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In the interests of clarity

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
It seems that we should use arcing to describe skiing where the tail and tip cut the same groove (I still fall into the old habit of saying carving) according to at least one authoritative source (PSIA I think, correct me if I'm wrong). O.k. now the question.

What do you call it if you are using the entire bottom of the ski essentially as an edge in soft snow, much as you would be using the edge on hard pack. Yes, I realize the difference, and how quickly you can get buried if you tip to much, and how the flex becomes more important, with the flex ratio and surface area (being related to the side cut) having a more direct effect on turn shape than the side-cut. Essentially one can tip the skis and ride the "edge" actually ski bottom pretty much like carving on hard pack, but with some added complications due to compressibility of snow, ski flex, no resistance to sinking down, etcetera. If the snows really deep, I like to treat both ski bottoms as one "edge".

Should that type of free skiing be called "carving"? If not, what should it be called to distinguish it from the porpoising-pivoting style of skiing deep fresh.

BTW I'm not asking you what you think of it as a style, just what it's called if anything.

Thanks.
post #2 of 9
Ghost -

Take a look at this old thread. You might find it interesting:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...=carving+bases

There are one or two others where this issue has been previously touched on.

Tom / PM
post #3 of 9
Hmmm...
Like Tigger I love to bounce through several layers of soft stuff. Except I use more of a steered (not pivotted) approach. So I guess the porpoise name is the most common name I know for bounding through the snow.
Powder skiing is the only other one I can think of...
post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
It seems that we should use arcing to describe skiing where the tail and tip cut the same groove (I still fall into the old habit of saying carving) according to at least one authoritative source (PSIA I think, correct me if I'm wrong). O.k. now the question..
Opinions vary. USSA manual "Alpine Ski Fundamentals" is where the distinction between carving and arcing is made(p 43):

"Carving by definition for the USST is a form of steering or turning on a semi-engaged edge. The National team staff makes a distinction between carving and arcing, which is a pured carved turn."

"Arcing is a turn on a completely engaged edge, where the tail follows the tip throughout the turn radius. In general terms, it is the fastest and most efficient turn possible"

This page also defines pivoting according to them, but I'll leave that for another discussion.

Personally, I think that anything which results in a round turn shape is the result of carving (I am putting on my kevlar vest as I say that). To me it doesn't matter if you are using the edges as the contact point or if the entire base of the ski is the contact point with the snow. If the ski bends and causes it to slide in a curved, round path...then you're carving. Its the antithesis of pivoting and skidding.
post #5 of 9
For me, the issue is whether the ski is traveling forward through the turn or drifting sideways, or some combination. For the sake of clarity, I tell students that the first is carving, the second is skidding, the third is a rounded skid or a skidding carve (depending on how much). When they finally lay in a track where there is virtually no drift, I tell them they carved their first turn. They know the difference, too.

The difference between carving on packed or powder (or slush) is the width, firmness, and resiliency of the platform the ski cuts itself out of the side of the hill to ride on. This depends on how deep in can or does penetrate or become immersed in the snow.
post #6 of 9
I like that Weems!

Especially on the forward movement of the ski along it's length being the dominant characteristic of carved turns. Each ski leaves it's own track, of consistant very narrow width. (strong edge/pressure bias on gliding)

I referance skidding when the tail swings around way outside the path of the feet and around, leaving an over lapped cressant moon shaped track by both skis that fans wider in th emiddle of the turn. (strong rotary bias on braking)

In between are what I like to call a brushed carve where skis still travel more forward than sideways, but with consistant degree of drift from tip to tail. Each ski's track is still distinct, but wider as result of 'drift' but stays pretty consistant width throughout the turn. (blend of E/P engaged ski design with guiding to produce intended speed and direction)

The brushed carve is what I prefer to ski (instead of skidding) especially to stay behind a skidded turn student I am following. Offers a lot of learning opportunity to play with finesse and cause and effect blending of skills when not 'locked on' edge.
post #7 of 9

Great post

I have always considered the tracks left in the snow an indication of how close to "pure carved" someones turn was.

Rail road tracks = pure carved. This becomes more difficult to do as the radius of the turn becomes less and eventually reaches a point where this is impossible. Also, there is no brakeing during these so the skier picks up a huge amound of speed.

Windshield wiper type tracks = almost all skid. (A lot of Minnesota skiers do this. A bad habit but it works well on the groomed/hard Minnesota snow, but not so well in variable conditions found so often in the mountains)

Cresent moon or bananna track = brushed carve (scarve) or a turn that has some elements of the skid and some of the carve. The wider the track in the middle of the turn the more skid/rotary motion that was incoorporated. Short radius (speed control) turns on steep terrain show wider middle. Medium radius radius turns on milder slopes are skinner in the middle.
post #8 of 9
FLATBOARDING!!! Where's Taichiskier when you need him!!??
post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcmeister
I like that Weems!

Especially on the forward movement of the ski along it's length being the dominant characteristic of carved turns. Each ski leaves it's own track, of consistant very narrow width. (strong edge/pressure bias on gliding)

I referance skidding when the tail swings around way outside the path of the feet and around, leaving an over lapped cressant moon shaped track by both skis that fans wider in th emiddle of the turn. (strong rotary bias on braking)

In between are what I like to call a brushed carve where skis still travel more forward than sideways, but with consistant degree of drift from tip to tail. Each ski's track is still distinct, but wider as result of 'drift' but stays pretty consistant width throughout the turn. (blend of E/P engaged ski design with guiding to produce intended speed and direction)

The brushed carve is what I prefer to ski (instead of skidding) especially to stay behind a skidded turn student I am following. Offers a lot of learning opportunity to play with finesse and cause and effect blending of skills when not 'locked on' edge.
Yup. And all of them have their role, and all of them are effective skiing--when their tactical purposes are clear. It's the not knowing which you're doing that I think we try to work with.
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