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Stone grind question - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
...I also went on to say that changing base bevel not side bevel is much more far reaching effect on a skis performance ....
back to information sharing...

Can you explain how it changes the ski. How will the performance differ on a ski with 0, .5 or 1 degree of base bevel?
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
But if he was happy with the ski when new, why change things? Just because YOU would?
Geez, and I thought that comment was meant for me.:

3 degree side gives better grip without changing the behavior of the ski. But, if you don't race, or ski ice regularly, 2 degrees is fine.
Unless there is something you dislike about the way the ski behaves, though, DON'T change the base bevel.

(Leastwise that's been our experiences. Take it for what it's worth.)
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
Hey Atomicman, chill! I believe you know what you're talking about, but the nastier you get the less anyone will be interested in your knowledge.
Whatever, sibhusky comment was completely without merit and rang with a sarcastic tone, since I never said he should use a 3 degree because I do! Put the responsibility where it belongs. . it was a smartass comment which deserved a smart ass response!

if one is going to comment on one's post, at least one should be accurate about what one said!

husky, you barked up the wrong tree the wrong way!
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklgirl
Geez, and I thought that comment was meant for me.:

3 degree side gives better grip without changing the behavior of the ski. But, if you don't race, or ski ice regularly, 2 degrees is fine.
Unless there is something you dislike about the way the ski behaves, though, DON'T change the base bevel.

(Leastwise that's been our experiences. Take it for what it's worth.)
I was sticking up for us both. I thought is was a very sarcastic way to respond!

sounded like a whiny 5 year old, Well just because you like it doesn't meanhe will! NA NA, NA NA, NA!
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklgirl
Geez, and I thought that comment was meant for me.:

3 degree side gives better grip without changing the behavior of the ski. But, if you don't race, or ski ice regularly, 2 degrees is fine.
Unless there is something you dislike about the way the ski behaves, though, DON'T change the base bevel.

(Leastwise that's been our experiences. Take it for what it's worth.)
It was directed towards all the "change it" people and I felt that without seeing the way this person skied that it was inappropriate to be telling him to change his equipment. If he's happy with the way his equipment is working for him, then just leave it alone. To be clearer, the second sentence was meant to convey the idea, "just because YOU like your equipment this way doesn't mean HE/SHE will." Apparently the way I phrased it was read differently than I intended. I think if you read back over most of my posts since joining, I am rarely the one to become smart aleck-y first.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky
It was directed towards all the "change it" people and I felt that without seeing the way this person skied that it was inappropriate to be telling him to change his equipment. If he's happy with the way his equipment is working for him, then just leave it alone. To be clearer, the second sentence was meant to convey the idea, "just because YOU like your equipment this way doesn't mean HE/SHE will." Apparently the way I phrased it was read differently than I intended. I think if you read back over most of my posts since joining, I am rarely the one to become smart aleck-y first.
You completely ignored the fact that i told him if he didn't like it, it is very easy to go back to a 2 degree.

Secondly, i have hooked him up with the best tuner in Spokane area. So i am sure he will be well taken care of!
post #37 of 45
Also I forgot, for the final nail in the coffin,

the poster "skidoc" who owns Precision tuning center in framingham MA. & was volkl USA product manager (Mike De Santis) for many years advocates 1 & 3 to get the most out almost all skis without giving up anyhing. Including skis that come 1 & 1 from the factory, some heads, some Elans

Search his posts, and get your skis retuned to a 1 & 3. YOU'LL NEVER GO BACK, JACK!
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
Also I forgot, for the final nail in the coffin,

the poster "skidoc" who owns Precision tuning center in framingham MA. & was volkl USA product manager (Mike De Santis) for many years advocates 1 & 3 to get the most out almost all skis without giving up anyhing. Including skis that come 1 & 1 from the factory, some heads, some Elans

Search his posts, and get your skis retuned to a 1 & 3. YOU'LL NEVER GO BACK, JACK!
good enough for me. i am a big boy i can take or leave advice. i was not browbeat to do as he suggested. i asked for advice and it is up to me to accept it or do something else. now i have a few opinions and 2 of them are experienced volkl users in a serious way. i like a responsive ski. i like to dig my edges and hold when others skid.i got nailed by a guy who couldn't hold an edge in a steep and hard surface. had i known he was there i would have had ample time to maneuver away and having excellent edge hold is why i bought the allstar. i don't consider this a one dimentional ski as some allude.i have skiied everythig but deep powder in this ski and it has met or beaten my expectations.i have 45 years of skiing experience and know what i like. i ask questions here because i want good info.i like to know the details of how things work not because i am new to this but because i wanna know. thanks to all that share their expertise .it is up to us to consider the source and make our own decisions.
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn
back to information sharing...

Can you explain how it changes the ski. How will the performance differ on a ski with 0, .5 or 1 degree of base bevel?
I'm sure A-Man or others can give a more detailed explaination, but here is my understanding in "idiot" mode:

The less base bevel you have (0-0.5 degree), the quicker your skis will react to input. However, this includes unintentional input (errors) as well, and will make your skis less forgiving.

The more base bevel you have (0.5-1 degree), the slower your skis will react, but the more forgiving and easy going they will be.

It has also been shown that for racers, the base bevel makes a difference in speed. For flatter courses, .75-1 degree is faster, allowing the ski to "swim" when flat. For steeper courses, .5-.75 degree is faster because the ski slips sideways less. For the steepest courses, .5-0 degree is fastest for the same reason.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklgirl
The less base bevel you have (0-0.5 degree), the quicker your skis will react to input. However, this includes unintentional input (errors) as well, and will make your skis less forgiving.

The more base bevel you have (0.5-1 degree), the slower your skis will react, but the more forgiving and easy going they will be.
Exactly.
post #41 of 45
If your base bevel gets above 1 or so saying "forgiving" would be a matter of will you forgive them for skiing so badly.

Based on bad advice I had my skis at 3 degree side AND base bevel for a while. It was very hard to get to the edges, took a lot of angulation. Good in real soft snow, but downright dangerous on hardpack and ice.
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
If your base bevel gets above 1 or so saying "forgiving" would be a matter of will you forgive them for skiing so badly.
True. It seems that common knowledge is that any base bevel greater than 1 degree has diminishing returns in direct proportion to the amount of extra bevel above 1 degree.

Base bevel should = 0.0 to 1.0 depending on your desire for quickness/reaction vs the trade-off for forgiveness.
post #43 of 45
An accurate true 1 degree base bevel is preferable for almost all conditions! I know no one who skis a -0-
post #44 of 45
Stockli advertises that they go with 0.5 base bevel under foot and 1 degree at the tip and tails. Both pairs of my Stocklis came with more what would be considered almost totally flat under foot and about 1 degree at the tip & tails.

Anyhow, it's just another option to consider. The idea being to have less bevel and more "quick reaction" under foot while allowing the tip and tails some forgiveness. I found though that if you spend time use pivoting skills in the moguls then you really want at least 1.0 degree under foot too.
post #45 of 45
I tried that concept on a pair of Volkl P30 RC Racing a few years back. Hated it. A nice consistent base bevel is solid, smooth and predictable.
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