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MA Slow Short Turns

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Where and when: Yesterday at Belleayre (closing day)
Conditions: Corn over ice
Years skiing: 30 (4 on shape skis)
Age: 41

I'm just trying to figure out modern two footed technique. Conditions were a little rough yesterday but I think you'll get a pretty good idea of what's going on here.

I should also mention that I forgot my poles.

Thanks for any advice.

http://media.putfile.com/new-71
post #2 of 17
looks good to me, but at that level of skiing you should be using poles.
obviously you can ski without them, but your arms hanging at your sides is not what you're going for, you should be looking to keep them up and in front to you.
the use of poles (not neccessarily a "pole plant", but the motion of it) gets your body in the best position for the turn (pushes your inside arm/shoulder forward, opening your body towards the outside of the turn).

jinx
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
looks good to me, but at that level of skiing you should be using poles.
obviously you can ski without them, but your arms hanging at your sides is not what you're going for, you should be looking to keep them up and in front to you.
the use of poles (not neccessarily a "pole plant", but the motion of it) gets your body in the best position for the turn (pushes your inside arm/shoulder forward, opening your body towards the outside of the turn).

jinx
Jinx, thanks for your response. I forgot to mention that I forgot my poles yesterday (just edited the post). Although, frankly, with poles or without my hand position has always been a problem. Thanks again.
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
^^^
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellensdad
^^^
I'd be glad to comment, but I can't get the video to run. I've watched other Putfiles, but this one doesn't like my computer.
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 

Try this link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson
I'd be glad to comment, but I can't get the video to run. I've watched other Putfiles, but this one doesn't like my computer.
Thanks Kneale, this link may work for you:

http://media.putfile.com/ski-web-59
post #7 of 17
Still no go for me.
post #8 of 17
Ellensdad reposted on Putfile with a windows media version that works for me now. Thanks.

Nice short turns for that terrain, I'd say. Active use of both feet/skis. Good movement into the turns with hips. I wouldn't worry too much about the hands. I suspect that when you ski with poles, they're more quiet. The principal thing is that it looks as though your elbows are in front of your spine and your hands are generally in front of the elbows, so how low they go when not using poles is of little consequence, in my view. You make good angles for the turns with the torso remaining upright and have a good continuity of movement. What happens when you make the same turns on steeper slopes with poles in hand?
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Kneale, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson
What happens when you make the same turns on steeper slopes with poles in hand?
Frankly, I cannot make the same turns on steeper slopes without going back to traditional technique. I have a problem throwing my CM down the falline. My ankles become inactive and I simply cannot bend the ski the way I can on moderate terrain.
post #10 of 17
shortest skis ever? no wonder you're fond of short turns!
post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Madison
shortest skis ever? no wonder you're fond of short turns!
165's
post #12 of 17
Yo Dad!

Smooth skiing, nice rhythm, good angulation, getting the edges engaged above the fall line, very little skidding below the fall line and real good cross under move. Well done!

Couple of tips:
1) keep the hands level
2) initiate more of the turn with your ankles, knees & hips

The inside hand is dropping and the outside hand lifting during the turn (airplane banking). This is dipping your inside shoulder and reducing some of the effectiveness of your nice angulation.

There is a stepping motion at your turn initiation where you are closing your stance width to help slide the upper body over the skis. You can also see a pronounced moving of the inside ski to a forward position. This is delaying your inside ski edge engagement until just before the fall line. We want to see more of the hips moving forward and into the new turn versus JUST letting the skis cross under and have the hips drop down. It may also help to think about pointing the new inside knee into the turn to get it started instead of shuffling the feet together. These changes will help get your skiing to the next level.
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
therusty, awesome. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty

The inside hand is dropping and the outside hand lifting during the turn (airplane banking). This is dipping your inside shoulder and reducing some of the effectiveness of your nice angulation.......

We want to see more of the hips moving forward and into the new turn versus JUST letting the skis cross under and have the hips drop down.
Yes, banking has always been an issue.

Regarding the hip move; as I move the hips across the skis and forward into the turn, should I drive the new inside hip forward of the new outside hip?

Thanks again.
post #14 of 17
Dear Dad,

Ah yes, this is the dilemna. If you start the turn in a countered position, the new outside hip is ahead. If you think about advancing the inside hip ahead of the outside hip, this is totally counter (oops -sorry) intuitive - it seem like you're tuning your hips in the opposite direction of where you want to go (but that is not what is happening). If you TRY to do this (i.e. throw the inside hip ahead as far as possbile) the best you'll probably get to is neutral. I think this is where the PSIA-E folks were going a a few years ago when they were harping on using "less counter". Regardless of how far you go, getting the new inside hip moving forward and to the inside magically gets the inside ski on the new edge and turning MUCH much earlier in the turn and opens up a whole new level of performance possibilities.
post #15 of 17
Ellensdad, I don't like the thought of "driving" the new inside hip forward, but I do like the thought of sliding it gradually ahead during the edge change. My take on the process is that just as you flatten the skis on the way to rolling onto the new edges, you should basically be squaring the hips up with the skis and then, as you're engaging the new edges, you should be guiding the new inside hip ahead as part of moving the whole pelvis forward.
post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks!

Guys, your thoughtful responses have led to a nice little list of things to think about over the Summer and work on next season. Thanks again.
post #17 of 17
One little thing to be aware of: the feet opening out during the turn and then closing again. Keep them both underneath you, both working, and hopefully both the same distance apart.
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