New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Ideas on a PSIA Union

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
I posted something at the "Steamboat sues Instructor" thread that offered hints on the idea of a PSIA Union. Another member suggested a new thread, so here goes.

First...I am not by any means anti-PSIA, but not currently attached.

It is my understanding that both PSIA Instructors and Member Schools both pay dues to the organization.

With PSIA in this dual role should they decide to pick sides to create a role for change it poses a dilemma. If they were to support the Instructor they would run the risk of alienating the member schools. If they were to support the Schools (read management here) there would be little doubt that Instructors wages would drop.

Assume for the moment that PSIA decided to become a Union and allow whatever member who wanted to join to do so. Assume again that PSIA allowed Schools who supported this new concept to join the organization without paying any dues in exchange for only allowing PSIA connected individuals to work there.

Any school who didn't support the idea of only PSIA members working there would be boycotted by the organization and would be forced to "go it alone". No Union members would of course mean no certified help and any and all training would have to be the burden of each individual area.

I would be all but willing to bet that dues to the organization would dramatically increase as all Instructors would have to join the Union to work at a given school that is a member school.

Have at it folks !
post #2 of 29
Why?

This seems to me anticompetitive and likely to lead to even worse instructional quality than we now encounter. Not to mention increasing costs for consumers, thus reducing the number of students, and also impacting resort profits.

All of this seems to be very detrimental to the sport as a whole.

Personally, I'd much rather see independent ski schools.
post #3 of 29
Never did like the idea of a "closed" shop.
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Why?

This seems to me anticompetitive and likely to lead to even worse instructional quality than we now encounter. Not to mention increasing costs for consumers, thus reducing the number of students, and also impacting resort profits.

All of this seems to be very detrimental to the sport as a whole.

Personally, I'd much rather see independent ski schools.
I don't think so...I think on the quality end you would end up with all PSIA connected Instructors at a member school. Examiners and all Certified levels would be working with interested individuals side by side. The newbees couldn't help but pick up on stuff, learn and go on.

Quality would drop at non-member schools as a result of not supporting PSIA which of course would not cost them any member fees but may reduce ski schools profit but demand could be increased if the quality were higher. It was their choice.

So the pros and want-to-be pros are all in the same place....the slugs and want-to-be slugs are at the other place.

Ski Schools are one of, if not the highest, in terms of net profit, department at any ski area. I'm not sure that costs to the consumer would rise, and if so, probably not too much. Take your home area ssh....Assume for the moment that your area decided to operate as a member school under my plan. The bigest change would be that all Instructors at the ski school would have to join PSIA. A major dues increase to the organization, perhaps enough to result in a lowering of the yearly dues. The cost is to the Instructor....Area "C" no longer has to pay the yearly dues. The area may decide to charge more because Area "B" has a lower quality staff because they decided to not join as a member school, or Area "B" may have to drop their rates because they don't have the quality staff required to demand the same rate as Area "C"

Area "B" not being a member school has it's own set of problems now. No PSIA member can work there. Their quality may suffer or HH and his crew could compete, as could any other group. They, as Area "A" does, sets their costs as they see fit as they all do now, and we see where everybody is at based on next years ski school enrolement.

On a personal note to you ssh....I am very sure you are excited about the coaching announcements for next years ESA...Those folks worth a few extra bucks over "Joe....somebody". YOU BET .....Will the informed customer (like us here at Epic Ski) pay a little more to ski with these folks....for sure !
post #5 of 29
I have to wonder what the true revenue stream to PSIA looks like.

What % is paid by SAM and the associated ski schools.

What % is paid the dues of the rank and file (exclude managment members)?

What % is generated by events and clinics and that stream is "rank and file"?

When those numbers are known or forthcoming it would be easier to assess and comment on the cart before the horse ... or appropriate scenario.
post #6 of 29
Uncle Louie,

Welllllll, that isn't quite how unions work.

First off, several states have right to work laws. That means employers can not be forced to hire only union workers.

Secondly, unions have to be voted in by employees. Many ski school instructors are not members of PSIA. Convincing them to pay dues to a union MIGHT be a tough job.

Although it is theoretically possible for enough like minded people to get together and get a majority type decision to turn PSIA into a union, the odds of this actually happening are slim to none because it goes against some fundamental culture elements of the organization:
a) the organization is a professional organization (the opinion is that union activities present a conflict of interest)
b) the organization derives significant benefits from working harmoniously with resort management and other industry groups (the leadership thinking is that these benefits would be lost if PSIA performed union activities).

While I don't believe that a majority of PSIA members would favor PSIA being a union, there are a significant number of present and former members who are in favor of this (as evidenced by many prior threads here and elsewhere). There is nothing stopping anyone from forming a ski instructor union either on their own or with affiliation with an established union. If you believe in the merits of the concept, don't wait for PSIA - just do it. Opportunity is knocking.

What's really funny though is that I know of at least one school (Blue Knob, PA) where ski school management instituted a rule where all ski school instructors are required to join PSIA and get at least level 1 certification withing x amount of time. The SSD told me that this was because they got a significant insurance cost reduction for this. I'm not sure if this is still in force though.
post #7 of 29
Rather than unionizing PSIA members, Maybe PSIA should consider protecting their members as an incentive to join.

NAA (National Archery Association) is very much like PSIA in the fact that they certify instructors. Archery as a sport is more like a club level thing but instructors are certified and are required to maintain a certain level of teaching and Continuing ed to remain certified. Part of the benefits of being a certified instructor with them is a huge amount of Incident insurance. ($1 mil) with the option of requesting more for special events. As long as your dues and membership to the organization are kept up to date along with your certification, there is no charge to the instructor for this insurance. I suspect it would also include legal help, in law suits.

If PSIA could somehow institute some level of insurance, legal help, etc for instructors that maintain memberships in good standing, The SSD's and member schools might begin to require instructors get their certifications and maintain them. Better pay would probably follow as the managment and schools could probably negotiate better insurance rates for risk managment if the instructors also carried their own liabilty insurance.

The certification process for instructors might have more emphasis or a small module added to keep insructors up to date on Safety and risk managment in order to satisfy this requirement and maybe this particular part of the certification requirement could be priced lower or offered for free to members since one of the reasons most instructors avoid clinics is the cost.
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
Uncle Louie,

Welllllll, that isn't quite how unions work.

First off, several states have right to work laws. That means employers can not be forced to hire only union workers.
My understanding is that employers in right to work states have the option as to whether to allow a union at their workplaces. Looking at a map of right to work states I found that Utah/Nevada/Idaho & Wyoming were the major right to work states and there were a few others that have ski areas namely Virginia, North Carolina and the Dakota's

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
Secondly, unions have to be voted in by employees. Many ski school instructors are not members of PSIA. Convincing them to pay dues to a union MIGHT be a tough job.
I agree that unions need to be voted on. I understand that many ski school Instructors are not members. I find it hard to believe that an Instructor would give up the job vs paying minimal dues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
Although it is theoretically possible for enough like minded people to get together and get a majority type decision to turn PSIA into a union, the odds of this actually happening are slim to none because it goes against some fundamental culture elements of the organization:
a) the organization is a professional organization (the opinion is that union activities present a conflict of interest)
b) the organization derives significant benefits from working harmoniously with resort management and other industry groups (the leadership thinking is that these benefits would be lost if PSIA performed union activities).
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
While I don't believe that a majority of PSIA members would favor PSIA being a union, there are a significant number of present and former members who are in favor of this (as evidenced by many prior threads here and elsewhere). There is nothing stopping anyone from forming a ski instructor union either on their own or with affiliation with an established union. If you believe in the merits of the concept, don't wait for PSIA - just do it. Opportunity is knocking.

What's really funny though is that I know of at least one school (Blue Knob, PA) where ski school management instituted a rule where all ski school instructors are required to join PSIA and get at least level 1 certification withing x amount of time. The SSD told me that this was because they got a significant insurance cost reduction for this. I'm not sure if this is still in force though.
My guess would be that the percentage of Full Time Instructors would be higher than Part Time Instructors who wished to join a Union. I do know of one school that has Unionized, but I have not had a chance to talk to those involved to be made aware of what changes have taken place.

I would not be in favor of all being required to become certified to be a PSIA member (of my fictional Union )
post #9 of 29
If you (the SSD), want me to stay on and teach and deliver a "quality" product so that you can have a quality school and customer base, I don't care if the clinics for my improvement are delivered by PSIA and or little green men (who can teach clinics).

Let the PSIA and it's drive for uniformity and progress be driven and funded by the people who benefit. It appears that the only people who benefit are the SSD, senior staff, stockholders, etc.

Do not even try to convince me that after five or six years or running in the red .... I am gaining anything ....

Once again, the actual numbers would be the tool here but .... I doubt we will ever see them.

Many groups exist for the benefit of a "chosen few" and I have stopped being a believer.

Even the beloved Boy Scouts of America, were under the gun on this one here in NJ. The management of the George Washington Council, refused to release the figures of the "staff" .... reported to be in the millions. Funny, cause at that moment, I was getting hustled to be an assistant scout master. Watching the court battle just to get the numbers ... I declined.

Sorry ... when I smell a pyramid scheme ... I get out of town.

And, no I won't waste my time (no longer a member), writing or demanding ... same reason I left my American Legion Post too.
post #10 of 29
Uncle Louie,

Cool - we're making progress.

re: "I agree that unions need to be voted on. I understand that many ski school Instructors are not members. I find it hard to believe that an Instructor would give up the job vs paying minimal dues."

My point was that pro's would not have to make that choice to get the union started. Their choice at the beginning is whether to keep things as is or a bring in a union, join it and accept the rules changes.

What would minimal dues be? $100/season? $30/month? What are typical dues for "similar" unions?

Can a union "pay for itself" with respect to higher wages and improved working conditions?


re: Full Time vs Part Time.
This is a big difference in East coast resorts vs Western resorts. Most Eastern staffs are predominantly made up of part timers. At my resort we have 10 FT and approximately 200 PT. It is my understanding that many Western "destination" resorts have significantly higher percentage of FT staff.
post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
Rather than unionizing PSIA members, Maybe PSIA should consider protecting their members as an incentive to join.

NAA (National Archery Association) is very much like PSIA in the fact that they certify instructors. .... Part of the benefits of being a certified instructor with them is a huge amount of Incident insurance. ($1 mil) with the option of requesting more for special events. As long as your dues and membership to the organization are kept up to date along with your certification, there is no charge to the instructor for this insurance. ....

If PSIA could somehow institute some level of insurance, legal help, etc for instructors that maintain memberships in good standing, ....
CSIA has insurance for their members.

http://www.snowpro.com/csia/e/

Check out the FAQs under the insurance.

From the FAQ "The member is covered while teaching and coaching or while skiing or riding on his/her personal time." That is definately value added from the organization.

If PSIA became a union, I would be one of the first out the door. I'm a volunteer Adaptive instructor. I think PSIA as a union would be a detriment not a help.

Now, if some other labor organization wanted to step in that's another kettle of fish. They might want to look at unionizing the whole mountain. That could become really interesting.
post #12 of 29
Well now I'm not an instructor (although I do play one on TV) but it seems to me that the whole industry is messed up.

PSIA Instructors have no say or power because their association is partly funded by their employers.

Instructors are not allowed to freelance because the ski areas pay lease fees to give them exclusive rights to use the area for teaching.

This seems outrageous to me. If I want to teach at a music college, a small private school, or on my own as a private teacher I can. There are advantages to teaching at a school of course, you don't have to find your own students for one. But I am free to go out on my own if I like.

But a ski instructor can't? And if they work for a school they have no say, no organization to help them? Not even their own SKI INSTRUCTOR ASSOCIATION. (Name should be changed to PSISSA (Professional Ski Instructor & Ski School Association.)

edit: pronounced Piss-ah!
post #13 of 29

union/non-union

There are several factors at play here and significant regional variation.

I have no doubt that some of the areas (as noted), that require certification treat their employees fairly. I doubt if such destination resorts do it out of "kindness and wisdom"; they probably do it to retain a strong customer base for the local regional business community at large.

I never anticipated that PSIA was a union but, however, it was implied that there were benefits and better pay as a cert. There were none.

PSIA does have some clout in the feeder areas. They want to display "The Shield" .... and yet 97% of the instructors are non-certs ... that's as ethical as badging a Yugo as an Alfa or a Mercedes.

And they bloody well know it!

We don't need a union .... we need a code of ethics and standards .... right now it's a one way street.
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
Well now I'm not an instructor (although I do play one on TV) but it seems to me that the whole industry is messed up.

PSIA Instructors have no say or power because their association is partly funded by their employers.

Instructors are not allowed to freelance because the ski areas pay lease fees to give them exclusive rights to use the area for teaching.

This seems outrageous to me. If I want to teach at a music college, a small private school, or on my own as a private teacher I can. There are advantages to teaching at a school of course, you don't have to find your own students for one. But I am free to go out on my own if I like.

But a ski instructor can't? And if they work for a school they have no say, no organization to help them? Not even their own SKI INSTRUCTOR ASSOCIATION. (Name should be changed to PSISSA (Professional Ski Instructor & Ski School Association.)

edit: pronounced Piss-ah!
SMJ,

PSIA is run by instructors. Some of the instructors are also involved by Ski School Management. In the Eastern division, however, management participation at the board level is limited by the bylaws.

Your music teaching analogy might be more akin to ski instruction if you included if the private music instructor attempted to teach lessons in someone else's auditorium.
post #15 of 29
Although many resorts do pay certified instructors more money, for most people the costs of being certified far outweigh the extra pay that they may receive. Yuki is right about better pay being an implied benefit. For those of you who are interested, here are two links about explicit benefits of being a PSIA member in the Eastern division.
PSIA-E recruiting doc
List of benefits.
post #16 of 29

Should'nt need a union

The last paragraph in the previous post hits it. Unionizing in today's day and age will have it's own set of problems. IMHO what is needed is promotion and strong leadership from within a group like PSIA. Promote big picture thinking among members, promote Integrity, and collective thinking (looking out for and caring about your colleagues) . this would mean sometimes putting yourself secound in decisions you make and standing up for one another if need be . This type of approach would need good Charismatic leadership with transparantly noble motives. In a "striving to be perfect" world it could work.
post #17 of 29

There may be ways?

In five years of travel with my son to races at countless areas in the east, I had only been extended one "comp", as a "card carrying PSIA-E" member.

At Whiteface (in the spring), when I questioned (after countless inquiries), just where the heck are the benefits to carrying this darned card? I think the woman felt sorry for me and knocked off $10 on my ticket.

From Stratton to Stowe, Seven Springs to ..... I have asked about extending a PSIA discount for lodging and tickets and have been told ... simply ... no.

When it came to the part about skiing with a letter from your director if you traveled to another hill, with the provision that you are willing to work if needed, no SSD that I worked for would issue such a letter during the season because "WE may need you to work", and conversly, post season (early for us), the provision stated that it would be honored "while your hill was open" .... but they would only issue the letter when we were closed ???

PSIA & USSA cards .... never got a break on a room either ... no hotel or motel would honor them. The coach used to book a few rooms on her Triple-A card to help us.
post #18 of 29
Yuki,

It's been well established that the conditions that you taught under were substantially below what most resorts offer.

Have you seen the Eastern discount list? Whiteface's policy is up there. The criteria for discounts varies among the resorts, but the ones that are up there clearly state what the criteria are. It's not a full list, but hey it's a start.

Most letters I've seen do not require visiting pros to volunteer to work. Every time I've volunteered to work, I've been politely turned down. Many resorts in the East do require a letter to get a discount and a letter will often get you a discount without PSIA membership. Lodging discounts with national chains are a new benefit.
post #19 of 29

sad ... sad .. comment ..

As I have posted before, when my kid was something like twelve, he picked my pay check up from the seat of the truck on the way home. Dad, is this $35 what you made today? No son, that was for the weekend ... I was honest ... I am not going to lie. I was diasppointed that I left the check out because to this day he does not know what I make at my real job.

Two years ago while he was thumbing through my "Snow-Pro" magazine he came across the intro for the new Jr. PSIA thing .... $35 dues and you get to attend clinics and events (he knows that costs money), and he started to laugh. "Dad, do they think I'm ever going to join this stuff, look at the way they treat you!"

This is the last thing in the world I wanted. The bad news is that you can only hide so much from kids. They put together the pieces (other instructors kids they hang out with), the pay check .... piece by piece. When my wife ( a business person) hears that I have to buy another jacket and her tax guy won't touch my (as promised) write off's for gear, they pick up on everything.

This kid spends over a hundred days a year on snow .... he would have been one of the better skiers and teachers out there, but he is no fool and very much his own person. His comment on the PSIA Kids thing .... "they must be hurting for cash" ..... pretty astute ...

Despite the system down here, I have tried to focus him on using it as fun/income when he goes to college .... I hope that part of my message has sunk in.
post #20 of 29

rusty

Thanks for the kind words and links to the sites.

If I do teach again, it will be when I retire. I'm not wealthy on a goverment salary, but ... I don't and won't put up with the baloney down here.

ANY lobbying that I do now is to effect change and wake up the people in this corridor.

In some ways ... I wish I could be a more "positive" person, and just sit silent and mind my own business ... since it is no longer my business.
post #21 of 29
Yuki, every time you voice your lament about how poorly you were treated during your ski instructing career, you should make note that there are thousands of others whose experiences vary widely with yours.

I've had $35 instructing paychecks for marginal business weeks during which I spent six or seven hours a day free skiing, many with my wife skiing free on the pass the resort gave us for families. I've also had paychecks 20 times that size when I never got a nonteaching moment on the hill.

If you want to see what a union does for a labor force, look at the employment levels in the steel industry and the auto industry.
post #22 of 29

Lip Service

For years ski area management and their association have promoted ski instructors as the front line and the ambassadors of the sport. They have made the concept of retention of new skiers an essential plank in their plan for growth and promoted the idea that instructors were essential in that effort. Yet despite this the areas refuse to pay a liveable wage to instructors.

The fact is that areas are not competing fairly or paying a fair wage. The need for foreign workers is necessitated by the fact that Americans won't work for the ski co's anymore. It's pretty funny to think that one of those "jobs that Americans won't do" is teach skiing.

While all of the people on here are defending the rights of these areas to run a monopoly on public lands, I'd like to hear their defense of special work permits being issued to foreign workers to teach skiing here when those workers have no certification or documentable skills in this area. How are those visas being obtained?
post #23 of 29

kneale

Please note that I did preface my posts regarding the "unique" conditions in "cut throat" corridor ... and look forward to a move when I can retire. I thought I was quite careful about that.

No member of my family has ever skied for free. The formulas for getting a free pass involved complex formulas and the criteria was virtually impossible to meet.

At my last area, the policy was clear, no free passes but they could ski for $10 a day. One problem .... they wouldn't start issuing passes till after 9:30 .. if that person was available to issue them at all. My son had to be in boots and on the hill for race by 8:00 so that meant a full price pass ... no discount.

Please read my comment on unions. I advocated for "ethical standards" by schools displaying the PSIA shield. I did not argue for a union. Also note the comment on what is borderline fraud ..... a handfull of certs ... and a chance of getting one almost nil.

Your world is totally different from ours here. Count your lucky stars that you didn't have to go through this part of the learning curve. Your career happened in a better time and a better place.
post #24 of 29

Sidecut

Damned good question. I killed me watching a bunch of South American wedge turners teaching the lions share of the lessons while we stood by.

I suspect that they go under the provisions of "jobs that Americans don't want" ..... and who the hell checks on that.

I suspect that the hill, like Great Adventure theme park provided housing and food .... salary too, since they would use them over us. It used to kill me to watch them at lunch piling up a tray full of food ( that I couldn't afford) ... that's why I think they got unlimited meals.
post #25 of 29

compare and contrast

My last year, I was tempted to sign on as a "Ranger" .... paid by the hour when you clocked in and two free tickets for each 40 hours on the hill.

Mountain "Ambassadors" were given a similiar deal too. Pointing people to the rental shop and rest rooms.

And ... instructors run in the red ... what's wrong with this picture?
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
A few quick points..Understand that I'm not rallying for this....just want to argue and discuss some of the aspects of it.

A few points therusty made. Remember that I am a product of small and major areas both in the east and in the west, and understand the aspects of both sides of that coin.

I agree that it would be a tough sell at a school the size and nature of yours rusty. I think under my fantasy PSIA Union idea that the toughest schools to bring onboard would be the smallest areas with the shortest seasons, and the most part timers. Part timers who have to commute a great distance and spring for seasonal lodging routinely lose thousands over the course of a season....yet they keep at it.

Many western schools are having a hard time attracting full time help too. Some are only requiring 2 weeks of work in the season to get a pass. I was asked to help at a school I worked at 21 yrs ago.....a few days ago because they are short handed. They now have a VERY significant part time staff where they used to have none. We are talking about a school with @ 650 Instructors here.

When I worked back east years ago we got a dollar more an hour for each level of certification....based on no change in work load we calculated that paying dues, attending pin polish clinics etc etc that your break even point would be about 11 years if you passed your cert on the first try. Hardly worth that now is it.....yet we still went and tried it.

T-Square...There is no reason under Fantasy Psia Union that you could not go do exactly what you have been doing. Assume the dues would be $ 50 a year...You'd bail because of that ? There may be bennies available that would prove to be way more than $ 50.00 in thre long run.

Again in Fantasy Union..I wouldn't think a holding a cert level would be required or expected to be in the union. Just join and remain in good standing.

Yuki asked about the cost to the area vs Instructor....now my info for sure has to be wildly out of date....but when I last heard of this (maybe 15 yrs ago) the rate for the School was about 6 times the dues rate for an Instructor....If there is anyone who actually knows the present $$$$$ or percentage...let us know !

I'm about to get pretty busy here with the "Lets Go II" party....I may not get back here as often as I like...Keep going ...I'll do my best to stay connected.

UL
post #27 of 29
Rusty, thanks for the reminder about the PSIA Eastern Discount list. My reaction: couldn't they come up with any more hoops to jump through? Our little area outside Boston often closes around March 1st, with plenty of season left to hit NH and VT for some mid-week mountain skiing. But, hey, sorry, no discount after your area's closed. I have to wonder: what's up with that?

I frankly don't bother any more with the "discounts." I would rather pay full price and keep my dignity intact. I can do without the sighs and rolled eyes and noisy calls to "Al" in the back room asking about discounts for "this guy," all from ticket window clerks younger than my kids who have no clue. Granted, I happen personally to be able to turn my nose up at the discounts without financial pain, but my point is simply that I don't think that anyone is comfortable in the position of appearing to be asking for a favor when so much is given for so little in the form of teaching dedication at our home areas.

I have come to make peace with the idea that I am not going to complain about wages because I (and everyone on this site) are in an industry involving an activity that we all simply love too much. I sometimes liken it to a lop-sided relationship, which we have all been in: we are so addicted to the other person that we put up with all the neglect and underappreciation that they can throw at us and keep coming back for more.

I earnestly and greatly respect all the full-time pros out there who I feel are certainly the backbone of the industry, and who, based on posts on this site alone, have forgotten more about turning skis than I will every know in a million years--guys like you and Kneale and BigE and JohnH who can talk MA for 1/2 hour on a 30-second video while I'm still scratching my head. I'm not mad, just sharing one part-timer's outlook on the reality that I see, FWIW.

JoeB
post #28 of 29

Spread the word!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB
My reaction: couldn't they come up with any more hoops to jump through? Our little area outside Boston often closes around March 1st, with plenty of season left to hit NH and VT for some mid-week mountain skiing. But, hey, sorry, no discount after your area's closed. I have to wonder: what's up with that?
...
I frankly don't bother any more with the "discounts."
...
guys like you and Kneale and BigE and JohnH
Thanks Joe,

You are far too kind. I am just a part timer wanna be who has a long way to go before I get to their level. Those guys are moving targets!

Sometimes, bothering with discounts is well worth it. When I visited Powder mountain at stopped by the ski school to ask about pro deals, they welcomed me with open arms and I got to ski with two of the staff trainers for a 1/2 day. At Snowbird, the cashiers don't even look up. Only tourists pay full price. Because of an injury, I spent the last 2 weeks of my season working as a cashier at the ski school desk. The list and endless variations of discounts is simply astounding. My guess is that half of the dirty looks you might get are simply the result of the cashier thinking "O great, here's another one of these damn things I have to fight the computer to get to process". I used to think working kids camp was the most thankless job in ski school.

I think part of the problem in the East is that many of the resorts that offer pro courtesy offer free skiing. The potential for abuse is high. Another part of the problem is reciprocity. Instead of getting together and agreeing that pros deserve a break on their time off, most of the discount deals are based on whatever you offer, we offer. Because a closed resort can't offer free skiing to an open resort, that's not a reciprocal arrangement. Because of the high turnover of pro staff and the "significant" number of "retired" pros retaining their PSIA membership, there's no guarantee that a visiting member is still an active industry participant. Would standardization and simplification be worth accepting a percent discount on tickets instead of free skiing? I can see the arguments pro and con. In the meantime, I suggest that we appreciate that progress often comes in small steps. If we could get a comprehensive list of resorts published, it might be easier for everyone to see the value in streamlining the process.
post #29 of 29
Rusty, thanks; some valid points to ponder. Hey, next season's a new day, right?
JoeB
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching