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# Dan Dipiro's Mogul Book - Page 20

Rusty, this is really about "touch" and its a very relevant discussion.  Its very macroscopic to say simply we are absorbing the front of the bump, so therefore we slow down.  There is a lot more to it then that.  False physics will never get anyone to the truth, and its in the details like this where it matters.  In the end, I suspect a lot of people do things intuitively the right way, even if they are talking about it wrong.  Sense of touch is something that a lot of people do by feel without consciously being aware of what they are doing many times.

We use a sense to touch to interact with the pressures which are created as the bump face comes under our skis.  Flexion is the bio mechanical means by which we can adjust exactly how that pressure either builds or is prevented from building and we do it in a dynamic way....over time....  We don't have to release all the pressure all at once.  When we flex we are reducing pressure, by a variable amount.  Absorbing it.  That is definitely how we prevent the bump snow reaction force from launching us skyward.  I think everyone understands that.

But how do we slow down with pressure then?  If we flex so much as to completely eliminate that snow reaction force, then we would in that case also be eliminating slowing effects of the bump.  In order to slow down we have to reduce the amount of absorption or flexion so that its not entirely so perfect, at least initially.  As we approach the crest of the bump, if we want to stay on the snow, the absorption has to become more perfect, at the expense of reduced speed control.  We are capable of using our sense of touch in a variable manner, particularly if its starting from one end of a spectrum and increasing to the other end of the spectrum.  For example, at the base of the face of the bump, we flex/absorb less, receiving and embracing the pressure, which we feel as touch.  And we can be in the process of gradually ramping up the flexion efforts as we move up the face of the bump, so that by the time we reach the top we are absorbing much more and through sense of touch feel ourselves become very light with little pressure right at the crest of the bump.

Also, its somewhat debatable about whether absorption on a virtual bump is not also applicable in some cases, so I don't think this is only applicable to bumps, though clearly its intuitively obvious that in order to avoid turning a bump into a jump or a tripping device, you have to absorb it in some way.  Let's say its perhaps more mandatory in bump skiing then groomer skiing, but the concept of absorbing turn forces at the end of a turn can also apply...the virtual bump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

I'm not contradicting this. Absorption and extension slows you down and I'm telling you why. It allows you to weight your skis on flat sections instead of steep sections, just like walking down stairs, just like Dan says in his book. Read my other posts, on this. The engineering analysis is very solid. Absorption by itself does nothing to slow you down; it only works in combination with extension.

TE, agree with you! , though I will say its not necessarily a requirement to extend to create pressure, though that can do it too.  You can be creating pressure on the face of a bump simply be flexing less-then-enough to perfectly absorb it.  The flat section right before the face is kind of part of the face, it may be flat relative to gravity, but its also angled a bit against the direction of travel, so there is opportunity to resist against that surface and create slowing.  Me personally I don't think that is a particularly good place to be extending, most likely you're fully extended by the time you get there, but as the aspect changes from steep to flat, flexion can begin...and its a question of holding back some of the flexing until after the flat section, in order to resist against the pressure created by running into that flatter section...

On the back side, steeper section we have to extend and during that phase I think pressure does not contribute to slowing down.  That becomes more like the pump track Kook loves.  During that phase we extend simply to maintain contact with the snow and maintain enough pressure to edge the skis and actually get some edging performance of some kind.   The speed control on that part of the bump will not come directly from the pressure, but more from the edging, which requires enough pressure to accomplish it, but not so much as to pump yourself faster down the steep section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

When you absorb, you are pulling your feet up.  When you pull your feet up you are weightless.  When you are weightless you have little friction.  When you have little friction you don't slow down.  Absorbing the bump only prepares you to skid down the backside as you extend and weight your skis on the next flattish area (for Tog), which are the actions that produce friction to slow you down.

Josh Foster suggests retracting your landing gear, this manages the pressure(weightless=little friction) this is when you can redirect your skis.  It is hard to pivot or redirect when the ski is heavy, so 'weightless' is advantageous for changing direction.

Adding a tips down input post retraction will make them heavier and drift them at the top of the turn, thus controlling momentum and line.

Just a quick note to any prospective bumpers.... you don't need to be an engineer or physicist to ski the bumps!!!!! I never ever think about all the stuff these guys are talking about, cripes!

Here's all I really think about when skiing bumps:

- hands up and out front

- shoulders square with the hill

- solid pole plants for ever turn

- fight like hell to keep skis on the snow

- be friendly, gentle and smooth with your bumpy friends

Think conservation of angular momentum.

^^^ yet another look. The Canadians love this drill. Time mark 19;10

I think TE's right about as you gain speed absorption pressure to slow down works less. Less opportunity, harder to do.

Tball, you've never been above the bull wheel in the lift housing at Mary Jane? This is what you'll see:

jack97, you have any sources for these S Fearing videos maybe in English?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack97

^^^ yet another look. The Canadians love this drill. Time mark 19;10

Good stuff / good camera work.   After the A&E at the 19:10 you next see how

the knees deflect to the outside allowing the mass to keep flowing down the hill.

Would be great to have a couple days on such terrain features...

I think some people have the words "absorb" and "avoid" mixed up.

When there's talk about finishing the turn to gain speed control, I'm all in.

Nail

Quote:

After the A&E at the 19:10 you next see how

the knees deflect to the outside allowing the mass to keep flowing down the hill.

Is it just me or do the skiers knees appear to deflect to the "inside" of the turn?

Is the old inside now the new outside?

Why is everything so different down the zipperline?

Nail

Quote:
Originally Posted by tball

Before you drop out, take a look at Blake skiing the zipper line slowly starting at 55 seconds:

You don't have to ski the zipper line fast.  I think skiing the zipper line slowly is a much more approachable goal for most skiers to work toward.

And that's exactly where I find myself now. I had seen and even studied Blake's video a good year ago, but couldn't really comprehend the differences between his different shots. As I jubilantly recounted in post #301 above, on my second to the last day of this past season I had a huge "Eureka" moment when I finally got my weight far enough forward. Prior to that, my only method of speed control when the bumps got big and the slope got steep was to shop for my turns "on the next bump over". Sure, I could ski smaller bumps on gentler slopes with kind of a zipper-y technique, but that was only when speed wasn't an issue. When I finally recruited the design of the whole ski into controlling speed (duh!) I could not only drop into the zipper line, I could finally see it for the first time. That has allowed me to understand and glean some real knowledge from threads like this.  I'm looking forward to a whole new world being opened to me next fall. And, if Ullr smiles on California, maybe I can come reasonably close to Blake's "slow Example A".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender

Is it just me or do the skiers knees appear to deflect to the "inside" of the turn?

Is the old inside now the new outside?

Why is everything so different down the zipperline?

Nail

@nailbender relative to the turn you may be correct - I didn't consider it from a turn perspective since so little turning occurs.

Relative to the hill and his feet and hips the knees deviate father from the fall line

This is to allow for a larger range of motion if needed and keep the core flowing down the hill
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe

Quote:
Originally Posted by tball

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox

s a portable skill as well.  The same moves you might make to stick to the tightest bump lines will serve you well in tight trees and rocky steeps and anywhere else the line gets mandatory.

Agreed.  That's why it just doesn't compute that @bounceswoosh is spending a lot of time skiing steeps and trees, but her instructor doesn't think she's ready for the zipper line.  And, her instructor is a former mogul competitor, no less.

Bumps are the perfect low consequence place to practice for trees and steeps.  I think mastering ALL turn types in the bumps really is the key to being a great all-mountain skier.   Steeps and trees are generally bumped out shortly after a storm, so many of the same techniques apply.   And, really tight steeps and trees often start to look very much like a zipper line, as noted by @Abox.

Okay, well there is something we can agree on! Good points.

(Although when I'm skiing something really steep I do like to do this thing called "finishing a turn.)

Maybe my lack of practice "finishing a turn" is why I bit it in the gnarly scrapy steep bumped out chute at 1:30 in this video

I think that video is a great example of how bump skills translate into steeps.   There's a zipper, but no way I could zipper line that second chute

No doubt non-zipper line bump skills are useful there.  In the first chute I'm able to ski a more direct line and make a few more zipper-like turn, but it's really the longer going-around-the-bump style that applies to how I ski both chutes.  Maybe I should practice that more.

(p.s. No need to muck up this thread with MA as I've already got some great suggestions over here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/134079/steep-ma-request)

Originally Posted by tball

Maybe my lack of practice "finishing a turn" is why I bit it in the gnarly scrapy steep bumped out chute at 1:30 in this video

You meant to do that, right?   ;-)

Regardless, that was one smooth and stylish recovery! And admirable skiing overall!

Well done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tball

Maybe my lack of practice "finishing a turn" is why I bit it in the gnarly scrapy steep bumped out chute at 1:30 in this video

I think that video is a great example of how bump skills translate into steeps.   There's a zipper, but no way I could zipper line that second chute

No doubt non-zipper line bump skills are useful there.  In the first chute I'm able to ski a more direct line and make a few more zipper-like turn, but it's really the longer going-around-the-bump style that applies to how I ski both chutes.  Maybe I should practice that more.

(p.s. No need to muck up this thread with MA as I've already got some great suggestions over here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/134079/steep-ma-request)

I was thinking that looks pretty nice, until you get to those nasty bumps preceding the 1:35 recovery.

A zipperline is the ideal, pragmatic skiing will always send me around the going around the bump in a rounder turn ironically finishing the turn to boot.  I still hold to the zipper ideal in committing back into the fall line.  At times I sideslip before I traverse, a skill/tactic better suited to narrow chutes.

Great skiing there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog

jack97, you have any sources for these S Fearing videos maybe in English?

No luck.... still looking. IMO, it's ironic that the Asian countries have really embraced mogul skiing, more so than the country that started the sport. I guess it's analogous to volleyball.

Quote:

Would be great to have a couple days on such terrain features...

Look for a skicross course. One of the smaller to medium size ski area around my neck of the woods has one. They place a set of rollers, three to four and then it goes two bank curves.

Quote:

@nailbender relative to the turn you may be correct - I didn't consider it from a turn perspective since so little turning occurs.

Believe it or not, I actually like this guys bump skiing.

I have to disagree though, I see a lot of turning and when he gets up to speed, the turns are quite round and he is also using the deflected carve turn, he is not using the pivot skid. I really like the turns around 24:00.

There are some really good side view clips in that video.

Specifically take a look at 24:26, you can clearly see he is "extending" into the turn finish properly and as soon as his feet crest the top of the bump, he retracts to release and regain shovel edge contact down the top 1/3 of the backside, he's floating after the bump and not before it as done, he then proceeds to slowly extend into the next turn finish.

This is exactly the timing I have been writing about.  He is not intentionally "flexing" to absorb anything, in fact his knees are the most open just as his boots crest the top of the bump just as I have been saying.

You can see this proper timing in several other side shots.  He floats, with knees flexed, down the top 1/3 of the next backside. He's very relaxed as he knows he will not sharply extend until he actually banks off the mogul sidewall below.

Can you see this?

Nail

Edited by Nailbender - 4/24/15 at 4:12pm
Quote:

Tball wrote:

Maybe my lack of practice "finishing a turn" is why I bit it in the gnarly scrapy steep bumped out chute at 1:30 in this video

You are onto something there.

You can definitely make a "crisper" finish, but it's the lack of commitment to the release, retraction, is where the trouble starts.

That chute is gnarly as far as I'm concerned, I thought overall it's the best skiing you've posted of yourself.

You are actually making most of your turns by turning into the mogul sidewall and face like I promote.  The helmet cam shows it clearly, your are turning into any pile of snow you approach, that's the technical line.  I think the reason you get backseat and take the tumble is simply that you are not as familiar skiing the technical line as the zipper.

I think you should spend some time skiing the technical line each day to improve your timing and confidence as you commit to the release, it will come in handy.  You can really get a lot of control if you jam your inside foot down and forward exactly at the moment you plant your pole.  This "marks" the turn finish.

I am not saying I would ski that chute any faster than you, I think I would just have more confidence attacking it with this tactic, my movements would be sharper and quicker, but I probably wouldn't ski it any faster, nasty consequences there.

Nail

Edited by Nailbender - 4/23/15 at 9:09pm

Off topic, but in case you want to look at it, USSA (aka US Ski Team), has videos on DartFish including Moguls

http://www.dartfish.tv/ChannelHome.aspx?CR=p1490

See Exercises by Skill > Freestyle

1.  A&E.  When you drive in a car over bumps, perfect shock absorbers will keep the car moving in a straight line, so that you couldn't even tell that you are driving over bumps.  Likewise, complete absorption and extension will keep your center of mass (COM) moving in a straight line.  This will take an exact amount of pressure at all points and result in an associated terminal velocity.  Any variation from this exact amount of pressure will result in deviations of the COM off of this straight line.  This is not completely absorbing or extending.  So, when we talk about more or less pressure at a particular spot, we're talking about not completely absorbing and extending to control speed.  Does perfect absorption and extension result in the lowest possible terminal velocity?  I haven't taken the time to answer this, but my intuition says there will be situations where it will be and situations where it won't be, but the faster you go the less you will be able to tolerate deviations of your COM off of the straight line for a smooth ride, and large deviations will not result in the slowest speed.

2.  Many discussions and definitions treat moguls as natural, unmovable features.  The truth is that they are made by skiers (mostly) and change over time.  For example, the troughs form by skiers consistently skiing over the same path.  The skis dig this lowest point by compressing the snow or pushing it to the side.  The troughs represent the net effect of the average path of the skiers, the road most traveled.  The style of the population of skiers determines the shape of the trough (how direct, how curved, how abrupt...).  When someone discusses picking a path other than the trough, it means picking a path different than the majority of the skiers that made those moguls.  If the majority of the skiers are making slow round turns, the trough will have a large angle, and a skier may take a more direct path that's not as angled.  But, if the whole population takes the same direct path, the troughs will reform under these skiers, and this direct path will now be in the troughs.  I've seen it happen, I've made it happen, it must happen because troughs are dug by the skis.  When skiers turn very little, the troughs are pointed almost straight down the hill, and there isn't a more direct path.  So, sometimes the fastest, most direct line will be in the troughs, sometimes it won't depending on the type of skiers on the mountain.  And, defining paths based on the shape of the moguls is only useful for a given population of skiers.  On a competition course, if all of the skiers are the same skill level skiing the same path, eventually they must all be skiing in the troughs if the slope is given enough time to reform (can happen in just a few loops if there's enough traffic and the surface is soft enough).  Proposals that everyone ski a line other than the trough is not sustainable, because if everyone skis a different path, the troughs will reform in that new path.  Also, if everyone is skiing a random path there will be no moguls.  Consistent moguls are formed by most people taking the same path.  So, path choice outside the trough is only defined by picking a different path than most other skiers.  If you have a really great ride not in the troughs you might want to keep it secret, because it probably relies on everyone else skiing differently.

3.  From reading many threads, it appears that many people believe speed control in the zipper line is from banging (colliding) into a bump, therefore it's hard on the body.  A&E along with scarving provides unlimited speed control for smooth, low impact zipper line skiing.  I know we've all seen many examples of recreational skiers banging into moguls, but that's bad skiing, and it's an unfortunate negative endorsement.  I would have to agree with Dan, that few people really understand A&E, and how it provides smooth, low impact, zipper line skiing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

1.  A&E.  When you drive in a car over bumps, perfect shock absorbers will keep the car moving in a straight line, so that you couldn't even tell that you are driving over bumps.  Likewise, complete absorption and extension will keep your center of mass (COM) moving in a straight line.  ...

This is one place where you're getting off track.  Think about the timing, and go back and think about swingsets and halfpipes.

Edited by CTKook - 5/3/15 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

This is one place where you're getting off track.  Think about the timing, and go back and think about swingsets and halfpipes.

+1

When Fearing does that A&E drill on the set of rollers, he could have easily change his timing with his CoM and  'pop' off from one the rollers. Exactly the way a mogul freestyler would pop from the kickers and get that rise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jack97

+1

When Fearing does that A&E drill on the set of rollers, he could have easily change his timing with his CoM and  'pop' off from one the rollers. Exactly the way a mogul freestyler would pop from the kickers and get that rise.

That's a choice not to absorb the bump.  There's nothing wrong with that.  You don't have to fully absorb every bump or fully extend into every trough, unless you want your COM to maintain a straight line down the slope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook

This is one place where you're getting off track.  Think about the timing, and go back and think about swingsets and halfpipes.

Absorbing and extending is smoothing out the bumps for your COM.  Anything else is a different action in the bumps.  For example, typically twice during a run a mogul skier will jump way up in the air.  At this moment they are not absorbing nor extending, but jumping.  For the most control and the smoothest ride at fast speeds, you'll need your skis in contact with the snow, and your COM moving down the trail in a straight line which takes perfect absorption and extension.  It's ok to deviate from this for all sorts of fun, just don't call it absorbing and extending.

You absorb bumps by pulling the feet up when you go over a bump to keep the center of mass from moving up.  If you don't pull the feet up at all, you'll jump in the air.  This is called not absorbing the bump.  If you pull the feet up a little bit, so that you only go in the air a little, it's called partially absorbing.  Pulling the feet up or pushing them down at the wrong times will not allow you to absorb the terrain and your COM will deviate from a straight line.  The point of absorbing and extending is to smooth out the terrain by pulling the feet up and pushing them down at the right times to maintain a constant COM.  Sometimes, such as when jumping, you don't want to maintain a straight line for your COM and you will stop absorbing and extending in synchronization with the terrain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

That's a choice not to absorb the bump.  There's nothing wrong with that.  You don't have to fully absorb every bump or fully extend into every trough, unless you want your COM to maintain a straight line down the slope.

It's not the null hypothesis (choose to do nothing). When they pop off the kicker, they extend to project the CoM up and forward. Check how a ski jumper times their pop off the ramp @:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

Absorbing and extending is smoothing out the bumps for your COM. ....................  It's ok to deviate from this for all sorts of fun, just don't call it absorbing and extending.

You absorb bumps by pulling the feet up when you go over a bump to keep the center of mass from moving up........................

It's hard to believe you guys are 20 pages into this thread and most of you are still throwing terms around.

The way I understand it (see the first quote above) the process is FLEXION and EXTENSION.  Bob Barnes mentions flexing along with the video he posted as did Buttinski (post 563) in this thread.

In reference to the 2nd quote highlighted above by The Engineer......yeah.......that's one way.  Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned there is a major difference in whether you actively or passively absorb.  Here is an overview of something I found written by one of the masters......Georges Joubert.

"Joubert preached that in moguls or in deep ruts of a race course, a skier would have to use Avalement or the use of his or her lower legs to absorb terrain. There are two kinds of Avalement: passive and active. Passive Avalement, also known as Reploiment, is when a skier allows terrain, such as moguls, to push their legs (ankles, knees, and hips) toward their upper body. Active Avalement or commonly referred to as Avalement is when a skier consciously retracts or sucks up their legs to manage terrain and pressure. Avalement is similar to retraction of the lower legs. Joubert cites the fact that at faster speeds skiers need to anticipate movements in their body to manage or deal with terrain."

So.............to sum things up we  FLEX by using either Avalement or Reploiment and EXTEND to complete the process.  Which type of FLEXION you use depends on all the usual things.....intent, speed terrain etc etc etc.

Edited by Uncle Louie - 5/3/15 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie

It's hard to believe you guys are 20 pages into this thread and most of you are still throwing terms around.

The way I understand it (see the first quote above) the process is FLEXION and EXTENSION.  Bob Barnes mentions flexing along with the video he posted as did Buttinski (post 563) in this thread.

In reference to the 2nd quote highlighted above by The Engineer......yeah.......that's one way.  Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned there is a major difference in whether you actively or passively absorb.  Here is an overview of something I found written by one of the masters......George Joubert.

"Joubert preached that in moguls or in deep ruts of a race course, a skier would have to use Avalement or the use of his or her lower legs to absorb terrain. There are two kinds of Avalement: passive and active. Passive Avalement, also known as Reploiment, is when a skier allows terrain, such as moguls, to push their legs (ankles, knees, and hips) toward their upper body. Active Avalement or commonly referred to as Avalement is when a skier consciously retracts or sucks up their legs to manage terrain and pressure. Avalement is similar to retraction of the lower legs. Joubert cites the fact that at faster speeds skiers need to anticipate movements in their body to manage or deal with terrain."

So.............to sum things up we  FLEX by using either Avalement or Reploiment and EXTEND to complete the process.  Which type of FLEXION you use depends on all the usual things.....intent, speed terrain etc etc etc.

Absorption actually denotes something different than flexion.

While I wouldn't normally word it this way, flexion with appropriate timing can result in absorption.  The timing is however a critical element, and because absorption can involve other dynamics in addition to flexing the legs, focusing solely on flexion is inadequate.

For bumps as a focus, it's called absorption (and has been for some time) for a reason, and it is not an idiosyncratic or unusual term; neither is it a version of a marketing-driven attempt to remake and then trademark/copyright terms.  So, should be fair usage..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie

It's hard to believe you guys are 20 pages into this thread and most of you are still throwing terms around.

The way I understand it (see the first quote above) the process is FLEXION and EXTENSION.  Bob Barnes mentions flexing along with the video he posted as did Buttinski (post 563) in this thread.

This thread is titled Dan Dipiro's mogul book, and in that book he calls it absorption and extension.  As far as I can remember, he never once called if flexion and extension, though I can see the merit in those terms.  So far, I've come across the term absorption and extension much more often.

Jonney Moseley says to actively pull the feet up, quote below.  The Canadian Freestyle team says to pull the legs up video below.  So, there must be some merit to actively absorbing for high speed mogul skiing.  Listen to the description of absorption in the video at 4:40.  They both are not just saying it's enough just to keep the COM from being pushed up.  They are saying don't even let the bump push up your skis.  If you pull up your skis instead of letting the bump push them up, it will pull your COM even lower to prepare for the next extension.  At fast speeds, don't let that COM get pushed higher.

"The backside of a mogul is actually very steep. It could be 35, maybe even 38, degrees. When you come up over the top of a bump, you have to step onto its backside and onto your new downhill ski immediately. If you let yourself ride even to the toe of your boots before you start to turn, by the time your skis hit the snow, you will have fallen two or three feet into the trough below the bump. And if you fall two to three feet when it’s that steep, you’re going to pick up an exponential amount of speed with each bump. That’s what people do. They get air, they land hard, their feet shoot out from under them, then they hit the next bump, catch more air, land again and soon they’re gone. You’ll make three to five turns and blow up.

As you come across the top of a bump, you have to get your upper body out over the top of your uphill ski, which will quickly become your new downhill ski. Everyone does this when they’re skiing normally. When you’re doing a GS turn, you have a lot of time to do it. In bumps, this move needs to happen so much faster.

A major key is a pre-jump, which is supposedly an alpine racing technique but we all use it. It’s what you do when you jump a cliff or come over a knoll. Think of the crest of a mogul as a chain-link fence. You walk up to it, squat down, explode up as hard as you can, throw your hips through and up, and at the apex of the jump, you suck your feet up. That’s how you jump anything. Don’t let the mogul push your feet: Actively suck them up. Jump before you get to the crest of a mogul, pull your feet up and over, land softly and high on the backside then skid to dump speed."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie

"Joubert preached that in moguls or in deep ruts of a race course, a skier would have to use Avalement or the use of his or her lower legs to absorb terrain. There are two kinds of Avalement: passive and active. Passive Avalement, also known as Reploiment, is when a skier allows terrain, such as moguls, to push their legs (ankles, knees, and hips) toward their upper body. Active Avalement or commonly referred to as Avalement is when a skier consciously retracts or sucks up their legs to manage terrain and pressure. Avalement is similar to retraction of the lower legs. Joubert cites the fact that at faster speeds skiers need to anticipate movements in their body to manage or deal with terrain."

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Engineer

This thread is titled Dan Dipiro's mogul book, and in that book he calls it absorption and extension.  As far as I can remember, he never once called if flexion and extension, though I can see the merit in those terms.  So far, I've come across the term absorption and extension much more often.

Jonney Moseley says to actively pull the feet up, quote below.  The Canadian Freestyle team says to pull the legs up video below.  So, there must be some merit to actively absorbing for high speed mogul skiing.  Listen to the description of absorption in the video at 4:40.  They both are not just saying it's enough just to keep the COM from being pushed up.  They are saying don't even let the bump push up your skis.  If you pull up your skis instead of letting the bump push them up, it will pull your COM even lower to prepare for the next extension.  At fast speeds, don't let that COM get pushed higher.

So given Joubet's description, Avalement and Extension would be far more accurate would it not ?  That would coincide with what the Canadian Freestyle team and Jonney Mosleley say above.

You and Dan make my point quite nicely.  If you are going to call it absorbtion you open the door to including the PASSIVE absorbtion (reploiment) that Jobert speaks of, which is accepted by many national systems and noted individuals in the industry.

Now in post 512 in this thread in the Mogul Logic video at 41 seconds we hear you start with a release (passive) then pull your feet back (active).  So the skier in that video tells us to use both Avalement and Reploiment.

Now in the Chuck Martin video linked to in post 519 at 26 seconds we hear speed control is achieved 50% by the turns "and the other 50% comes from the absorbtion of the knees up and DOWN"  .............OK.....so now absorbtion is also extension.

So while Dan refers to it as "absorbtion and extension"  in his brain he is probably totally accurate.  To some of the rest of us.....not so much.  I fully agree that in the field of competitive mogul skiing (especially the zipper line)  it's a pretty rare event to passively absorb a mogul.  So in his head absorbing probably means Avalement or ACTIVE absorbtion by pulling the feet either up or back. That is the move he uses.....that is what he calls absorbtion.  Is it ??????

I like this tack. Thanks for jumping in, @Uncle Louie ,with your take. It's allowing me to connect a few more dots.

Two seasons ago (a couple of weeks after the Utah get together) I was in the one day bump camp at Winter Park and was introduced for the first time to Active Avalement (my coach called it a dolphin-like move, and it's been characterized as a "backwards bicycle pedaling" move in other threads here, most memorably by Bob Barnes). Once I actually performed it for a rare turn, maybe one out of fifty, I found it hugely paradoxical that it would slow me down. The move made me feel like I was launching myself into thin air, which should result in a face plant. But, miraculously, my skis were always right there under me, and in complete control. To launch myself in that way went against everything my brain was telling me should slow me down. The natural instinct was to dig in my heels (literally, in retrospect). It was initially very disorienting, and in fact, that night I wrote in my Bump Notes: "Trust that projecting the upper body down the hill will be effective in slowing down". The more actively I pulled my feet up towards my butt, the more that turn controlled my speed. It still feels a little weird, and it takes impeccable timing to get it right: after another whole season, I still only get it about one out of ten turns. Much to think about and visualize over the long, hot summer...

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