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Compare Two Skiers On The Same Terrain - Page 2

post #31 of 44
My thought is just because some does not carve in a film shot does not mean thay can not carve. And just because soming is carving in the same viedo does not mean they can't skid when they need to
post #32 of 44
My comments

1. Not an a PSIA geek (no insult intended) but ski ski and interact on technique with some level II's. I both enjoy and relate to much of the discussion on this forum. IMHO skiier 2 seems to have greater upper/lower body separation with a quieter upper body and therefore is able to get his skiis angulated to provide more of a carve.

2. Thanks for the video shot. I live and ski Minnesota and ski the west about once a year. So I do not see powder very much. I did ski Utah this March (11th to the 17th) and got a lot so snow like in your video. (Got gate opening in Devils Castle at Alta and was in the second wave when the patrol opened the whole area on skiiers left of White Cloud lift at Snowbird) Loved every minute of it and watching these clips brings me back and helps me relive those precious moments.
post #33 of 44
By the way, when I made this comment: "I bet 95% of PSIA instructors would look just as bad!", I meant to put the "bad" in quotations.

This is difficult terrain and both skiers are handling it well, although Greg is obviously superior and shows his racing background. How can one not love it?
post #34 of 44
Thread Starter 
Skugrud, that is when I was there, so that explains why the conditions were similar... (see my other videos for footage of the powder day at snowbird on wednesday of that week...).
Later
GREG
post #35 of 44
Greg, you were there and we were not. Obviously you know better than us what the conditions were like and how it felt skiing it. Would it have been possible to carve on that slope that day? Would it have been functional and wise to do so?
post #36 of 44
HeluvaSkier - Where would I find the other videos you mentioned in the last post?

Thanks
post #37 of 44
Thread Starter 
Tdk6; the closest you will get to carving (for normal humans) is what I was doing, unless you are really, really brave and strong. I could have made GS type turns, but they would not have looked pretty. I prefer to keep the turns carved or scarved versus the up/down movements... just because of my racing background. I can make turns otherwise, but they are not particularly useful IMO, nor a good representation of top level skiing. It may have been top level skiing 15 years ago... but it isn't 15 years ago anymore.

skugrud: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=36802; see my third post.

Later

GREG
post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
I prefer to keep the turns carved or scarved versus the up/down movements... just because of my racing background.
Wow Greg. Unfortunate that you see it that way. The so called up/down movements...or rather "release" movements are in fact used in racing all the time and I don't see them as being the least bit old school...except for some kiddies on videos which put on super fat skis and just ski big mountain lines with close to zero off-piste technique(they also aren't skiing in crud either)......just using big ass skis to float across the top of the snow and make hard pack turns. You weren't in that kind of situation...as most of us never will be......

Quote:
I can make turns otherwise, but they are not particularly useful IMO, nor a good representation of top level skiing. It may have been top level skiing 15 years ago... but it isn't 15 years ago anymore.
wow. I think you're missing it. Hopefully someday you will have more opportunities to get out in the big west snow and try some of the things I've suggested for you. You might change your mind. You are really so close already. Just a tiny bit more release at the transition and holding your extention a tiny bit longer.. really would do wonders for you (it wouldn't hurt your racing either ;-)
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewdman42
Wow Greg. Unfortunate that you see it that way. The so called up/down movements...or rather "release" movements are in fact used in racing all the time and I don't see them as being the least bit old school...except for some kiddies on videos which put on super fat skis and just ski big mountain lines with close to zero off-piste technique(they also aren't skiing in crud either)......just using big ass skis to float across the top of the snow and make hard pack turns. You weren't in that kind of situation...as most of us never will be......



wow. I think you're missing it. Hopefully someday you will have more opportunities to get out in the big west snow and try some of the things I've suggested for you. You might change your mind. You are really so close already. Just a tiny bit more release at the transition and holding your extention a tiny bit longer.. really would do wonders for you (it wouldn't hurt your racing either ;-)
Dewdman, since when are you an expert on every type of skiing? You come on and tell everyone else how their technique is wrong after reading HH's books. I don't buy it, and your greater-than-thou attitude gets annoying very quickly. If you are qualified to give Greg advice, let's see some video of how you ski better than him and have cleaner releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewdman, from the pmts cutting edge (not) thread
Actually, except for racing or really high speed carving, I have pretty dialed in. Its the fast groomers that I really need race style coaching..without actually becoming a ski racer, to take it to the next level in some subtle ways. Basically, higher performance carving. Any trained racer can outdo me. Most PSIA and CSIA instructors I have met probably could not unless they were also trained for racing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewdman, from sometime in january
Well I just ordered BOTH a book by LeMasters (The skier's Edge) and pretty much all the books and videos from HH...and a few others. I'm sure there are bits and pieces of truth and goodness between all of them. What specifically do you think is wrong with HH's techniques? what should I watch out for in your opinion and your experience, having pursued it for a while?
This is where you draw your condescending authority from, having read the works of HH and Lemaster. Congrats. Reading the books does not make you smarter or better than everyone and does not make every system suck. You admit on the upper quote that any trained racer could outdo you. Therefore I'd chill out on giving haughty, sarcastic advice to trained racers... :

Until you post some video of your skiing and/or get an actual CERT, please stop telling people how they are wrong and misguided. There is something to be said for listening more than one speaks.
post #40 of 44
whoa dude...easy does it there. I don't tell everyone that first of all and I don't have a holier than thou attitude. Whatever I have said to Greg was with respect and sincere desire to help. If its not taken that way, then sorry for you.

By the way, I hold CSIA level 1+2 certification, CSCF level 1, PSIA level 1(working on 2) and some experience teaching. I don't think my advice is coming from HH's book. As a matter of fact, my advice to Greg about skiing off-piste has absolutely nothing thing to do with PMTS... But I grew up skiing Tahoe and Utah and know a thing or two about it.

Man..easy does it... How long did you spend looking through my posts to try to find the meanest and juiciest quotes you could find to try to make me look bad? Honestly, I was not being sarcastic to Greg in the least in my post. My comments were intended to be purely meant as well-meaning advice.
post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
Tdk6; the closest you will get to carving (for normal humans) is what I was doing, unless you are really, really brave and strong. I could have made GS type turns, but they would not have looked pretty. I prefer to keep the turns carved or scarved versus the up/down movements... just because of my racing background. I can make turns otherwise, but they are not particularly useful IMO, nor a good representation of top level skiing. It may have been top level skiing 15 years ago... but it isn't 15 years ago anymore.

GREG
Normal humans
That was what I expected! If it was as close to carving as we can expect to get I would not say that it was very functional. Skier #2 is not a good ref. since he is clearly not as good as Greg. So what we basicly have here is a great skier skiing one way and a week skier skiing another way. If both had been same level we could have had a great comparisson. The comparisson we have to do now needs some filtering. Also Greg claims he is not very experianced skiing out of bounds and his statement that relesing by retracting leggs would be a 15y old technique underlines it. Greg himselfe resorts to hopping a bit in order to get momentum at the initiation of his turns up at the top. The up and down moovement is supposed to be happening mainly from waist downwards, pumping of leggs, but can involve a bit of up and down moovement of upper body depending on snowconditions and how safe you want to feel. I see some upper body ratation and up and down moovement in my own powder skiing videos so I can only conclude that -darn, Im I really dooing that....

http://sports.topeverything.com/defa...tent&ID=4DACA2

What makes carving in crudd or powder or varying snow conditions so challenging is that the variation of the snow resistance is huge. Because of this a wide stance is also not functional. Even the slightest variations in resistance will transfer into upper body and particulary arm rotation and you will be put off balance. By simply closing your stance you can eliminate this distracting component.

Dewdman42, I happen to totally agree on what you say on the issue of kiddies and modern offpist skiing. Fat twin tip skis, suspenders hanging over butt, snowboard helmet, backpack with all kind of pre avalance equipment, total lack of mountain or pro avalance understanding and cero knowledge of how to ski.
post #42 of 44
dewdman42,

I think it is ironic that you'd slam the CSIA and then when pushed use those certs as a shield. Reminds me of guys that hate cops, but call 911 when they suspect a B&E in progress in their house....

And BTW, it's really easy to find condescending tone in your posts.

Lighten up dewd! This is supposed to be fun.
post #43 of 44
With all due respect, I don't think I'm the one the needs to lighten up. I never got angry once in this thread. ????

He claimed I had no certs, so I responded to him on that issue. It is not my normal practice to sling my certs around as some kind of justification... There will always be someone else out there who has higher certs, so its a useless argument as far as that goes.. He was trying to say that the only knowledge I have is from reading HH and LeMaster books and that I should keep my mouth shut until I get a real cert. So... I was responding that remark.

As far as condenscending attitude goes...you really don't understand me then. But frankly, I do have a great understanding of skiing. I'd like to share that understanding here. But if its going to be taken this way and thrown back in my face as if I'm being condenscending to offer advice..then I guess i'm wasting my time. This forum is full of people offering advice, since when did mine become condenscending?

I have nothing more to add to this thread because I've given the best advice I know about skiing pow and crud. You can try what I have reccomended or not. Up to you. Why people are taking it personally..I have no idea. I certainly have not personally attacked anyone else. But now there are at least two personal attacks against me as a person on this thread...simply because I tried to share what I know. Its interesting... My patience with this forum in general is waivering..

happy skiing..
post #44 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
dewdman42,
it's really easy to find condescending tone in your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewdman42
My patience with this forum in general is waivering..
That was easy!
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