites all over the lower ends of my two dogs. It was very painful for them and the sweet little shark had not a scratch on him as he was never bitten

Later in his short life this sweet little land shark and his brothers and sister got out of the fence and attacked an old man out walking in the street with out the gentleman having a chance to retreat.
All were put down by the authorities and reasonably so
These dogs have a trigger mechanism that when threatened or scared or in a pack will kill anything in sight
I never thought so but I saw it with my own eyes.
post #54 of 56
Bottom line is that it comes down to responsible pet ownership. It drives me nuts to see owners letting there dogs roam the neighborhood or not even knowing their dogs are out. We live in a fairly secluded neighborhood on a dead end street. Lots of folks have dogs and I can't count how many times we have gone knocking on doors returning a dog to it's owner that was out running around. On a walk yesterday we were startled by a pit bull that came running out at us. Our dog immediately went to my wife's side to block the pit bull. He was being very agressive but our dog is very well trained and heals at command. The dog had no collar on but we knew that this dog belonged to the house in front of us. We went up to the door and let them know their dog was out running around. They had no idea there dog was out. Next time it's a call to animal control. Luckily nothing happened but we won't be walking that route with our dog anymore.
post #55 of 56
There are particular breeds listed on your link that have been banned outright in some countries. There are breeds on that link that I would consider downright dangerous.

eg. http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/canarydog.htm

It is written that "The Canary Dog requires a very dominant owner who understand the alpha nature in canines. No member of the family can be uncomfortable around the dog"

Sure, YOU might be able to control this thing, but I doubt that many can.
post #56 of 56

Pit Bull article from Houston Chronicle

Aug. 9, 2006, 1:35AM
Whether good or bad, these dogs have hard time shaking being labeled as dangerous

By LOUIS B. PARKS and MARY VUONG
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle
Bad dog or badly misunderstood?
The name doesn't help. Pit bull. It sounds fierce, aggressive.
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Stories like the one in Tuesday's Chronicle don't help: the discovery of a suspected fighting-dog breeding operation with 300 pit bulls raised for illegal fighting events.
The dogs were neglected and unsheltered, with no friendly contact from humans or other dogs. Little wonder the Houston Humane Society, which now must house and care for the dogs, has to be extremely cautious with them.
"We have to be very careful so they can't break free," said Courtney Frank, spokeswoman for the Humane Society.
"They are aggressive toward each other. These are wild animals, not because they are pit bulls but because of how they've been treated. If a mother put a child in the basement and never talked to it, it would be wild, too."
Considering adoption? Forget it. Even if these dogs were not being held as possible evidence for a trial, the HHS would not be adopting them out.
"These dogs are seriously neglected; they are no longer family dogs," Frank said. "We see evidence that some of them were fought, which is a crime."
News stories about pit bulls attacking humans, especially small children, have given the dogs a fearsome reputation. So much so that some cities have created breed-specific laws against them, restricting ownership or public contact with the dogs.
Advocates for pit bulls say the reputation is based on misinformation, but agree pit bulls can be dangerous animals if mistreated. Even the best ones are not for everyone, if only because of their strength and physical needs.
"The majority, if they're bred true to the breed, are always friendly," said Terri Ferguson, a board member of the Texas Gulf Coast American Staffordshire Terrier Club. Yet "you can get a (dog with) bad temperament in every breed."
Staffordshire terriers are the American Kennel Club registered version of the pit bull, a distinction started 70 years ago. Technically, pit bulls and American Staffordshires are not the same. The term pit bull is often broadly, and sometimes incorrectly, used on a spectrum of dogs.
"A good American Staffordshire terrier and a good pit bull are really difficult to tell apart. I can't do it in many cases," said Bill Peterson, a board member of Staffordshire Terrier Club of America.
Peterson has trained "many thousands" of dogs, including pit bulls, in Houston and Florida. He's seen illegal pit fights. He says no person who fights dogs would want them to be aggressive toward people.
"One of the characteristics of a properly bred, trained pit dog is that it literally won't bite people. Why? They have to be handled by people in the pit. I'm not going to say there is anything right about a pit fight, but when you observe the standardized rules, they have to be handled by people in the pit with them.
"There are dangerous dogs in every breed. It's unfair to persecute a breed for the crimes of a few dogs," said Peterson.
"These dogs are born to fight; they've been selectively bred for that," Peterson said. "It makes them a management problem. They don't deserve to die, but they can't be allowed to run in the neighborhood. If they get in a fight with another dog, they will be the winner. They have the physical power and the inclination. Just like an athlete."
If they are no more aggressive to people than other dogs, why the horrible reputation and stories of people maimed or even killed by pit bulls?
"If you get bitten by a Chihuahua, you might have superficial wounds, but if you get bitten by a pit bull, you might end up at the hospital," said veterinarian Jonathan Cooper, who has many regular pit bull patients at Westbury Animal Hospital. He said he treats pit bulls like any other breed.
"There are bad people and there are certain aggressive dogs in any breed," Cooper said.
"Pit bull attacks are statistically very rare," said Abbie Moore, executive director of 1-800-save-a-pet.com, which helps place thousands of pets each year. "Pit bulls are family dogs, bred to be aggressive to other animals, but extremely loyal companions to humans. If it made the news every time there was a (dog) attack, there wouldn't be time for any other news. Anytime there is a pit bull attack, it makes the news. Pit bulls don't bite as often as other breeds, but when they do they can do a lot of damage."
Pit bulls have been bred to fight other dogs, so out on the street, some could become a threat. Often people are injured when they get between a pit bull and another dog. Anyone who has jumped between fighting dogs knows a human is likely to be an accidental bite victim.
Unfortunately, good pit bulls can be victimized from their bad reputation, both coming and going. Many people who don't understand or really care about dogs want pit bulls because they are supposed to be dangerous, just like some people want a pet venomous snake.
"It's definitely a status thing in a certain strata of society," said Moore.
Many of these people later want to get rid of the pit bull because they become afraid. "There are a tremendous number of pit bulls (put up for adoption)," especially after news reports of pit bull attacks, Moore said. Many of these dogs will not get adopted.
"Rescuers know that when they take in a pit bull, they are in for the long haul," Moore said. "When you do find (an prospective owner), you have to be sure their intentions are honorable, and they are educated."
louis.parks@chron.com mary.vuong@chron.com
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