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To Gun or not to Gun - is the foam core really too fragile?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

First: I've been reading these forums for some time now and they've been a great help so far. Thanks everybody!

Situation: Since I have a friend who used to work for Salomon I can get a pair of Salomon Teneighty Guns 05/06 directly from them for quite an attractive price.

I had a chance to demo the Gun earlier this year in 175cm length and liked it very much.

What I'm looking for is a ski mainly for offpiste (hopefully mostly powder) and I'm also interested in starting to learn some stuff in the park / jumps in general. That's why I've decided to get a twintip ski.

I'm lightweight: 63kg (=139 pounds) and 179cm (=5'10''). I can ski all the mountain and nowadays go offpiste most of the time.

The only thing that's left me wondering is the amount of criticism I've read on the foam core. I keep reading that it won't last long and that many f.c. skis break down (although Salomon seems to replace them readily in these cases) etc. What do you guys think, is this really a problem, especially since I don't weigh that much and at the moment I only get to ski around 20-30 days per season?

Another thing: If I have the binding (S912ti) mounted at the "freestyle" position (closer to the center), will I be able to move it backwards for powder days as much as the 'adjustment range' (24mm) allows? I'm new to how these things work technically, so any info on this is appreciated!
post #2 of 15
my experience with foam core skis has been use em for 1 season and then they are done, no flex left. but i havent tried any salomons so can't comment on those spcifically.
post #3 of 15
The Gun is a slightly stiffer version of the Pocket Rocket. (They use the same mold to make them.) My Pocket Rockets have 80 days on them & are still going even after some nasty encounters with rocks. My son has destroyed his but they had 120+ days on them which is great considering how much abuse they took. I wouldn't worry about the durability of the Guns at your weight.

The standard 912Ti binding will not allow you to move back on the ski. It only allows you to adjust the heel for different size boots. The toe is stationary.
post #4 of 15
Hmmm well, I would put it like this. Identify what you really want to do with these. Big pow landings or lots of park landings and you could see the negatives of the foam core. I mean Solly's work, I still have a 1999 pair of 1080's that ski half decent. However, they are soft, like noodley soft and it only gets worse with time. I did have a pair of PR's fold up on me on a big switch landing. If you want to ride park and you want the right tool, buy a differnt ski end of story. But this is a fun ski, and its not like it will come unglued over night. Rather it is this, one must balance their desire to save money with the desire to have the right tool. My opinon is that save some money and buy something else unless you have a whole quiver of skis in which this will just be a rotation ski or the deal is so good that you wouldn't be too upset if they die in a year or so. You can still get your boy to hook you up just get the Gun Lab or Cr pro model both are super tight skis.
post #5 of 15
Sorry to post twice, but the CR Lab really sounds like what you should go with. It doesn't have the Complex Isocell core, and it has completely differnt bases. The regular gun has series 7000 sintered graphite, the 8000 is better but a pain in the ass. The Cr Lab has some kind of sintered racing base, super super fast and pretty bomber. I have never seen a similar base on park skis. This is the ultimate cross between racing ski and park ski. It truly is a park ski that rails on groomers. As for the core I don't know anyone with actual information from Solomon but we did rip apart one that had sucumbed to some urban poundings. It looked like the standard wood core (poplar ?) but it definitly had tail stringers and some kind of rubber/epoxy material sandwiching the edges. The construction is very similar to upper end Atomics, Elans and Armadas. Overall this ski is a seriously sick ski. Tell your boy you want pro form pricing on these and then send a pair my way.
post #6 of 15
You will probably get such a great price that any Salomon you get will be a far better deal than could get elsewhere. Besides that I have about 100 days on my PR's and they are holding up well. The edge grip is still excellent and that is usually the first thing to go on my skis because I abuse them torsionally by arcing the hell out of them. :-)

post #7 of 15
No offense but PRs/Guns are not what this guy is looking for. Look at all the people that have PR's 99% have never rode park in their life. They used to rule Alta/Snowbird, but only for people who wanted to rip groomers. They are noodley soft, those tails will fold faster than super man on laundry day. Ride park for more than a couple of days and you will need something else.
post #8 of 15
My 03/04 185cm Pocket Rockets still work great. I don't jump off of cliffs, or ski park. I just ski around on and off the groom. These skis made skiing fun for me and turn on a dime. We had some deep powder dumps here in the Washington and these skis are the first skis that let me play in deep snow. I wouldn't mind trying out the Volkl Mantra.

Some observations:

- I have read that the foam core is mainly just a filler and provides dampening, that the main structural strength comes from the cap. Dunno, it's a thought.

- I have observed a few other people on PR's when they slide over a bumpy surface, off groom and their ski flexes so that it looks like it is snaking over the surface of the snow. But these people are on much shorter skis. I ski the longer ski and think I might have more of the stiffer portion of the ski underfoot. The ski has a unique structure with a stiffer, thicker center portion and very flexable tip and tail.

- It would be nice if skis had some kind of standerdized flex rating. Skiers require different flex depending how hard they want to rip. Few of us could get a professional race ski to carve.

- People ski the Pr's/Ten-eighty Gun because they demo them and like them. It is great that we have so many skis to choose from!

- Maybe you should demo a pair of "used" ten-eighty guns and see if they do the job for you.

edit: I don't know how meaningful, but when I place my old Pr's together base to base, I measure about a 1/2 inch (1.5 cm) combined camber gap. So, it's not like they are totally collapsed.
post #9 of 15
Just a post on foam core durability. I have owned many foam core, cap design skis both Rossi and Solomons and have never had an issue with durability. Most I've had over 100 days plus with no sign of fatigue or delamination. Fact not fiction.
post #10 of 15
If your getting a great deal why worry just buy the ski.
post #11 of 15
I was shocked when stockli went to foam cores in some of their race skis, as their wood cores was a big point of difference for them (from Rossi, for instance). I got some SCs this season, and I must say, with my whopping 200lb on them, they are just fine. They are in between 2 layers of titanal, they are nice and floppy, with claw edges, and go like the clappers. No signs of them flagging yet. I ski most days on them. (and I ski most days).
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
First: Wow. I'm impressed by the amount of answers, so thanks everybody for your input!

Armada: Thanks for the idea. I'm afraid they don't sell the CR Lab in my country though, but I'll ask him about it anyway..

Another ski I've been looking at is the Völkl Karma (haven't tried it. Missed the Völkl demo day, duh) which is on sale at a local shop. I would end up paying around €100 more than for the Gun, guess I have to try and negotiate with my Salomon contact to get the price down further
post #13 of 15
Ho ho, getting Salomons cheap, good luck!
post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
Assuming you live in the States and having had a look at the web, it seems all european skis are ridiculously overpriced over there..
post #15 of 15
On skis that have a reputation for wimping out, I don't think you can really blame the core -- it's such a minor part of the overall structure (more of a damping/tuning filler). Foam or wood shouldn't matter if the outer structural elements of the ski (sidewalls and top/bottom sheet) are good. I am always amazed how soft the wood core of skis are. Even the much touted "sensorwood" in my Volkls is pretty soft stuff.

I think most foam core skis that had a bad reputation were just cheap skis. A well built foam core ski ought to be fine.
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