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178 or 183 For Fischer W.C. GS

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Getting a new pair of Fischer World Cup GS skis, and can not decide on the 178 or the 183 length. Tried both and liked both length's.
I am 5'11", 195 athletic, race Masters.
Please all input is most appreciated, Thanks in advance
post #2 of 14
183 is the only fis legal option of the 2
post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_10
183 is the only fis legal option of the 2
True, but how often does anyone actually care about FIS equipment rules in Masters racing...

Anyhow, the 183 is probably better at your size.
post #4 of 14
Quote:
katabch: Getting a new pair of Fischer World Cup GS skis, and can not decide on the 178 or the 183 length. Tried both and liked both length's.
I am 5'11", 195 athletic, race Masters.
Please all input is most appreciated, Thanks in advance
Quote:
mikey_10: 183 is the only fis legal option of the 2
FIS length rules don't apply to Masters. There is a trend right now to use a longer ski for GS. My coach one of the top Masters in the country is going from 178 to 193 on those same Fischers. I've been using 183s and am going up to either 188 or 193 in the Fischer next fall with the team order. Good luck

- Fossil
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it!
post #6 of 14
sorry - i must be misinterpreting something - the reg sheet i looked at from fis had various equipment categories based on your class of racing: WC, FIS, J, K, Masters, etc.
Are you talking about a different type of masters racing?

an aside: fossil, will the longer skis have the same turning radius?
post #7 of 14
International (FIS) Masters events have equipment requirements. USSA Masters events don't. Unless you're racing at Internationals, it really doesn't matter what you ski.

As for the length, I'd also take in to consideration the types of course sets you see at your resort.
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fossil
FIS length rules don't apply to Masters. There is a trend right now to use a longer ski for GS. My coach one of the top Masters in the country is going from 178 to 193 on those same Fischers. I've been using 183s and am going up to either 188 or 193 in the Fischer next fall with the team order. Good luck

- Fossil
193?? That's intense... They use as short as 190 on the world cup... What kind of courses are you guys skiing?
post #9 of 14
My understanding is that it was the sets at the big events. That group of guys did go over to Alpe d'Huez so maybe it was the international rules as well.

The way I heard it from one of the ladies is that you train at the local hill on soft snow and a course that is alot like a long Nastar then you show up at Sun Valley and it is rock hard man made snow base with a course that is full on NorAm/Worldcup set GS and you want more ski to deal with it.

<digression> In the shop here I've been looking at a pair of Dynastar WCs, not the retail but a pair of the race stock with the massive plate that takes any binding with the gold print of flex numbers etc. They are a 187 priced a $499 which is the only sticking point. If they were $350 I would already own them. They come unfinished not even structured so there is that to deal with but they have such an even flex, perfectly matched and so on. Anyone have experience with that ski?

Othewise I'll wait for the Fisch.

- Fossil
post #10 of 14
Can any of you guys tell me how the Fischers ski? I have yet to find a good review of them... What other skis would you compare them to? Do they feel damp and smooth like an Atomic GS11 WC or stiff and metallic like a Volkl P60? Do they feel relatively long and stiff on flats?
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
Can any of you guys tell me how the Fischers ski? I have yet to find a good review of them... What other skis would you compare them to? Do they feel damp and smooth like an Atomic GS11 WC or stiff and metallic like a Volkl P60? Do they feel relatively long and stiff on flats?
D(C) most of my experience with the Fischers is from an 02-03 set. 156SL and 183GS. This winter I added a pair of 161SL with the plastic tips when my coach offered to sell them. I haven't skied Atomics at all. Have a bit of experience with Volkls but only with the 6 stars.

I would not call the Fischers a very damp ski. They are extremely precise which you expect from a race ski - but also have alot of feedback from the snow surface. Within their precision they are not at all unpredictable. They are always right where you put them no surprises. Yet they will follow your efforts up the scale - that is the more radical an edge angle you use the more they respond accordingly like that is what they are made for.

One element you hear about the Fischer WC is that they are a very burly ski, alot of ski to handle etc. I don't find this to be true at all. If anything they seem very forgiving and easy to ski to me. However one of the guys I race with described them as being too much ski for him and not forgiving enough. He actually showed me how you can remove the middle piece of the plate to allow the ski to flex easier. Of course I had no intention of trying that but it is a point of interest. The catch is that the guy who told me all this races in my class and is a whole lot faster than me so :

I only used the new 161s for an afternoon running SL so far and they were great. Seemed to ski very much like the 156s. Yet if I really skied the 156s for an hour then switched to the 161s differences would probably become apparent. The day I used them I was coming off a pair of 165 Rossis so was not able to draw those distinctions since they were night and day different from the Rossi which is very damp yet has its own unique turning nuances.

One thing missing on the 156s is some sort of reinforcement around the tip and I have whacked them pretty hard with the SPMs taking a chunk out of the top sheet. No delaminations - yet but I fear it is just a matter of time.

Several other guys on my team have gotten the RC thinking that they want that tighter radius for Masters GS and also thinking the full on WC is too burly. I just don't agree with that at all but keep my mouth shut since that is why we have a coach. Our coach BTW is a Fischer rep

I used to use the 183s for freeskiing but now usually use the Rossi 165 SLs or a pair of the Six Stars. The 183s were a real good all mountain ski I thought - even decent in powder or moguls.

One of the problems I have in GS is getting hung up on the chatter marks coming out of the gate where I need to get off the edge and get into the next turn. To me a ski with alot of feedback exacerbates that problem. I find it easier to make that transition with a damper ski or a ski with a big ass damp plate on it. My coach will say it is a matter of getting a bigger angle on the edge with the ski out away from the bod so you slice through the chatter area but I find that very hard to do physically. This may be a problem where I am still being held back by my old fossilized technique. : from the dark ages of hickory and long thongs.

This probably doesn't qualify as a very good review but it is what I know so far. Anyway I took a stab at it and hope it helps. Maybe somebody else can chime in here who uses the Fisch.

- Fossil
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
thanks for all the info I guess I am going to go with the 183cm, its felt great when i skied it this past season, looking forward to getting it in some courses and putting some laps on em.
post #13 of 14
Katabch/D(C)

I have used the 178 WC GS in 04, 05 and 06 versions in Masters racing. I used the 04 version last year and my only reservation with it was it seemed to take a lot of work to start the turn. (This could of course be due to deficiencies in my technique!!!). Once you had it going it was execellent, great bite and very smooth/damp). Based on that ski I can understand how the reviews talked about it being a burly ski.

At the start of this season I changed to the 05 version. It was quite a change, much easier to start the turn and less work to ski, felt like a shorter ski in fact and was also easy to free ski on. In retrospect though I think it may have had less at the top end. A moot point as I managed to bend them fairly early in the season and they were replaced with the 06 version (Props again to Ski Depot of jay, Maine - I had bought them from their e-bay site and they replaced immediately without question, great guys to deal with).
The 06 is without question the best of them all IMHO. Still easy to initiate and absolutely rock solid and smooth through the turn and into the transition. Fantastic edge hold goes without saying.

I also have a pair of P60 GS in a 180 and, while they are also a great ski, they do not (again IMHO) feel like they have quite the top end or smoothness of the Fischer. I have not skied the GS11 so can't compare there.

With regard to the length, I have not found any speed limit on the 178 (The Masters nationals GS at Sunday River was one of the fastest courses I have been through and they worked great) but I am slightly smaller at 5'8" and 165#. I think I would also be happy with the 183 though and would probably go for that next time. Given your numbers Katabch I wouyld definitely say go with the 183. D(C), definitely worth giving the Fischers a try.
post #14 of 14
Katabch/D(C)

I have used the 178 WC GS in 04, 05 and 06 versions in Masters racing. I used the 04 version last year and my only reservation with it was it seemed to take a lot of work to start the turn. (This could of course be due to deficiencies in my technique!!!). Once you had it going it was execellent, great bite and very smooth/damp). Based on that ski I can understand how the reviews talked about it being a burly ski.

At the start of this season I changed to the 05 version. It was quite a change, much easier to start the turn and less work to ski, felt like a shorter ski in fact and was also easy to free ski on. In retrospect though I think it may have had less at the top end. A moot point as I managed to bend them fairly early in the season and they were replaced with the 06 version (Props again to Ski Depot of jay, Maine - I had bought them from their e-bay site and they replaced immediately without question, great guys to deal with).
The 06 is without question the best of them all IMHO. Still easy to initiate and absolutely rock solid and smooth through the turn and into the transition. Fantastic edge hold goes without saying.

I also have a pair of P60 GS in a 180 and, while they are also a great ski, they do not (again IMHO) feel like they have quite the top end or smoothness of the Fischer. I have not skied the GS11 so can't compare there.

With regard to the length, I have not found any speed limit on the 178 (The Masters nationals GS at Sunday River was one of the fastest courses I have been through and they worked great) but I am slightly smaller at 5'8" and 165#. I think I would also be happy with the 183 though and would probably go for that next time. Given your numbers Katabch I wouyld definitely say go with the 183. D(C), definitely worth giving the Fischers a try.
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