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New Boots

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Howdy all.

Had some new Head S10's delivered on Wednesday and I have a couple of minor questions I wanted to pose to you knowlegable ski peeps.

I shamefully admit that I went into the Ski Chalet here in Portland to get measured and to try on some boots and then went out and found a deal online.

First off, I wear a 12 street shoe and was surprised to find myself being fitted for a 28.5 boot. My right foot is 280mm and my left is 285mm.

Despite reporting that my feet felt like they were caught in a bear trap, the sales dude refused to let me try on anything larger than a 28.5 and after all that I've read here, I wasn't inclined to disagree.

Wednesday night I got home from work, immediately attempted to put on the boots and was absolutely horrified by how tight they felt. They were so tight I couldn't even wear the liners by themselves for more than a few minutes at a time. The shell fit was right (a shade under 3/4" behind the heel) with maybe a little less space than I would've liked at the BOF. I have pretty wide feet.

So I put the liners back in and walked around the house for about 5 minutes before my fore feet (the heels and cuffs fit like a glove) start to become really cramped and I decided that these tortures devices are going back to the shop for some size 29's. I decide they're just too narrow at the toes.

Figuring I'd give them one more chance before shipping them back, I tried them on again last night and to my surprise, they felt a HECK of a lot better. They were a lot easier to get into and I was able to walk around for about a half hour before they became uncomfortable again. The right boot (smaller foot) is already almost perfect but the left boot is still squeezing the widest part of my foot too much.

So here's my question: This weekend, I'm planning to drop off the gear and have the new 614's mounted to the new Metron M10's. Since I'm dropping off the boots anyway, should I get the left tow box stretched before I ski the boot? Will a toe box get wider on it's own? Also, does anyone recommend walking around the house in just the liners? Or must they pack out INSIDE the boot to become the correct shape?

Lastly, I just wanted to thank you all. This is a fantastic site and I'm surprised how often I come back here just to see what's going on.
post #2 of 22
Its very common for boot liners to be short lasted. Its probably the number one reason people end up buying a shell size too large. It should be pretty easy for a tech to stretch the toe box and solve your problems. There has been a number of posts here on how to stretch a liner, so I won't repeat. Some times a shell can feel tight without the liner at BOF. Keep in mind the liner and insole will raise your foot to a wider point. If after stretching you have some hot spots caused by the shell, you can get that adjusted as well. For the time being, if you want to keep your toe nails, just stretch the liner.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
LOL!

I love it here. No matter how original I believe my ski question might be, invariably it's been talked about ad nauseum here.

There isn't a single issue I can think of that there aren't a thousand posts already dedicated to...

So leave the shell as is and have the liner stretched, huh? Sounds like sage advice.

I feel like if I had maybe 3-5mm's more at the BOF for each foot, these boots would be an absolute lock for the next few years.

Will walking around in the house in just the liners help?
post #4 of 22
You need a professional competent bootfitter to look at your foot insi the shell without the liner first.

they normally have a device which can spread the overlap of the boot wide open see they can see what is going on with your foot inside the boot. if youir foot is touching the shell, stretching the liner will have absolutely no value.

I would also recommend that they grind the boot in the spots that need more room rather then stretching the shell if the shell is thick enough to be ground. if they grind a little at a time, you can be sure they are not going to over stretch your shell. I much prefer grinding the shell to stretching it.

Once there is room for your foot in the shell (BOF) then you could think about stretching the liner. (I have never had a liner strectched.

The main point here is you need professional assessment of the best remedy!
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
I am dropping off my equipment at "The Mountain Shop" here in Portland tomorrow and they have a professional bootfitter on staff there.

I will do exactly as you advise. Thanks for the help!

The funny thing is that in spite of the fact that these boots felt like Satan's vice grips on Wednesday night, last night they were already more comfortable than anything I've ever rented.
post #6 of 22
Just so you (or Atomicman) don't think I'm crazy, here are some links: And I have stretched several liners, and had boots that were crippeling without this treatment. No disagreement here that a good bootfitter should also check the shell fit before doing anything that would render the boot unreturnable. The new semi-transparent shells are really nice for fitting, as you can see what is going on from the outside.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=31874

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=26603

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=17762

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=19848

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=2134
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Just so you (or Atomicman) don't think I'm crazy, here are some links: And I have stretched several liners, and had boots that were crippeling without this treatment. No disagreement here that a good bootfitter should also check the shell fit before doing anything that would render the boot unreturnable. The new semi-transparent shells are really nice for fitting, as you can see what is going on from the outside.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=31874

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=26603

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=17762

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=19848

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=2134
he said it was too narrow at the toe at first, then after wearing was too tight at the widest part of his foot. I can't see how stretching the length of the liner will help that, particularly if he is already touching the shell with no liner or his toes are banging the shell.

Stretching the liner in thisthat case does no good, because their is no where for it to go.

He never said his toes wear smashed against the end of the boot. I owuld only cut my liner a s avery last resort and never have had to do that. By the way I am currently sking the Head RD 96 in a 27 shell (310mm, very short for a 27) I touched everywhere in this boot when new with no liner in it. needless to say we have ground them and they are currently pretty damn comfy for a plug. although comfort is definetly relative .
post #8 of 22
Your feet will change in size over the course of the day, and it varies depending on what you do. They are smallest in the AM when you wake up. So it's not surprising that a boot would fit one moment, then feel tight another day. Your foot probably got bigger.
post #9 of 22
IMHO, get another pair of boots that fit you better.
It's so strange that the store clerk would not let you try on a size larger! What's the matter with them!!?

FWIW, when I went to the store, wanting Head boots in particular, the store clerk would not let me try them on for the longest time, until I tried all sorts of other boots on. It took hours to convice the clerk to go and get the Head boots I wanted. I bought them. They fit perfectly, and I'm happy with them.

Good Luck with your boots. BTW, I think in order to get used to the boots, before sking, you have to put on both the shells and the liners on.
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skicrazed
IMHO, get another pair of boots that fit you better.
It's so strange that the store clerk would not let you try on a size larger! What's the matter with them!!?

FWIW, when I went to the store, wanting Head boots in particular, the store clerk would not let me try them on for the longest time, until I tried all sorts of other boots on. It took hours to convice the clerk to go and get the Head boots I wanted. I bought them. They fit perfectly, and I'm happy with them.

Good Luck with your boots. BTW, I think in order to get used to the boots, before sking, you have to put on both the shells and the liners on.
good advice on wearing the liners and shell around the house, but boots should not be comfortable when new. If they are theywill be too big.

You should try wearing them everyday and walking in the house in them and progressively lengthen the wearing time.

then have some basic work done on and "ULTRA" trouble spots.

Then ski in them. I many times take one warmup run 9easy terrain) then go into the lodge for 10 minutes and sit down and unbuckle. I am usually good for the rest of the day.

the advantage of having a tight boot to begin with is that you don't have to buckle them tight to stabilize your foot.

Your liners will pack out considerably over time, but it takes 5-7 days of skiing for them to start breaking into your foot. One thing that may help is to have the shop heat theliners on one of the liner heaters from another company and then put them on in the shell while hot. helps shorten the breakin period and slightly break down the liner.

Most peoples boot problems are form the boot being too big. If you are going with a 3/4 finger fit, a race fit inother words, they are going to be damn snug.

the stance (where ithe boot puts you standing relaxed fore/aft is of more importance then width and forefoot issues. thes fit issues are very easy to fix. waht is not as easy is changing ramp angle and forward lean.

I wear a 10 street shoe. I wear a 27 shell, I have a high instep, arch and very wide forefoot. Do you really think the RD 96 (only 96mm wide in the forefoot) fit my foot in any way shape or form.

No, I touched the shell everywhere. but the boot wrapped my slender lower leg so well and locked me in the heel pocket and gave me a nice upright stance so I am not hanging off the front of the boot, that we decided we could make the forefoot fit and any other "hotspots" fit by grinding or last resort punching or stretching!
it was the right decision!
post #11 of 22
Head S-Series have very agressive padding in the ankle and achillies areas. This thick padding often keeps the heel from getting all the way back, hence the feeling that the boot is too short or narrow or both. A good heat session will allow that heel area to open up some. I use 10 minutes on the Lange heater for Heads, and that often mitigates the problem to a great extent. OTH, the shell has a rather unusual shape in the toe area and may need to be worked some as well as the liner. The shell check is the tell tale.

SJ
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diz
should I get the left tow box stretched before I ski the boot? Will a toe box get wider on it's own? Also, does anyone recommend walking around the house in just the liners? Or must they pack out INSIDE the boot to become the correct shape?
I bought a pair of boots at the begining of last year. The right toe box pinched / pressured on the outside of my right foot (6th toe) I wanted to punch it but because it was bearable I left it. Bit by bit it has either gotten better or my foot has become more accustomed to being in the boot.

Now it's at the point it's hardly even noticable until very late in the day and then I just unbuckle the two toe buckles on the lift up and snap closed with my pole at the top. This is after a full ski day. 1 hour off hill for coffee and lunch combined skiing mostly off piste.

I guess it depends but I would put at least a few days for sure in before doing any mods. Boots are a funny thing they change quick sometimes and they will pack out.
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Okay folks, I only had to work a half day today so I decided to take the gear in this afternoon and save Saturday for the tree planting project my wife has planned. (Hey, she let's me buy my toys.)

It was slow at the shop, so I got to spend about a half hour with the bootfitter and you guys were right, he opened up the shell to see what my foot looked like in it.

The embarrassing part is that when he had me get into the boots and buckle everything up, they felt great. I was like, "Uhhh, I'm not sure why I'm here, these boots feel perfect." The fitter liked the boot for my foot and he said he'd be very surprised if I came back with any issues after a day's worth of skiing in them. He told me to ski them for the rest of this season and then come back in for some footbeds.

So I am here to confirm that you guys are spot on about how boots should fit right out of the box. THEY SHOULD BE VERY, VERY TIGHT!!! I never in a million years would have thought these boots were the right size the first time I tried them on but they feel better every time I buckle up.

Amazing!

I pick up the gear on Wednesday so now my biggest problem is figuring out how to sound sick over the phone on Thursday morning!
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diz
Okay folks, I only had to work a half day today so I decided to take the gear in this afternoon and save Saturday for the tree planting project my wife has planned. (Hey, she let's me buy my toys.)

It was slow at the shop, so I got to spend about a half hour with the bootfitter and you guys were right, he opened up the shell to see what my foot looked like in it.

The embarrassing part is that when he had me get into the boots and buckle everything up, they felt great. I was like, "Uhhh, I'm not sure why I'm here, these boots feel perfect." The fitter liked the boot for my foot and he said he'd be very surprised if I came back with any issues after a day's worth of skiing in them. He told me to ski them for the rest of this season and then come back in for some footbeds.

So I am here to confirm that you guys are spot on about how boots should fit right out of the box. THEY SHOULD BE VERY, VERY TIGHT!!! I never in a million years would have thought these boots were the right size the first time I tried them on but they feel better every time I buckle up.

Amazing!

I pick up the gear on Wednesday so now my biggest problem is figuring out how to sound sick over the phone on Thursday morning!
glad it worked out for you!
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diz
Okay folks, I only had to work a half day today so I decided to take the gear in this afternoon and save Saturday for the tree planting project my wife has planned. (Hey, she let's me buy my toys.)

It was slow at the shop, so I got to spend about a half hour with the bootfitter and you guys were right, he opened up the shell to see what my foot looked like in it.

The embarrassing part is that when he had me get into the boots and buckle everything up, they felt great. I was like, "Uhhh, I'm not sure why I'm here, these boots feel perfect." The fitter liked the boot for my foot and he said he'd be very surprised if I came back with any issues after a day's worth of skiing in them. He told me to ski them for the rest of this season and then come back in for some footbeds.

So I am here to confirm that you guys are spot on about how boots should fit right out of the box. THEY SHOULD BE VERY, VERY TIGHT!!! I never in a million years would have thought these boots were the right size the first time I tried them on but they feel better every time I buckle up.

Amazing!

I pick up the gear on Wednesday so now my biggest problem is figuring out how to sound sick over the phone on Thursday morning!
Hmm, no offense, but maybe you should have given your business to Ski Chalet- after all, they set you up with the right size boot which you would have never bought the right size boot. So they probably saved you from a costly mistake. There are not too many places that know boots and they deserve to be supported. Otherwise we will be forced to buy our stuff all online, or in places like my local sports store where I recently watched the salesman merrily selling his customer a ski boot that was 0.5 size BIGGER than his street shoe (the sales dude suggested doubling up the sock!). Professional stores (and especially professional bootfitters) deserve our support.
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn
Hmm, no offense, but maybe you should have given your business to Ski Chalet- after all, they set you up with the right size boot which you would have never bought the right size boot. So they probably saved you from a costly mistake. There are not too many places that know boots and they deserve to be supported. Otherwise we will be forced to buy our stuff all online, or in places like my local sports store where I recently watched the salesman merrily selling his customer a ski boot that was 0.5 size BIGGER than his street shoe (the sales dude suggested doubling up the sock!). Professional stores (and especially professional bootfitters) deserve our support.
FWIW, though I did not buy my boots there, I have and will continue to spend money there. They're only like a mile from where I work, have a great selection of outerwear and THAT my friends, is something I will only purchase after coming out of a dressing room.
post #17 of 22
I really hate it when the sells guy get in the way pick out the boot for u like you don't know what you're doing. This is what happened to me at princeton Long Island. I want to try out more boot but this guy keep saying that my wide feet can only fit that brand and is in between me and the other boots that I want to try. I hate that guy so much cause I have a feeling that he didn't think I could afford anything more than $300.....he was so wrong cause I was looking to spend anything for something that fit with cash
post #18 of 22

Boot Fitting

Always expect a tightish fit in the shop. I found that by removing the footbed I had more room. As previous posts said all boot liners compress with time more so if you are an advanced skier. To improve comfort in new boots for the first few runs ski with them partly or fully unbuckled. Another important thing is forward flex and lean. When I bought my last boots I took my old ones in to compare flex and lean which should feel the same unless you are wanting to progress to racing type speeds.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina
Another important thing is forward flex and lean. When I bought my last boots I took my old ones in to compare flex and lean which should feel the same unless you are wanting to progress to racing type speeds.
I agree that if you like to have similar boots to your old ones you should look also at those issues. But it is very difficult to compare flex of two different boots in shop at room temperature. Both boots have different material with different characteristic of changes in flex vs temperature. So, if you feel they are same in thre shop, you might be suprised later on the slope.
post #20 of 22
There is a good "tool" for interacting with questionable "boot sales" people. After you make your inquiry and given a description of what kind of skier you are and what type of boot you might consider, the sales person will likely select a boot from thier inventory for your consideration. You might take the boot in your hands, turning it this way and that,etc. Calmly make sure that all the buckles and the booster strap are free . Then in one swift move, bend down, place the boot on the floor and rapidly extract the liner. Deftly slip your lightly socked foot into the shell as you now carefully inspect the liner.

There! You have told the salesman your no dope, cause you are already starting the shell fit process. You also get your first impression, and you have an idea if the liner has too much "fluff". Now you can talk about fit.

Some store sales folks hate it when you do that, 'cause the liners can be hard to get back in. That's good to know too!.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctown
I really hate it when the sells guy get in the way pick out the boot for u like you don't know what you're doing. This is what happened to me at princeton Long Island. I want to try out more boot but this guy keep saying that my wide feet can only fit that brand and is in between me and the other boots that I want to try. I hate that guy so much cause I have a feeling that he didn't think I could afford anything more than $300.....he was so wrong cause I was looking to spend anything for something that fit with cash
Why would he think you can't afford something more than $300? I can't imagine how a salesdroid would come to that conclusion. I've often gone to shops looking like a bag person who parked his cart outside and I've never had a problem getting as much service as I wanted. Of course, I live in a very casual area, but still.

I also don't see how a salesdroid could prevent you from trying on whatever you want? Just say "I know they won't fit, but..." and tell him you'll take your business elsewhere if he can't accomdate you.
post #22 of 22
Take them back to where you got them and get them to do the work it should be no charge.
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