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Jackson Hole Boarder to Plead Guilty - Page 4

post #91 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
This incident is what scares me about skiing - not falling or twisting my knee or breaking a leg- but getting injured/killed/maimed by an out of control boarder or skier who is young and filled with testosterone and no respect for the rules or those around him. Unfortunately with the young crowd this is the rule rather than the exception. Too many young folks think they are in some X Games boarder video.

One penalty I think should be imposed is a lifetime ban from skiing or boarding on any public mountain anywhere. I don't know if the judge has the power to impose such an ammendment to the sentence but if he could I would say it would be a good option in addition to whatever penalty is handed out. These young out of control types need to be removed from the slopes permanently. Thats the way to solve the problem.
I believe such a stipulation can be a condition of parole but once parole is over I don't think it can. I'm not an expert but I do know that the constitutionality of post-parole penalties is an area of controversy.
post #92 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
This incident is what scares me about skiing - not falling or twisting my knee or breaking a leg- but getting injured/killed/maimed by an out of control boarder or skier who is young and filled with testosterone and no respect for the rules or those around him. Unfortunately with the young crowd this is the rule rather than the exception. Too many young folks think they are in some X Games boarder video.
...
Jeez, some of you people talk like Gen-X (or whatever they're being called today) invented reckless skiing and/or riding. I've been nailed in the back twice, both times by skiers in their 30's. The first time was roughly 30 years ago. I doubt that person was influenced by video games. We barely had color tv back then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
...out of control boarder or skier who is young and filled with testosterone and no respect for the rules or those around him. ...
I believe it is our responsibility as long-time skiers/riders to help teach them the rules. Many of those who have no respect for the rules don't realize there are any rules.
post #93 of 114
I can't imagine that this young man would ever want to board again after killing someone.

If he did choose to board again, and if he were ever to be out of control again........well....the government should have lynched him when they had a chance.
post #94 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
Jeez, some of you people talk like Gen-X (or whatever they're being called today) invented reckless skiing and/or riding. I've been nailed in the back twice, both times by skiers in their 30's. The first time was roughly 30 years ago. I doubt that person was influenced by video games. We barely had color tv back then.



I believe it is our responsibility as long-time skiers/riders to help teach them the rules. Many of those who have no respect for the rules don't realize there are any rules.
I wonder how such advice or teaching would be taken, however.

For instance:

"Hi, I noticed that you straightlined that narrow passage and almost rammed a couple kids. There is a rule about the downhill skier having the right of way. I wasn't sure if you were aware of this and I am just trying to help out."

Would the response be:?

"Thank you for pointing out that I was in the wrong. I will make every effort to follow the rules in the future"

I don't think so.

For 12-22 year olds the response would probably be one of the following:

"Eat me"", Up Yours", "I like living on the edge dude" .

For 23 to 40 year olds the response would probably be:

"Mind your own business", "Who died and made you the boss?", "I paid $42 for this lift ticket and will ski how I want"

My view is it takes authority figures to really get the message to sink in. Not too many kids would terll a patroller to "Bite me" if approached with an educational message. Thats why I favor safety patrollers at resorts. Not Ski Patrollers but simply safety guides whose only task is to look out for this type of behavior and educate, or if needed discipline violators. They could be vollunteers, get free season passes etc for working once a week.
post #95 of 114
Yeah - I've been hit from behind by 2 out of control SKIERS both of whom where over 30 and probably over 50... both knocked me out of skis... the first sent skis about 25m down hill where my friend collected them for me(this on a flat run out)

the first "It was an accident"....

the second "you TURNED into MY path" (I tried to explain that I saw skiing as involving turning but we seemed to disagree about this)
post #96 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
I wonder how such advice or teaching would be taken, however.
A fair concern, though sometimes you might be surprised.

Last season, a person I was skiing with was very nearly hit by a guy straight-lining a fairly steep run with -- to all appearances -- about zero ability to turn. This guy was several steps below the Jackson-Hole guy, in that he was at least avoiding really fatal speeds by periodically sitting down and sliding 30 or 40 yards on his rear.

I caught up with him as he was completing his next slide-for-life, and told him, calmly though in no uncertain terms, that he should not be going so fast, or even be on a steep run, until he had learned enough skills to control himself.

A while later, outside the lodge, he and another guy (both of whom, I was noticing with some regret, were pretty big and healthy-looking fellows) came up to me as I was putting my skis into the rack ... and apologized for being foolish earlier.
post #97 of 114
Incidentally, the biggest factor in the increase in this sort of thing -- it seems to me -- isn't the advent of boards or promotion of "extreme skiing," but grooming. Before winch-cats, anybody with minimal skills who tried to straightline a steep run would last about 12 feet before going down in a whirlwind of snow and equipment.
post #98 of 114
Skier's Code:
  1. Always stay in control and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
  2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
  3. You must not stop where you obstruct a trail or are not visible from above.
  4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
  5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
  6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
  7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.
Doesn't this say everything you need to observe to ski safely with others?

You can add drinking and using drugs to this list to make it complete.

You buy your ticket, in this purchase you sign on to this agreement.

If you harm another while not observing this directive you should be held responsible and accountable for your actions.

Enough said.
post #99 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ
Skier's Code:
  1. Always stay in control and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
  2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
  3. You must not stop where you obstruct a trail or are not visible from above.
  4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
  5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
  6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
  7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.
Doesn't this say everything you need to observe to ski safely with others?

You can add drinking and using drugs to this list to make it complete.

You buy your ticket, in this purchase you sign on to this agreement.

If you harm another while not observing this directive you should be held responsible and accountable for your actions.

Enough said.
hmmm gary - mine has 10 points
Quote:
Alpine Responsibility
No matter how you crank turns on snow, always show courtesy to others and be aware that there are inherent risks in all snow recreational activities that common sense and personal awareness can reduce. These risks include rapid changes in weather and surface conditions, as well as natural and artificial hazards such as rocks, trees, stumps, bare spots, ice, lift towers, snow fences and snow making equipment. Observe the code listed 1 to 10 and share with others the responsibility for a great experience.
Know your ability, always stay in control and be able to stop and avoid other people or objects. It is your responsibility to stay in control on the ground and in the air.
Take lessons from qualified professional instructors to learn and progress.
As you proceed downhill or overtake another person, you must avoid the people below and beside you.
Do not stop where you obstruct a trail or run or are not visible from above.
When entering a trail or run or starting downhill, look uphill and give way to others.
When riding chairlifts always use the restraining devices. Always use suitable restraints to avoid runaway skiing/boarding equipment.
Observe and obey all signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails or runs and out of closed areas.
Before using any lift you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.
Do not ski, snowboard, ride a chairlift or undertake any other alpine activity if your ability is impaired by drugs or alcohol.
If you are involved in, or witness an accident, alert Ski Patrol, remain at the scene and identify yourself to Ski Patrol.



Know the code
It’s your responsibility. Failure to observe the code may result in cancellation of your ticket or pass by ski patrol or other authorised personnel.
post #100 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
hmmm gary - mine has 10 points
I don't know where yours came from but Garry's is correct. Yours looks like some resort took some editorial licence with it.
post #101 of 114
the responsibility can vary by state. For instance, in Colorado, it is incorporated into law. It wouldn't surprise me if the Aussies decided they needed more rules.
post #102 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
I wonder how such advice or teaching would be taken, however.

For instance:

"Hi, I noticed that you straightlined that narrow passage and almost rammed a couple kids. There is a rule about the downhill skier having the right of way. I wasn't sure if you were aware of this and I am just trying to help out."

Would the response be:?

"Thank you for pointing out that I was in the wrong. I will make every effort to follow the rules in the future"

I don't think so.

For 12-22 year olds the response would probably be one of the following:

"Eat me"", Up Yours", "I like living on the edge dude" .

For 23 to 40 year olds the response would probably be:

"Mind your own business", "Who died and made you the boss?", "I paid $42 for this lift ticket and will ski how I want"

My view is it takes authority figures to really get the message to sink in. Not too many kids would terll a patroller to "Bite me" if approached with an educational message. Thats why I favor safety patrollers at resorts. Not Ski Patrollers but simply safety guides whose only task is to look out for this type of behavior and educate, or if needed discipline violators. They could be vollunteers, get free season passes etc for working once a week.

If I'm in uniform, I generally don't get blown off. If I figure they are an actual danger to the public, I call ski patrol dispatch and turn them in.
post #103 of 114
jstraw - I believe that apart from the little intro and threat of lift pass removal that is the same all over OZ (I may be wrong having only skied 2 resorts out of the 5 main ones)....

If anyone took "licence" with it i would say the ski patrol in Oz....

They have the stuff in LARGE banners under all the lifts.... numbers one to ten on the way up in my main resort.... the other just on lift pass and in toilets - but always 10 in Oz AFAIK
post #104 of 114
The list Garry posted is the list as presented by the National Ski Patrol System, Inc.

http://www.nsp.org/1/nsp/Safety_Info...bilityCode.asp
post #105 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
jstraw - I believe that apart from the little intro and threat of lift pass removal that is the same all over OZ (I may be wrong having only skied 2 resorts out of the 5 main ones)....

If anyone took "licence" with it i would say the ski patrol in Oz....

They have the stuff in LARGE banners under all the lifts.... numbers one to ten on the way up in my main resort.... the other just on lift pass and in toilets - but always 10 in Oz AFAIK
So, does every Aussie wear retention straps on their skis and boards? The part about taking lessons is just plain weird...
post #106 of 114
the australian ski patrol list it here
http://www.skipatrol.org.au/sub_page.asp?ID=159

and guess what? - it is word for word as above as far asd I can see...
post #107 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
So, does every Aussie wear retention straps on their skis and boards? The part about taking lessons is just plain weird...

it says suitable restraints to prevent run-away equipment (so does gary's BTW... his just skips the chairlift restraint part)

and yes they will refuse to allow you on a lift in the 2 resorts I have skied at unless you have either
a)skis with brakes(like an alpine binding)
b) board with leash attached to YOU (not to binding)
c)skis with leashes attached to boots(tele bindings)

a runaway ski/board is a lethal weapon - one just missed my head about 2 seasons ago....:
I carried it back to patrol so the owner would have to go hunt for it and explain...
post #108 of 114
Agree with sjjohnston that resorts have brought some of the risk on themselves by grooming steeper and steeper runs. Which of course the skiing public wants, so joe and josephine level 4 can brag about acing black diamonds. OTOH, this isn't going to change, anymore than "dude" (or whatever word replaces it) being linguistic password for "Hey I'm young/cool/know what's happening. And you don't."

So it's back to individual responsibility. GarryZ is totally right that most 16 year olds need more time "to define themselves." (I see a lot of 21-year olds who still seem fuzzy about who they are, let alone doing what society expects of them.) But how did we get to this point, where "defining" meant lower standards of responsibility along the way? It's not about boarders versus skiers, or 16 versus 30, it's about folks on the slopes who use Peter Pan as a role model...
post #109 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
it says suitable restraints to prevent run-away equipment (so does gary's BTW... his just skips the chairlift restraint part)

and yes they will refuse to allow you on a lift in the 2 resorts I have skied at unless you have either
a)skis with brakes(like an alpine binding)
b) board with leash attached to YOU (not to binding)
c)skis with leashes attached to boots(tele bindings)

a runaway ski/board is a lethal weapon - one just missed my head about 2 seasons ago....:
I carried it back to patrol so the owner would have to go hunt for it and explain...
I took the wording to indicate the purpose was in part, to prevent skis falling from lifts and that ski brakes are not good enough.
post #110 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
I took the wording to indicate the purpose was in part, to prevent skis falling from lifts and that ski brakes are not good enough.

ummm it says this

When riding chairlifts always use the restraining devices. Always use suitable restraints to avoid runaway skiing/boarding equipment.

so you MUST use the bar/safety chain etc on a lift...
and MUST use some sort of restraint that will prevent a runaway board/skis

ie it is really 2 points but they obviously liked the number 10 better than 11... and someone thinks as both have "restraint" is similar so these two can be joined up...
post #111 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by disski
ummm it says this

When riding chairlifts always use the restraining devices. Always use suitable restraints to avoid runaway skiing/boarding equipment.

so you MUST use the bar/safety chain etc on a lift...
and MUST use some sort of restraint that will prevent a runaway board/skis

ie it is really 2 points but they obviously liked the number 10 better than 11... and someone thinks as both have "restraint" is similar so these two can be joined up...
Oh dear...I see it now. It hadn'tr occured to me they were alking about the bar on the chair.

Yes, using the bar on the chair and ski brakes are CLEARLY just one point.
post #112 of 114
So disski, presumably the Aussie resorts don't have chairlifts with no safety bars, like you see in the US?
I know that Europeans who ski in the US are often surprised by the lack of them.
post #113 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bell
So disski, presumably the Aussie resorts don't have chairlifts with no safety bars, like you see in the US?
I know that Europeans who ski in the US are often surprised by the lack of them.


I still freak out when I see a chair with no bar.... one of the things drummed into you in lessons is to use the bar - but safely - no hammering into peoples heads or raising it without checking people are clear....

I have had it ingrained into me that even if I THINK I don't need it we need to set good examples - so no matter how slow or low the lift is we use it (beginner lift I could almost jump off... but kids need to learn to use bars)

We often get high winds (I have skied with 130kph winds) and kids can be bumped out if there is a sudden safety stop.... they are taught to lift bars ONLY when OVER haybales or safety baskets...

We do get kids and even adults bump out.... so far no deaths i can think of... although a few broken bits... while i have been in resort anyway...
post #114 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
I wonder how such advice or teaching would be taken, however.

For instance:

"Hi, I noticed that you straightlined that narrow passage and almost rammed a couple kids. There is a rule about the downhill skier having the right of way. I wasn't sure if you were aware of this and I am just trying to help out."

Would the response be:?

"Thank you for pointing out that I was in the wrong. I will make every effort to follow the rules in the future"

I don't think so.

For 12-22 year olds the response would probably be one of the following:

"Eat me"", Up Yours", "I like living on the edge dude" .

For 23 to 40 year olds the response would probably be:

"Mind your own business", "Who died and made you the boss?", "I paid $42 for this lift ticket and will ski how I want"

My view is it takes authority figures to really get the message to sink in. Not too many kids would terll a patroller to "Bite me" if approached with an educational message. Thats why I favor safety patrollers at resorts. Not Ski Patrollers but simply safety guides whose only task is to look out for this type of behavior and educate, or if needed discipline violators. They could be vollunteers, get free season passes etc for working once a week.
I've been in both positions, as safety (we called them Mountain Rangers), and as Patrol. The answers I get usually fall into 3 catagories.

1) "I'm sorry, I'll never do it again" sometimes, I have gotten that before he even knew what I was stopping him for. If I figure the guy is full of crap, I pull his lift ticket anyway, but if I think there is some sincerity in it, I let him go after a little talking to.....

2) "I didn't know/realize" I usually let them go when I see they actually unnderstand what I stopped them for.

3)"But I WAS <in control,etc>" in which case I give them MY definition of being in control, and explain why it's dangerous to do what they did. If they see my point, I let them go also, but sometimes they just don't see the light.

I've have gotten the "bite me" response once. From a 18 YO Punk/boyfriend of a marketing dept. woman's 17 YO daughter,. He was skiing on a free ticket. Real rocket scientist. He never got another freebie ticket again....

Remember though, I can get security waiting for me (following them) at the bottom of the hill within a minute of me radioing them...
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