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What's your preference?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I've recently had cause to bring this up, more for my personal use than anything.

What I'd like to know is this. When you are out skiing, do you prefer to keep a somewhat countered (or very countered) stance? Or do you prefer to keep the upper torso somewhat square to the skis?

Now let's remove things like bump tactics, steeps, etc., and stick with skiing in a "compulsory" form. Comfortable terrain, groomed, shmedium turns (Long-ish Short turns), arcing or carving.

Definitions:

COUNTERED - Upper body tends to face down hill at all (or most) times.

SQUARE - Upper body tend to face the skis' current direction of travel. (As well as possible.)

Maybe I'll let on why I want to know later on. This has been talked about nearly to death in other threads, so I think we can be concise here.
post #2 of 21
Countered"ish", not in a Frankenstein-belly button dead down the hill all the time-no flow-sort of way
post #3 of 21
Steep/Short Turns: counterd
Less Steep/Medium-Long Turns: Square

But, I'm no expert.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiDeC58
But, I'm no expert.
Have I got the book for you.
post #5 of 21
For comfortable terrain, groomed, shmedium turns (Long-ish Short turns), arcing or carving I prefer to be more square to the ski. It feels less contrived than countered. However, I have been told that I should get a little more counter in my hips.
post #6 of 21
I used to ski very square to the skis, but they were always pointed straigth down the fall line too.

Now a days, I have a progression from almost square for long radius turns (longer than gs) to countered for slalom-ish turns. I only get very countered when doing it on purpose, and i feel like an over-worked washing machine when I do.
post #7 of 21
Body down the fall line. Here, the trails are narrow so it's not a choice.

If I was ever on one of those big bowl traverses, I'd probably take an nap.
post #8 of 21
Short turns-Countered toward the apex of the next turn.
Long turns- Square (almost)
post #9 of 21

turns countered/square

In fall line going straight down the hill - countered
Cruising, big s.g. turns or straight - square
post #10 of 21
I do what needs to be done to maintain proper balance and ski-snow contact throughout each of my turns, while still making smooth, efficient, and powerful turns. In most short radius turns counter is a must. It becomes less and less as the radius becomes larger.
Later
GREG
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 

Sweet!

OK I time to modify...

Is the countering something you are contriving by turning the body over the legs? (ie. Keeping the chest facing down the hill.) Or is it occurring because you are turning the legs under the body?

I want to know what sorts of triggers or focuses (Foci? Focus-ees?) people use to differentiate.
post #12 of 21
That might be an interesting topic for another thread Spag...
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious Spag
OK I time to modify...

Is the countering something you are contriving by turning the body over the legs? (ie. Keeping the chest facing down the hill.) Or is it occurring because you are turning the legs under the body?

I want to know what sorts of triggers or focuses (Foci? Focus-ees?) people use to differentiate.
It's all in the hips....
post #14 of 21
here's what i tell folks.

1) a counter is a good place to clean fish
2) we can be too square, or over rotated, as well as too seperated.
3) a little torque/tension building at the end of the turn doesn't hurt.
4) thinking about the last third of any turn. if a skier had a arrow shot through their back, it should never point outside the apex of their next turn. in other words, regardless of the type of turn or turn radius, the tips may point outside the next apex via continued turning, however, the arrow would not.
5) from an appropriate position....not countered and not over rotated a smooth release can occur with one's c.o.m. headed in the desired direction.

folk-eye?

i fight being too square. if i focus on where i'm headed next then i seem to be able to have a nice strong inside half. pole boxes get my hands in a good spot and create just the right amount of seperation. the two best skiers i know begin every run with one or two double pole plants. i do this and blend appropriate hand positioning with a desire to move my c.o.m. towards my next turn apex. i think GO.........THERE.......NOW
post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Does maybe a good portion of what I am asking have to do with a skier's INTENT? Where am I sending my CM next? How do I make it go there?

In which case, the answer is "It depends"?

This could easily shatter into a few different threads, I agree.
post #16 of 21
I ski into a slightly countered position in longer turns and maintain a countered position in short turns, as appropriate for the terrain, by unconscious intent. I spent a long time making upper/lower separation automatic.
post #17 of 21
Usually countered, because I'm letting the skis turn my legs under my body. I let the skis turn my upper body too if I'm turning a long way across the fall line (you only have about 100 degrees of rotation in your femurs) or if the turn is long enough that my CM needs to make a big movement across the hill. The question is really, given where I am going, is it more efficient to just let my CM keep moving down the hill, or do I want it to move across the hill?
post #18 of 21
On the first question I'd say it depends on turn type.

For Open Parallel, I find my 'counter' is a bit deliberate and contrived - because the continuously skidding skis are more prone to 'snap back' in alignment (square to me) without a bit of conscious effort. For Dynamic Parallel, the firmly engaged turning skis create all my counter for me.

For short turns I let more counter develop and often need to assist with some minor, but deliberate effort to develop sufficient counter. For longer turns I just let the skis create all of it and add no assistance.

'Course, there are times on larger radius turns I like to pre-counter deliberately & early - sort of 'turning to face uphill' at initiation, then leaning over backwards into the new turn. Not saying it's 'right', just fun...

.ma
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
4) thinking about the last third of any turn. if a skier had a arrow shot through their back, it should never point outside the apex of their next turn. in other words, regardless of the type of turn or turn radius, the tips may point outside the next apex via continued turning, however, the arrow would not.
I admit that this made me a bit queasy just reading it, but I get your point.

The double-pole plant idea is one I'm going to have to try.

For me, I try to limit the angle of my body to the skis, but I do my best to stay "pointed" pretty much in the direction my COM is heading...
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
I admit that this made me a bit queasy just reading it, but I get your point.
.......but I get your point ?

OUCH !
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious Spag
OK I time to modify...

Is the countering something you are contriving by turning the body over the legs? (ie. Keeping the chest facing down the hill.) Or is it occurring because you are turning the legs under the body?

I want to know what sorts of triggers or focuses (Foci? Focus-ees?) people use to differentiate.
NS,

It is occurring because you are turning the legs under the body. I tried to shed some light on this in a new thread....
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