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Snowbird Video MA if you want

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaK1S0Ycf20

here is some video from snowbird, I didt really have any goals in the video but to stay on my feet and look decent doing it.

One thing i noticed is drop my arms back alittle in the thick corn snow from the last clip of me coming down toad hill.
post #2 of 25
Thread Starter 
wait just wanted to add

me = 22 years old, level 2 cert as of 2006, skiing for 4 years 100 days a season
height - 5'9
weight - 165lb

Boots X-Wave 10.0s
Skis Volkl Gotamas 183cm

conditions - corn snow of varying depths

runs Powder Paradise and Toad Hill easy compared to alot of stuff at snowbird.

edit - one thing that has been pionted out to me by the gurus at snowbird pionted out to me a weak movement in the turn. if you see this and have anyway to help me out it would be greatly appreciated.
post #3 of 25
Looks like fun. Work on the crossover/under.
post #4 of 25
BW,

Could you explain "weak movement"?

For late season at Snowbird, this skiing will get you around just fine. It's hard to do it in softer snow and on steeper slopes, but slowing down your change of lateral direction will add more power to your skiing. At 20 seconds (the first close up), you can see the quick change of direction. In the last clip, you can see a little pop upwards to initiate the turn. I see these as symptoms of the same thing. As Slatz has said, if you use cross over to get your skis onto their new edges earlier in the turn, they will give you more turning power so that you won't need to pop up or turn the the skis quickly into and out of the fall line. One back door exercise that helps you with this is Ten Toes. Think about getting all ten toes pointed down the fall line before turning out of it.
post #5 of 25
Quote:
One back door exercise that helps you with this is Ten Toes. Think about getting all ten toes pointed down the fall line before turning out of it.
Good call, Rusty.
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty

One back door exercise that helps you with this is Ten Toes. Think about getting all ten toes pointed down the fall line before turning out of it.
Could you elaborate on this a little?

I've not heard of this drill and it sounds interesting. I really like the imagery, but I'm trying to visualize how it would be "properly" done.

It seems in those last few turns of bwpa's video that he's fully completing the turn but using a pretty abrupt transition into the next. But still, wouldn't he have had all ten toes pointing down the fall line before coming across into the transition of the next turn?

I'm just being dense about understanding where in the turn the toes are supposed to be down the hill and what happens after they are.

Thanks.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
In that thick corn snow (last clip) it was nearly impossible to transition with no up movement at that time for me, I was popping consciously i.e. the snow was sticky so I knew I wanted to Jump to break the suction because. The snow was sticky in the last clip.

I can see what you are guys are seeing, I am holding on to the turns to long and then launch myself into the new turn. I am just not sure on that particular day I could of done it any other way.

Also the skis are a 30 meter side cut with a 105mm waist maybe that why its looks so "aggressive" to get the skis on edge.




post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
Also the skis are a 30 meter side cut with a 105mm waist maybe that why its looks so "aggressive" to get the skis on edge.
quite short turns @ 30 m sidecut/115 well done - you probably could find a difference in moving if you try to relax your adductors a bit.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
(10 toes)Could you elaborate on this a little?
Bob,

The purpose of 10 toes is to slow down the turn initiation so that the upper part of the turn can be rounded out to match the shape of the lower part of the turn. Sometimes we get in the habit of trying to get out of the fall line quickly to control speed, but what we really end up doing is shortening the entry into the fall line instead. This tends to be especially true for east coast skiers who are used to narrow, crowded trails with short verticals (i.e. we get spend more time on the brakes than with the gas pedal down to conserve vertical and maintain skier separation). The concept is that turns like Bushwacker's occur so quickly through the fall line that all 10 toes are never pointing directly downhill at any noticeable point in time. Slowing down the turn initiation is the only way to get that "Yup - they're pointing downhill - now" moment. The cool part of this exercise is that you have to change your turn initiation mechanics in order to be able to do this, but you don't have to know what you're doing. Simply trying to stall the toes in the fall line usually accomplishes the goal. Focusing on one area causes changes in a different one. This is why I call it a back door exercise.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA

I can see what you are guys are seeing, I am holding on to the turns to long and then launch myself into the new turn. I am just not sure on that particular day I could of done it any other way.
I've been there, done that. Late season, lower elevation at Snowbird - the snow is like mashed potatoes with super glue mixed in. It's kind of a catch 22. The way you were skiing, there was no other option. When there is no other option - there's only one way to ski.

The adjustments you need to make in heavier snow are:
1) feet closer together
2) more even weighting between the feet
3) shallower turns
4) faster speed to ride higher in the snow and have more momentum force to fight stickiness
You need to do all these adjustments at once and your turns need to be silky smooth with no jerkiness or you are TOAST. If you practice the 10 toes exercise in normal snow, it can help get you comfortable with more speed and power in your turns yet with gentler turn initiation and then you can use that in the muck to turn without popping. But it's not easy. Every piece of your brain screams "don't do it".

Have you ever water skied on one ski behind a slow ass boat? During the start up transition before you get on plane and can put your back foot in, your brain is going "bad news - not enough control to make this work - you got one more second or else". If you try to pull yourself up, you can get on place for a second, but then there is slack in the tow rope and you sink back down again. Heavy snow is like this except that most skiers never turn the throttle up high enough to really get on plane and even if they do, the first little screw up happens and you start sinking back in and going defensive/pop/offensive/sink/defensive.
post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well Rusty wow those are some really good ideas.

Just wanted to piont out that in the first clip from behind that snow wasnt sticky at all, there was still an very aggresive movement into the turn, and a slight tail pick up do to the small moguls that exsited there. Second clip like glue, and I actually thought I was going pretty fast but I guess not....
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Rusty I am all for less movement it means I can ski longer then

I understand the ten toes exersise now thanks for the explanation. Bob Shosick had us at L2 do something verly similar and "box" out our turns.
Imagine starting directly across the fall-line then doing a quarter turn to the right going straight down the hill then doing a quarter turn to the right again normal transtion to the left then repeat. Kinda of what you are describing.

I wish I had some video of me skiing powder, this sounds weird considering my roots in Pa, but I feel much more comfortable in powder deeper the better. I know I am not defensive it and thats why.

keep it coming bears
post #13 of 25
Ten toes is an image for skiing steep terrain that I first heard mentioned by Eric DesLauriers -- which happens for the instant he calls the moment of truth. "If you pass through this moment with good balance, you will make a beautifully carved turn and have good control, but if you rush it by over-steering your skis into the turn, or if you delay by shying away from the fall line, then you will skid and lose control." (p. 105, Ski the Whole Mountain)
post #14 of 25
[quote=BushwackerinPA]Well Rusty wow those are some really good ideas. ....Rusty I am all for less movement it means I can ski longer then ....Bob Shosick had us at L2 do something verly similar and "box" out our turns....
I wish I had some video of me skiing powder, ....I know I am not defensive quote]
Your welcome BW,

I've been fortunate enough to steal from the best, Shostek included. ... I'm not talking about less movement as much as I'm talking about smoother movements. ... I've done the box exercise. It is similar, but it makes you think about mechanics more than 10 toes does. It's more of a tear it apart and put it back together exercise. ... I used to feel the same about powder until I found Montana Muck (why isn't anyone skiing this beautiful untracked - oh - that's why), Sierra Cement (must ... make ... feet ... turn), sudden bottomless in Sun Valley (why are all these people stopped here looking miserable - oh my god - do not stop, do not slow, goodbye suckers!) and neck deep in the Alps (this is REALLY cool but I'm choking on it and it is rediculously not safe). All powder is not created equal. Your first time in a "new" powder will definitely make you defensive until you find the proper adjustments. But I do know what you mean. I thought I could ski good until I came back East and started teaching on hardpack.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
I wish I had some video of me skiing powder, this sounds weird considering my roots in Pa, but I feel much more comfortable in powder deeper the better.
I find that bumps, steeps and powder all seem to aid me in pressuring the boot. It seems so much easier to get centered and to be in the proper position to 'get' the turn. On flatter stuff, it seems that my cm falls back just a bit and makes me late with the turn.
post #16 of 25
I like how he did it.But do you have the continuation of the video?
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
thats all the video I have of me from snowbird at least. I ripped it from an 18 minute DVD a friend made
post #18 of 25
Ok thanks.Can I see it also the 18 minute DVD?
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
give me sometime I put in up on youtube
post #20 of 25
My pal SCSA/Heyoka/Paul says "Sometimes it's just going to be ugly!"
I would add: ...until you get better. Just be aware that there ARE some people who can make ski snow like that as easily as the sweetest courduroy, but don't feel too bad that you can't do it....yet.
post #21 of 25
Good skiing.

For my 2cents worth, I would want to (to start with) work with you on fore-aft balance, specifically not letting your outside foot get caught behind in Phase 3 of the turn.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by veeeight
Good skiing.

For my 2cents worth, I would want to (to start with) work with you on fore-aft balance, specifically not letting your outside foot get caught behind in Phase 3 of the turn.
I would agree here. The video is shot pretty far away so I was having problems picking somethings up. But what I saw was pretty good skiing for conditions like this and us easterners tend to fall into old habits to rescue our skiing when we get into unfamiliar situations out west.

But, like veeeight I think I see a for/aft balance issue. I believe the pop you have is a sympton of your hips dropping farther back in the turn as you progress through it. Now your hips are back at the end of the turn and you need to get that CM going into the new turn. So you pop up and you are stepping into the new turn with you new inside ski.

Again I the video is shot far away and I am having problems picking it up. But you may be blocking with your pole plant which is shoving your hips back at the beginning of the turn. You are compensating for this and almost using jump turns.

Press those hips forward, show your belly button to the new turn and like the others said think "ten toes". Patient turns are in order here.

But really the skiing looked great and it looked like a lot of fun which in the end of the day that is what it is all about.

Just my .02. I would love to hear from others that might disagree with me.

Cheers

Ed
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Agree with everything you said Powdigger, but pressing hips forward is something I allways look to do but in this stuff I had already had been doing this in the morning but by the time the snow was sticky I did the good ' old over the handlebars move when I was forward. Face plants = no fun. Unless they are in fresh powder.

I relize yes too I am nitpicking myself(I can ski nearly anything at snowbird just want to look more fluid doing it) but I want to be the best I can be, so I keep pounding away, and keep asking for MA of any video that people take of me.

I will work on being patient next year, but I wont see conditions like this to well next May.
post #24 of 25
Cool, but being nitpicky is how you got certified. Furthermore, the fact that you understand when you are not doing something right is of great benefit to you. You will correct your movements much faster. Pay attention to the new inside foot or as some say the Little Toe Edge (LTE) of the outside ski. Make sure that you are balanced and in position to get an early inside edge. Start those turns with a move to the LTE and watch that pop disappear. Work with your level III trainers who are staying current and you should be able to get rid of that movement rather quickly.

Cheers

Ed
post #25 of 25

A Canuck perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
For late season at Snowbird, this skiing will get you around just fine. It's hard to do it in softer snow and on steeper slopes, but slowing down your change of lateral direction will add more power to your skiing. At 20 seconds (the first close up), you can see the quick change of direction. In the last clip, you can see a little pop upwards to initiate the turn. I see these as symptoms of the same thing. As Slatz has said, if you use cross over to get your skis onto their new edges earlier in the turn, they will give you more turning power so that you won't need to pop up or turn the the skis quickly into and out of the fall line. One back door exercise that helps you with this is Ten Toes. Think about getting all ten toes pointed down the fall line before turning out of it.
I agree with what rusty is saying here and I agree that it's pretty darn good skiing too but I would take a slightly different approach.

I think the "popping" movement at the start of your turn has a lot to do with what veeeight has noticed that's happening at the end of your turn, the downhill foot trailing behind, the pop is used as a recentering tool. Usually when I see popping at the start of the turn I look to see what's happening with the lower body. In your case what I notice is the C.O.M. leads the effort in your crossover. A stronger turning effort with the lower body creating some separation and placing your feet in a position to first "deflect" and then "catch" your mass will help leave you in a better balanced state at the end of the turn. This will also make it easier for you to move into the next turn without popping because you will be balanced throughout the turn previous.

When your mass moves without your feet or your feet move without your mass you're left with no other option but to do something to help bring them back together to regain balance. So, in my opinion the pop is the symptom and partially the cause of this problem. To fix it I would suggest thinking of starting the turning effort with the legs to establish a better platform right from the beginning of the turn, then using rusty's idea of Ten Toes to have some more patience and stronger balance in the fall line, then continuing to steer and maintaining a bit of separation through the bottom of the turn by turning your legs so that your feet come back underneath your mass and you're not throwing your mass across your feet. Then start the process all over again!

That's my $0.02 anyway.
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