EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Member Gear Reviews › Does not play well with ice
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Does not play well with ice

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
8800's do not excell in spring ice.

Things were very warm the previous day and froze to be concrete bumpy chunk hell.

With the speed slowed up slightly I could get them to hold a edge and simply turn back and forth across the hill once the edge set. while this wasn't adreniline producing it was fun skiing just enjoying making turns back and forth. I would say they were stable just not biting.

I couldn't go fast and make any confident turns at all without really letting the mozza balls hang out and hope for the best. on the groomers there were spots that were just ice and when one came upon them the ski just slipped right out. Very unerving to say the least.

Definately not a spring morning ice ski.

Despite things being concrete they didn't really get knocked around they just couldn't penetrate the ice to give any sense of control.

In the bumps that were smoothed out from lots of traffic they were pretty good as one isn't really setting an edge here but rather using the uphill side of the mogul to control speed. they were very forgiving of the hard impacts and let me pound my way through in my not so pretty method of bumps.

Video of this day will be up soon to see first hand. Likely in the instruction section for the sticky.

post #2 of 20
have you tuned them recently?
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
I had a major tune done. Skied one day at Marmot Basin in icy'ish conditions in the AM and mostly soft for the rest of the day.

I then did two 3 hour uses at the local hill in pure slurpee conditions.

then this day at Sunshine Village.

The edges were reasonably sharp and certainly very far from anywhere near dull.

Found the same type of thing on a fresh tune at Marmot Basin though. Just doesn't dig in deep. Keep in mind I only weigh 150# and they are only 177's.

They slipped out of edge easily and would not bite at all on real pure ice. Then again I am a spoilt Western Skier. Ice what's that stuff? Isn't that for Hockey players and Eastern skiers?
post #4 of 20
What degree of tune are you using?
post #5 of 20
8800's do not excell in spring ice.

Did you really expect them too?
post #6 of 20
There seems to be a segment of skiers that think if it's wide then it has to be good in any and all conditions. I know I'm in the minority on this but a wide ski is not the end all and be all of skiing. Yes they are much better then even a couple of years ago. I still prefer a 68mm to 75mm waisted ski for most spring conditions. Wet heavy afternoon snow will stick to the base of even the best waxed ski more surface area the more you are going to get suction on the base. a wider ski needs to be put more on an angle to engage the edge. I really enjoy my Dynastar 8000s I also love the performance of my K2 Apache Chiefs. In icy turning to slush conditions I the trust P11 always seems to get the job done and keeps a smile on my face. Thats my 2 cents worth on the subject.
post #7 of 20
Enjoy your midfats and wider midfats on decent snow. If you can ski them at all on the choppy porcelain with some degree of enjoyment, then good on ya, and good on them. When slush turns to irregular ice . . . are there really any good skis? Let's face it, irregular frozen slush sucks, and no skis will change that.
post #8 of 20
Marmot, had similar conditions at Lake Louise last Saturday (8th) and experienced the same thing, these skis are not fun on ice, I think it's not so much just the width but the soft tip, it's hard to get it to bite. I ended up mostly going straight on groomers until it softened up around 11 or 12. I bet Pros would bite better with the stiffer tip.
post #9 of 20
You are just admitting what many others are not honest about. Wide all-mountains skis are useless on ice.
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head first
You are just admitting what many others are not honest about. Wide all-mountains skis are useless on ice.
Don't sugar-coat it like that.*

Tell us how you really feel.

*A free beer at the Mangy Moose to the first person who can identify the movie that line came from.
post #11 of 20
Would that be Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Would that be Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?
We have a weiner!

Next time you're in JH, I owe you a beer at the Moose. Make sure you come and take me up on it.

My other favorite line from that movie is:

"Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
post #13 of 20
On the other hand . . .

Skied Alta Saturday, Brighton Sunday, Solitude today. When the cement is almost but not quite set, fatter skis rule. When that stuff freezes, there ain't no good skis.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
I don't think there is much contestion that no skis are really good on concrete frozen slush crud.

I do wonder though if the wider ski does give and advantage over skinnier by giving more stability and a wider platform for balance in those conditions.

Gramboh: I saw a guy with some pro's at Sunshine and asked him if I could flex his skis as I had never seen any in person, he said sure of course. I was really expecting a much stiffer ski.

I could be wrong but the tail felt softer and the tip only slightly stiffer. I don't know if I would want a ski that wide for every day use anyway.
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head first
You are just admitting what many others are not honest about. Wide all-mountains skis are useless on ice.
Once the crud freezes-up, skiing is difficult regardless of who you are or what you're on.

But, skis respond differently.

Softer big skis, like Rossi B3's or Pocket Rockets, are fun to dance on. But, they'll have a tough time on that stuff.

Stiffer big skis, like Mantras or Sugar Daddies, require more oomph, but they'll plough through it or cut it up.

Mt. Baker, where I often ski, sees it's share of frozen crud (huge snowfall with frequent freezing-warming cycles).

My new Sugar Daddy's handle it better than anything I've been on - and they hold an edge well, by any standard.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head first
You are just admitting what many others are not honest about. Wide all-mountains skis are useless on ice.
Not all. I ski in the East and have the Nordica Top Fuels (123-78-108). They hold quite well on ice.
post #17 of 20
Thanks Bob, I might take you up on that next season. I need to visit my niece Cindee and her husband Doug (George)
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
My other favorite line from that movie is:

"Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
Bob, that is my all time favorite movie. I also like the line "Hell the fall will kill you"

Back on track. Yeah fat skis are real popular on ice. That is why you see so many folks on fat skis on the east coast which 50% of the time is boiler plate hard pack. See here on the east coast we don't call it ice until its solid blue. If its still white then its just hard pack. I didn't see any ice in that photo there. Anybody else from the east coast see ice in that photo?

Getting back to those 8800s. Its either the Dynastar 8000s or 8800s that have the metal edges that stop about 3 inches from the tip of the ski. There is 3 inches of no metal edge at the tip of the ski. Often wondered how they would work in breakable crust or on those chunk hard pack conditions like 5 days after the last snow fall with a few warm days followed by a real cold snap. Probably no different then any other ski. I mean who needs metal edges at the tip of your skis.
post #19 of 20

ICE?!...I Don't See No Stinkin' ICE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills
Bob, that is my all time favorite movie. I also like the line "Hell the fall will kill you"

Back on track. Yeah fat skis are real popular on ice. That is why you see so many folks on fat skis on the east coast which 50% of the time is boiler plate hard pack. See here on the east coast we don't call it ice until its solid blue. If its still white then its just hard pack. I didn't see any ice in that photo there. Anybody else from the east coast see ice in that photo?
howdy, kidz,

very well said...just amazed at the difference between what eastern & western skiers consider 'difficult or challenging' conditions.

that being said...the age of the one ski quiver is long gone, thank goodness.

in just a few posts on this thread, there are more than a dz skis mentioned which could play better in those conditions, as well as, in many other conditions.

a good craftsman doesn't have just one tool to do everything.


thx,

bruce marks
post #20 of 20
Lets just stop all this gear talk and get back to Butch and Sundance. Next time you are skiing at Snowbasin Stop by the Shooting Star Saloon in Huntsville. The nShooting Star is the oldest running Saloon in the State. Chances are Butch and comany, had a beer or two at The Shooting Star while camping in the Ogden Valley. They were there waiting on word on weather or not to help Elzy Lay excape from The Ogden City Jail. Lay felt it was better to do his time in Jail. He got word to Butch, not to risk a jail break.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Member Gear Reviews
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Member Gear Reviews › Does not play well with ice