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A simple (stupid?) question

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I just bought a pair of new skis on Ebay. The listing indicated that the skis came with bindings, but said nothing one way or the other about mounting the bindings. I received the skis today and the bindings were not mounted. Is that what I should have expected? (I didn't.) This is only the second pair of new skis I've bought. The others were also bought on Ebay, two years ago, and the seller offered to, and did, mount the bindings before sending the skis to me. Is it the norm to expect that, absent an indication that the bindings will be mounted, new skis and bindings will come with the bindings not mounted?
post #2 of 24
Basically, you'd want nice clean, not drilled, skis with separate bindings. That way you mount your bindings using your own boots and there's no guessing by someone on the other side of the Internet. Take them to a good local shop that sells the brand of bindings you have and be willing to pay for them to be mounted.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
Basically, you'd want nice clean, not drilled, skis with separate bindings.
That's what I got. Skis new in the wrapper, bindings in a box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
That way you mount your bindings using your own boots and there's no guessing by someone on the other side of the Internet.
The last time the seller indicated my boot length was sufficient to enable proper mounting of the bindings. They seemed OK to me when I skiied on them, but maybe there was some deficiency that I didn't appreciate. For my education, might that be the case and, if so, what would I look for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
Take them to a good local shop that sells the brand of bindings you have and be willing to pay for them to be mounted.
I'll do that. But what is the problem with going to just any good shop, as opposed to one that sells the brand of bindings I have? Again, for my education.

Thanks for the information.
post #4 of 24
If a shop doesn't have the right jig for that binding, they can't mount it. They also need to be certified by the binding manufacturer so they are indemnified for their work.
post #5 of 24
Bring them, along with your boots to your local ski shop and have them do the work properly. It will be the best $50.00 insurance policy that you will buy.
post #6 of 24
From what you said about your other pair of skis, you better bring them in for a check too. It sounded to me like you got the skis out of the box and then went out and skied on them. Safety first, get em checked by a pro.
post #7 of 24
Just out of curiosity, what kind of skis and bindings did you get? Do they require mounting, or are they a component set? I agree with what was said above. This seller is simply doing this right. Bindings should be mounted to the specific boot and release checked. Bindings taht are mounted to the approximate sole length can be consumer adjusted, but I think that violates the indemnity agreement between the vendor and distributor, and most consumers lack knowlege of making the proper adjustments.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones
From what you said about your other pair of skis, you better bring them in for a check too. It sounded to me like you got the skis out of the box and then went out and skied on them. Safety first, get em checked by a pro.
I got the bindings adjusted for my boots and the skis waxed before I went out and skiied on them. It's all moot now, though: those skis got trashed this April when I totaled my vehicle on the way up to Lake Tahoe.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Just out of curiosity, what kind of skis and bindings did you get? Do they require mounting, or are they a component set? I agree with what was said above. This seller is simply doing this right. Bindings should be mounted to the specific boot and release checked. Bindings taht are mounted to the approximate sole length can be consumer adjusted, but I think that violates the indemnity agreement between the vendor and distributor, and most consumers lack knowlege of making the proper adjustments.
I bought a pair of Rossignol 9x Power Pulsion skis with Axial 100 Pro Binding. I realize these skis may be over my head, but I really intend to focus on skiing a lot, getting some instruction, and getting better in coming years, focusing in particular on learning to carve (and that's what I understand these skis are good for). (I also have a pair of used, lower skill level skis that I can use as needed.)

I should add, I'm not really complaining about the bindings not being mounted. I was just expecting something else, based on my one past experience (of course, I should have remembered that I'd have to give my boot size) and, admittedly, my ignorance, so I was curious as to what the norm is.
post #10 of 24
Woodstocksez, you have now experienced the two different ways that Internet sellers sell skis. If you prefer one way over another, you'll want to ask. I do not think that it's wrong or bad for a seller to mount bindings without having the boots (that's what standards are for), but they are taking a bit of a chance. The more proper way (and the way the indemnity agreements with the manufacturers read), is to send you the two separately so that you'll have them mounted by a competent tech.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez
I bought a pair of Rossignol 9x Power Pulsion skis with Axial 100 Pro Binding. I realize these skis may be over my head,...
This will be good gear to perfect carving skills on, where will you ski?

Cheers,

Michael
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrettscv
This will be good gear to perfect carving skills on, where will you ski?

Cheers,

Michael
I've been skiing at a variety of places in Lake Tahoe, but I'm pretty sure that next year I will buy a pass for Kirkwood. I went there for the first time this year and from my house in Milpitas (adjacent to San Jose in the Bay Area) I made it in something under 3 hours (2:45 maybe). My wife does not ski at all - yet - and my son just turned 2 at the end of February, so the "quick" jaunt up to Kirkwood lends itself well to single day trips on a Saturday or Sunday or both. At other times during the winter, we'll take longer family trips and for those I'll probably try to ski at other places. I really liked Alpine Meadows when I went there this year (I wasn't crazy about it 2 years ago, but I think that was a function of the groomed runs being really bumpy on that day ... I don't ski bumps - yet). I'll probably try to get to Sugar Bowl as well and some of the other places as whim strikes. Some days, I may opt for one of the smaller hills around Tahoe with the idea of maybe trying to get my son on skis a bit. We did snow play this year (he loved it) and his mother and I pulled him around some on a little pair of plastic skis down near the lodge. We also let him tromp around the living room on them some as well. And he gets so excited whenever he sees snow or skis on my computer screen. So I think next year may be OK to gently get him started. We'll see.

I'm actually thinking of driving over to Mammoth for a couple of days this month before they close. My winter got cut short with my car wreck (I hadn't skiied all that much before then and I had several trips planned), but now that I have skis and a vehicle again, I may try some summer skiing. Depends a lot on how my work goes.
post #13 of 24
Woodstocksez, I'd like to suggest that you really consider attending one of the ESA events this coming winter. Details coming shortly, but one of them is in Tahoe.

...make sure you have chains and know how to use them. I ran chains for what seemed like ages one day on the way to Kirkwood, only to get turned back by a slide across the road. But, you still need 'em.
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez
I've been skiing at a variety of places in Lake Tahoe, but I'm pretty sure that next year I will buy a pass for Kirkwood. I went there for the first time this year and from my house in Milpitas (adjacent to San Jose in the Bay Area) I made it in something under 3 hours (2:45 maybe). My wife does not ski at all - yet - and my son just turned 2 at the end of February, so the "quick" jaunt up to Kirkwood lends itself well to single day trips on a Saturday or Sunday or both. At other times during the winter, we'll take longer family trips and for those I'll probably try to ski at other places. I really liked Alpine Meadows when I went there this year (I wasn't crazy about it 2 years ago, but I think that was a function of the groomed runs being really bumpy on that day ... I don't ski bumps - yet). I'll probably try to get to Sugar Bowl as well and some of the other places as whim strikes. Some days, I may opt for one of the smaller hills around Tahoe with the idea of maybe trying to get my son on skis a bit. We did snow play this year (he loved it) and his mother and I pulled him around some on a little pair of plastic skis down near the lodge. We also let him tromp around the living room on them some as well. And he gets so excited whenever he sees snow or skis on my computer screen. So I think next year may be OK to gently get him started. We'll see.

I'm actually thinking of driving over to Mammoth for a couple of days this month before they close. My winter got cut short with my car wreck (I hadn't skiied all that much before then and I had several trips planned), but now that I have skis and a vehicle again, I may try some summer skiing. Depends a lot on how my work goes.
Well this brings ups another topic on which I'm interested to hear others' experiences. I'm inclined to be a bit of a scofflaw (and daredevil? fool?) when it comes to using chains. They seem like such a hassle. I replaced my previous 4WD 4Runner (the one that got totalled) with another 4WD Runner. This one seems a bit beefier, e.g., 17" tires instead of 15" (I should hasten to add that I am not a car guy, so what effect tire size - or other vehicle attributes - really has, I'm not especially confident to say, though I think in many cases I can guess). Anyway, I was staying in Incline Village two Januarys ago during that weekend that was supposed to be the heaviest snow in quite some time. My 4Runner did just fine. It's certainly true that they don't mess around with snow removal in Incline Village; they're on top of it. But even so there was pretty good ground coverage on a number of occasions and my 4Runner seemed to do just fine. I understand that there are times when chains are required even if you have 4WD, but as a practical matter, how important/helpful do people think chains really are?
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Oops. Somehow I replied to me instead of ssh. But I'll bet you guys can figure it out.
post #16 of 24
I used to carry chains in the 4X4, but only used them when I had to plow. As a practical matter, roads close before R3 chain control is implemented. Especially if you must get past Carson Spur. That always closes during heavy snow and wind loading for avalanche control.
Hwy 88 does not perform chain inspection stations very offen, they just swing the signs. Its not a bad idea to carry a sleeping bag, food and water in the winter, just in case. You can get stranded at Kirkwood.

You don't like bumps, but you know Kirkwood does very little grooming, and has lots of off-piste tough terrain, and only one high speed chair lift. (I don't count Timber Creek). How does that work out for you? Resorts with more grooming include Sugar Bowl, Sierra, Heavenly; and all of those also have good off-piste and out of bounds and reasonable pass prices.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
I used to carry chains in the 4X4, but only used them when I had to plow. As a practical matter, roads close before R3 chain control is implemented. Especially if you must get past Carson Spur. That always closes during heavy snow and wind loading for avalanche control.
Hwy 88 does not perform chain inspection stations very offen, they just swing the signs. Its not a bad idea to carry a sleeping bag, food and water in the winter, just in case. You can get stranded at Kirkwood.

You don't like bumps, but you know Kirkwood does very little grooming, and has lots of off-piste tough terrain, and only one high speed chair lift. (I don't count Timber Creek). How does that work out for you? Resorts with more grooming include Sugar Bowl, Sierra, Heavenly; and all of those also have good off-piste and out of bounds and reasonable pass prices.
Doesn't Kirkwood have a combo pass deal with Sugar Bowl? Maybe I should go that route.

I haven't been to Sierra yet (that was on the agenda for the trip in which I totalled the 4Runner on the way up). I just checked Yahoo, and though Sierra is 25 or so miles further from my house, the Yahoo driving time is almost the same (both of which are way more than I or anyone else under the age of 80 would take). (No flames from oldsters, please. I love 80+ people. I really do. Well, not in THAT way, of course. I just mean - Hey, I got some new skis Thursday! Or, as my son would say, "thskisth." Does that mean he's gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that. I love gay people. I really do. I mean, not in THAT way. But - Hey, I got some new skis Thursday!) Driving time isn't all, but it is a consideration if I'm going to get a pass. Anyway, I intend to give Sierra a try some time next winter.
post #18 of 24
As long as you remember that the vast majority of cars off the side of the road during a storm when the chain law is in place are 4WD, I think you're good. Most folks don't get that 4WD doesn't mean, "Won't slip." :

A combo pass would give you a nice pair of options... Up to Kirkwood when you can/want to, over to Sugar Bowl when I-80 is the better choice. Also, you could get a lesson from an EpicSki Bear at Sugar Bowl... our own dchan works out of there.
post #19 of 24
Chains not only give you more traction, they keep you out of the ditches by forcing you to slow down.
Almost forgot. Take the skis to your local shop and have them mounted, even if it's easy enough for you to bolt together at home, it's cheap peace of mind.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez
Well this brings ups another topic on which I'm interested to hear others' experiences. I'm inclined to be a bit of a scofflaw (and daredevil? fool?) when it comes to using chains. They seem like such a hassle. I replaced my previous 4WD 4Runner (the one that got totalled) with another 4WD Runner. This one seems a bit beefier, e.g., 17" tires instead of 15" (I should hasten to add that I am not a car guy, so what effect tire size - or other vehicle attributes - really has, I'm not especially confident to say, though I think in many cases I can guess). Anyway, I was staying in Incline Village two Januarys ago during that weekend that was supposed to be the heaviest snow in quite some time. My 4Runner did just fine. It's certainly true that they don't mess around with snow removal in Incline Village; they're on top of it. But even so there was pretty good ground coverage on a number of occasions and my 4Runner seemed to do just fine. I understand that there are times when chains are required even if you have 4WD, but as a practical matter, how important/helpful do people think chains really are?
I live in snow country, so I speak from experience. 4WD with regular M&S tires is better than 2WD, but not when it comes to braking or steering. One must either have real winter tires or have chains when conditions warrent. For you, I would suggest always carry chains in the Sierras. FYI it is a $90 ticket to be caught without chains in the Sierras in winter and you could be turned back. I have a Subaru and a set of real snow tires. Haven't needed chains ever, but carry them to make the CHP happy. I run snow tires from December through March. Two sets of wheels. H rated snow tires.

Ya never know when you could need them. Kinda like seatbelts, if you know what I mean. :
post #21 of 24
Hwy 88 closed first and more often because it is the highest trans-Sierra highway that remains open in winter. Miles on Hwy 88 are much longer than miles on 50 or 80.

I bought a Nissan Murano this year. It has AWD and vehicle dynamic control. The VDC engages the antilock breaks in a diagonal patternto correct the vehicle from plowing or fishtailing in corners. It works. Going to Kirkwood on the backroads, I hit black ice a number of times this year. The first time in the Subaru it felt like I had a flat tire, I would turn the wheel, and response was severely delayed (plowing). The ice was invisible, and I actually pulled over to check tire inflation.

Later in the season, I was going up under severe ice conditions in the Murano. I felt the car get out of line, the the computer correction immediately pulled it back in. Damn thing is smarter than me. In open parking lots at Sierra I purposely tried to put the vehicle into a spin. I accellerated hard and turned the wheel hard, but the car tracked, then I jerked the wheel back the other way. All I could do was drift the turn. Now I have no doubt that many drivers will overcome all the technology being put into cars, but this is a far cry from the 1999 GMC Yukon or older Jeep Cherokees I used to drive. I still say, with a 4X4 I was never asked to show chains, and the roads closed before R-3 was imposed. Also, I think you can do serious harm to today's computer controlled AWDs with chains. There are severe warnings about mismatched tires and chain use on some of these vehicles.

And so, we have now turned "A simple (stupid) question" into a car thread for the techno nerds .
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
Basically, you'd want nice clean, not drilled, skis with separate bindings. That way you mount your bindings using your own boots and there's no guessing by someone on the other side of the Internet. Take them to a good local shop that sells the brand of bindings you have and be willing to pay for them to be mounted.
I forgot to ask: can anyone recommend a good shop in the San Jose area? I've previously been to Helm of Sun Valley to have bindings adjusted for boots (seemed OK to me, but what do I know) and to get a wax (again, seemed OK to me, but ...), and to Mel Cotton's for a wax (on which I never skiied, that coming just before the trip in April on which I totalled my vehicle). I imagine most shops can do a good job, but the thread (http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=41570) about the problem someone had with their bindings being mounted poorly indicates that bad things can happen and I'd obviously like to minimize the chance of that happening. My equipment is Rossignol 9x Power Pulsion skis with Axial 100 Pro Binding.
post #23 of 24
Hi -

1) Reputable online stores use same jigs and templates as bricks and mortar shops, and will mount according to your specs (sole length on side of boot in mm), even in front of or behind factory line. (You still need to have a shop check settings.) But either e or b&m can mess up a mount (see other threads), so with either source you need to check rep of store. And as CR says, safer either way with integrated system. Suggest you search these forums for particular stores others trust.

2) I also own a 4-Runner (great snow car), agree with others that dedicated winter tires are a better solution than chains or "all weathers." Chains can suck on those sudden patches of icy pavement I-80 mixes with pack, since contact area determines braking friction, all other things equal. And one of the car mags, think Road and Track, ran a piece this winter comparing performance of all weather tires vs snow tires on all wheel/4 wheel drives. No contest.

3) Can't say about San Jose, but consider SierraJim's place alongside the I-80 in Sacramento (search threads here for his website). Have CA friends who have purchased skis, boots from him, said best they've come across. I've purchased from him online, no probs.
post #24 of 24
If you want to do it in San Jose, Helm is one of the better shops (I actually worked there for a couple of years back in the '80s!). The other one I remember doesn't seem to be in the phone books, and I can't remember the name! :

REI is probably pretty decent, too. The best will be Sierra Jim's or Snowind (in Reno), both owners of which are active members here on EpicSki.
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