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Done with the demo's

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
First post and I wanted to mentioned how solid of a forum this seems to be. I've spent the past few days reading and I'm impressed.

I'm trying to make a decision on a new set of boards and I have it narrowed down to 3 - K2 Outlaw, Rosi B3, and Fischer AMC 79. I am a level 8 skiier in my early 30's - 6'2 - 215#'s and I average 20 days on West Coast Mt.'s. I enjoy the whole mountain, seek the powder with friends (Heather Canyon on Hood, Blackcomb Glacier at Whistler, Northwest chair at Bachelor, ect), but ski the tame with family.

I spent the whole season riding demo boards on a new pair of Nordica Beast boots (which I love dearly). I have skiied each of the following for a minimum of a 1/2 day:

Rosi B3 (176 and 184)
K2 Outlaw (181)
Volkl AC4 (177)
Fischer AMC 79 (180 something)
Dynastar Legend 8000 (178 something)
Line Prophet 80 (180 something)
Rosi B2 (180 something)

The Outlaw seemed to fit my bill the best with the B3 a close second. The Fischer made the group because I had such a blast making turns on it in the groomers one day and then found it functional in 6" of fresh the next.

At first I was sure the B3 was my ski, but then heard so many neagatives regarding the foam core breaking down and with my size I was encouraged to look else where. I really enjoyed how the ski turned and floated in the crud. I felt much more solid on the 184.

I skiied the Outlaw last this season and was treated with sureal conditions on April 17 at Hood. It took me a few runs to make it turn as quick as I wanted (I never really made it turn nicely in the bumps), but once I felt strong I really liked the ski and believed it was in it's element on Hood. I didn't get to ski it on any true groomers, but I have no doubt I could make it work well for me there as well.

My questions: Is anything changing on the Outlaw for 2007? How is the Outlaw on a hardpack day? Are the B3 foam core issues overstated or as a bigger skiier should I heed the warnings? Is Fischer coming out with a wider AMC because at 79 I'm not sure it is going to be enough in powder over 6"?

I really appreciate any responses - as a true gear dork I can't get enough info. Thanks! What a snow year we have had here in Oregon!
post #2 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchpdx
Rosi B3 (176 and 184)
K2 Outlaw (181)
Volkl AC4 (177)
Fischer AMC 79 (180 something)
Dynastar Legend 8000 (178 something)
Line Prophet 80 (180 something)
Rosi B2 (180 something)
Cool, a demo list with nary a Metron, be careful friend, the B5 inquisition may flame you as a heretic.

Welcome to epicski, it seems you have the requisite fanaticism.:
post #3 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Cool, a demo list with nary a Metron, be careful friend, the B5 inquisition may flame you as a heretic.

Welcome to epicski, it seems you have the requisite fanaticism.:
I agree, awesome list and not really a bad choice on there. As far as no Metrons...no need. Where I see a ski missing is the Sweet Daddy.
post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchpdx
First post and I wanted to mentioned how solid of a forum this seems to be. I've spent the past few days reading and I'm impressed.

I'm trying to make a decision on a new set of boards and I have it narrowed down to 3 - K2 Outlaw, Rosi B3, and Fischer AMC 79. I am a level 8 skiier in my early 30's - 6'2 - 215#'s and I average 20 days on West Coast Mt.'s. I enjoy the whole mountain, seek the powder with friends (Heather Canyon on Hood, Blackcomb Glacier at Whistler, Northwest chair at Bachelor, ect), but ski the tame with family.

I spent the whole season riding demo boards on a new pair of Nordica Beast boots (which I love dearly). I have skiied each of the following for a minimum of a 1/2 day:

Rosi B3 (176 and 184)
K2 Outlaw (181)
Volkl AC4 (177)
Fischer AMC 79 (180 something)
Dynastar Legend 8000 (178 something)
Line Prophet 80 (180 something)
Rosi B2 (180 something)

The Outlaw seemed to fit my bill the best with the B3 a close second. The Fischer made the group because I had such a blast making turns on it in the groomers one day and then found it functional in 6" of fresh the next.

At first I was sure the B3 was my ski, but then heard so many neagatives regarding the foam core breaking down and with my size I was encouraged to look else where. I really enjoyed how the ski turned and floated in the crud. I felt much more solid on the 184.

I skiied the Outlaw last this season and was treated with sureal conditions on April 17 at Hood. It took me a few runs to make it turn as quick as I wanted (I never really made it turn nicely in the bumps), but once I felt strong I really liked the ski and believed it was in it's element on Hood. I didn't get to ski it on any true groomers, but I have no doubt I could make it work well for me there as well.

My questions: Is anything changing on the Outlaw for 2007? How is the Outlaw on a hardpack day? Are the B3 foam core issues overstated or as a bigger skiier should I heed the warnings? Is Fischer coming out with a wider AMC because at 79 I'm not sure it is going to be enough in powder over 6"?

I really appreciate any responses - as a true gear dork I can't get enough info. Thanks! What a snow year we have had here in Oregon!
The foam core issue is likely overstated. You will have a 2-year warranty on the ski, and generaly, anything bad that happens to a ski happens in its first year. The Legends you tried were too short for you, the next size up would have been much more stable and more appropriate. All skis you tried are good.
post #5 of 22
DON'T BUY BEFORE trying the Dynastar Legend 8000 and the AC in 184 sizes. The 178 is too short for your weight.
post #6 of 22
Head IM82......try them, try them, you will see....... 122-82-107 laminate sandwich construction,
post #7 of 22
Some good choices. If you spend more time off piste than on, I'd go with the Outlaw. But if you spend equal or less time off piste, I'd consider the AC4 or Legend in a 184CM.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
I liked the AC4's, but I'm not sure I ski far enough forward to carve the ski they way it is designed. I also felt like the tips dove more in the soft stuff than the Outlaws and the B3's. In the less deep the ski did turn nicely and had some pop - I should have tried the 184's, but both days I was on them the 184's were already taken.

I had a rough day on the Dynastars. I was really looking forward to skiing them, but for whatever reason - legs, tune, style, they didn't feel good at all - again maybe I would have liked them better at 184.

I have a fairly neutral stance without a ton of ankle flexion. Plenty of strength, just not rubbery flexible. I do get in the backseat when I'm sloppy and the AC4's threw me out of it hard a few times and made me feel like a clown.

Good suggestions - Is there any info on the 2007 Outlaws?
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchpdx
Good suggestions - Is there any info on the 2007 Outlaws?
They will be the same, but it will be really hard to find them flat, w/o bindings.
I would just pick up what you like, now!
post #10 of 22
I'm similiar to you in stature...I'm in my early 30's, 5'10", 205lbs, level 7-8 (sometimes a 6: ), 20+ days per season (although until this season I've only skiid a few times in the last 5 years. I've got 19 days as of now this season). It also appears that we ski the same mountains. I ski the B3 as well as a Bandit X. I spend about 60% on piste and 40% off.

The big difference between me and you is that due to a non-skiing related knee injury I avoid bumps like the plague even though I do like catching air.

I haven't had any issues w/the skis from a mechanical point (none of that foam core scare here) and absolutely love the B3.

The only downside is that on groomers while skiing with less adventerous friends/wife/kids I wish I had a more dedicated carver which I'm going to get next season.

My Bandit X's were a good improvement over my Rossi Mt. Viper X's, but loss a little high speed stability. The B3's, at least for me, are plenty stable at high speed, but absolutely exude confidence in powder/junk snow/mash potatoes, etc.

I use to be a big K2 fan back in the 80's, but haven't been on any of thier new gear and I'm now put off by the whole 'made in China' thing.

I'm also a Dynastar fan and would like to demo the legend 8000 and 8800 which to my understanding has a more 'lively' feel than the B3.

Hope this helped a bit.

Since we seem to hang out at same mountains we should hookup sometime...I only have a couple ski buddies out here who are decent skiiers, but not as adventerous as I would like to be.
post #11 of 22
I skied lots of different skis the past couple years before deciding on the B3. They are good balance between being too lively and being too damp for my style of skiing. I wasn't worried one bit about the foam core having skied Rossignol skis with foam cores for over 3 decades without ever having a problem. I'm 5' 11", 180# and bought the 176cm length. I have used them to bomb empty runs a Big Sky & still haven't found their upper speed limit.

PS - I did try the Legend 8000 & 8800 which I found to be livelier but not as forgiving in moguls or heavy crud piles.
post #12 of 22
tchpdx:

I spend quite a few days each year testing skis. One conclusion that I have reached is that a few mm more or less of waist width are not always definitive in determining soft snow capability. I just skied the AMC 79 on Tuesday in up to about 12" or so of cut up Monday crud. It was great fun, easy and nimble for a 182. The Legend 8000 has the same shape but a more lively feel and is also a great all around choice. While the Outlaw skis well, it is IMO a very soft snow oriented ski as it is quite damp and is a bit challenged by anything firm. In an 88-90mm ski, the '07 Snoop Daddy is really getting my attention and will be getting a lot of laps this spring.

SJ

P.S. The Outlaw is not listed flat at all for '07
post #13 of 22
Another vote for you to try the Head Im 82. In a word- WOW!
Great crud buster, can carve on the groomers and can float in powder.
I also ask you to find Dawgcatching's review in these pages.
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
SJ - I would really like to ski the Snood Daddy and the Monster 88 before the end of the season, but I haven't found them locally (shops or mt.).

As I am in for only one pair of skis I would really like to hear some more imput on how the Outlaws ski the hard pack. Why is a damp ski difficult on hard snow?

Nice to hear the AMC's did well in more snow.

Thanks all for the replys - much more than I expected.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
I agree, awesome list and not really a bad choice on there. As far as no Metrons...no need. Where I see a ski missing is the Sweet Daddy.
Could it be that Phil is widening at the waist? What's next? A Sugar Daddy? A Big Daddy? God forbid a Spatula!!!
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
Could it be that Phil is widening at the waist? What's next? A Sugar Daddy? A Big Daddy? God forbid a Spatula!!!
You know how the winter puts it on!

And just for fun....What? No metron! Are you nuts?
(just kidding)
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchpdx
SJ - I would really like to ski the Snood Daddy and the Monster 88 before the end of the season, but I haven't found them locally (shops or mt.).

As I am in for only one pair of skis I would really like to hear some more imput on how the Outlaws ski the hard pack. Why is a damp ski difficult on hard snow?

Nice to hear the AMC's did well in more snow.

Thanks all for the replys - much more than I expected.
I brought in a Demo early in the 185 & 174 because I am pretty fired up about the ski and wanted some feedback from my regular customers. Plus ,I like it a lot meself............ So far, it is a home run.

A damp ski is not necessarily tough on hard snow but it will often feel a little sluggish compared to a livelier ski in a similar shape. For example, the Snoop feels much quicker and more energetic than the Outlaw. K2's in general are often not exactly best in class as far as grip on very hard snow is concerned. However, the trade off is a smooth "Caddilacy" ride that is a delight for many folks. It is just a matter of taste.

SJ
post #18 of 22

next year's Outlaw

quote:
My questions: Is anything changing on the Outlaw for 2007? How is the Outlaw on a hardpack day? Are the B3 foam core issues overstated or as a bigger skiier should I heed the warnings? Is Fischer coming out with a wider AMC because at 79 I'm not sure it is going to be enough in powder over 6"?

My spec sheet for next season shows the 06/07 Outlaw at 124/88/111. K2 claims that with Titan Technology (titanium mesh sheet), MOD monic damping and the new M1 integrated binding system, the Outlaw is a complete redesign for 06/07. Skis without bindings may not be an option.

Fischer will not offer an AMC wider than 79 mm.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
martino - any ideas how these changes will effect the ski as compared to this years? Where did you find this info? I haven't been able to find anything on the 07's via the web.
post #20 of 22
The marketing dept. may feel it is a complete redesign, but it skis the same to me. (as does the Recon and the Crossfire). Again, this is not a bad thing. If you like this year's ski, you will like next year's equally well. They are not available flat for '07.

SJ
post #21 of 22
K2 2006 K2 Apache Outlaw Ski -

New for this season, the Apache Outlaw is built to assault all the backcountry and soft snow your mountain has to offer. A versatile all mountain machine, the Outlaw is perfectly suited for the expert who takes the occasional on piste venture, but would prefer to make first tracks in powder. With new Titan technology, Mod Monic, and a wider 88 mm waist for softer snow, hold on and let your skis put the mountain in a virtual headlock.




The only difference with the 2007 is the integrated binding. Prompting many shops to order all the left over 2006 models that they can get.
If you want this ski flat, buy them now.
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchpdx
SJ - I would really like to ski the Snood Daddy and the Monster 88 before the end of the season, but I haven't found them locally (shops or mt.).

As I am in for only one pair of skis I would really like to hear some more imput on how the Outlaws ski the hard pack. Why is a damp ski difficult on hard snow?

Nice to hear the AMC's did well in more snow.

Thanks all for the replys - much more than I expected.
I thought the outlaw was great on hardpack, especially for such a wide ski. i ended up with the monster 88 in a 175, but after just getting back from snowbird/alta, i would like a slightly longer ski. So, I'm looking for an outlaw in a 181. If you're interested in a pair of monster 88 175cm with railflex bindings, let me know
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