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PMTS Camp - Arapahoe Basin  

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
Attended the 4 day PMTS All Mountain Camp last week at A-Basin. Had great snow, got some alignment work done on my boots, demoed SuperShapes for 3 days and made some huge advances in my skiing. All in all a fantastic experience. Was coached by Harald Harb for the first two days and then had Diana Rogers for two days. Can't say enough about the level of professionalism of both. Both are superb teachers in my book and have an uncanny knack for instantly identifying problems in your skiing.

Decided to purchase the Supershapes based on the demo experience. They are an unreal ski and instantly made a difference in my skiing. I have been skiing Dynastar 8000's for two seasons and the Supershapes blew them away.

The combination of expert alignment and boot fitting, with off the charts instruction is unbeatable. I am already signed up for next year and recommend the camps with out any reservations. You will be doing yourself a BIG favor by attending.

I am proud to be called a "Kool-Aid Drinker"
post #2 of 40
I did a PMTS Blue/Dark Blue camp in November 2004. Great experience. I learned a lot that I've passed on to my clients. I was impressed by Harald, Diana, and Joe and their ability to tailor the lessons to the client's expectations and desires. They are all great skiiers and excellent instructors.
post #3 of 40
Are you sure you two just aren't a couple of "Epic sabateurs", trying to encouarge subversive elements onto the PMTS website with fancified accounts of the program's success?
post #4 of 40
as we all know so well, pmts is the answer and there is not a single psia member in colorado that has a clue.

if we could just hire harald as the moderator here we'd get you two lambasted, banned, and be done with it.

glad you had a nice camp
post #5 of 40
I have no doubt that the PMTS camps are great learning experiences. If you leave with your mind still open to new and different ideas and incorporate things that work for you into your skiing that's fantastic and that's what it's all about. Good Skiing!
post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
I have no doubt that the PMTS camps are great learning experiences. If you leave with your mind still open to new and different ideas and incorporate things that work for you into your skiing that's fantastic and that's what it's all about. Good Skiing!
i'm sure everyone left the camp with a message to be opened minded.

i bet most also left with a pair of head skis shoved down their throat.
post #7 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
i'm sure everyone left the camp with a message to be opened minded.

i bet most also left with a pair of head skis shoved down their throat.
Who in the hell gave you punks the authority to question what I post? What the hell business is it of yours if I had a great experience at a PMTS camp? Is this the PSIA forum?

Why don't you get a life? The camp WAS fantastic and I had an absolute blast. Don't like that? Tough sh*t.

I demoed the Supershapes at my request, for free for 3 1/2 days of hard skiing. Not that it's any of your business idiot, but I bought them online after I returned home. Nobody encouraged me in the least to buy anything.

I am not going to bullied by you losers so take a leap.
post #8 of 40
Knock it off
post #9 of 40
Thread Starter 
I left the camp a better skier. That's what I paid for. The juvenile attacks on anything PMTS related are getting a bit old by the way.

When it reaches a point where people feel intimidated when trying to post anything about a valid teaching method, I think it is time for the moderators to do something.

It is ridiculous that I can't post anything about a camp experience without the thread immediately being hijacked the way this one has. I should be able to discuss any topic I want concerning ski instruction without bring bullied and insulted by someone. These attacks border on slander as far as I am concerned. If you don't like Harald Harb that's fine, send him an e-mail.

Am I wrong?
post #10 of 40
I drank the Kool-Aid also and I love it.

JClayton, you seem like a sincere dedicated skier. I feel bad for you based on the vicious responses you received by Rusty and Dchan.
Dchan, it was because I became open minded, I found PMTS. It was PSIA that tried to close my mind to other approaches and direct me to the wrong skiing method.

I also have skied with Harald and Diana. They never said a bad word about anyone. If I was Harald, I would have many bad words for behavior like our friend Rusty’s.

Is he the PSIA and Epic Police rolled into one? Does he command the roust here on Epic?

I thought this was a free forum for free thinkers? Sorry Rusty, Harald doesn’t even know you exist, you are far more threatened and malicious then I have ever seen Harald behave.

I think it has come time when free thinking people stop being influenced by bullies like Ruzty. You will need the likes of Karl Rove to put a good spin on your behavior, Rusty old boy.

You are a Level 2 PSIA instructor with years of training, but you can’t get to the next level. When will your mind open and learn courtesy for free thinking posters by the way. A open mind is what you are missing when it comes to your approach, maybe with one you might be able to ski and teach at the level you aspire?
post #11 of 40
Thread Starter 
DChan,

Thank your for showing some class and for the gracious response. One of my first posts at Epic was in regards to finding a ski camp to attend. This was over two years ago and that thread was hijacked in the same way this one was. It is ridiculous. I chose the PMTS camp over the Epic camps because I figured if people hated PMTS so much there must be something to it. I was right.

Harald, Diana, Chris and Rich are all great people. They are all unbelievable skiers with a passion for what they do. Nobody indoctrinates anybody at these camps. They don't need to because what they teach works, period. Anyone is free to have a personal dislike for Harald, or anyone else, but it is grossly unfair that people are being turned off on a tremedous teaching method because a few hostile individuals on this forum can't control their emotions.

You have to ask yourself what is going on with someone who spends literally years attacking someones character on a forum, when that person doesn't even post here! If these people can't find a thread to insult PMTS, they go over to the PMTS forum and copy and paste over here to start a new thread so they can continue. Pathetic. Even worse are those who bash a program they know nothing about after being influenced by these thugs.

I have no stake in PMTS beyond wanting to become a better skier. IS PMTS the only way to teach? Of course not. Does it work really well? It does for me and many other people I know.

Time for some to get a life.

Regards,
Don
post #12 of 40
Guys, the us vs. them thing has been beaten to death. Let it go.
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by carv_lust
....I also have skied with Harald and Diana. They never said a bad word about anyone. If I was Harald, I would have many bad words for behavior like our friend Rusty’s.

Is he the PSIA and Epic Police rolled into one? Does he command the roust here on Epic?

I thought this was a free forum for free thinkers? Sorry Rusty, Harald doesn’t even know you exist, you are far more threatened and malicious then I have ever seen Harald behave.

I think it has come time when free thinking people stop being influenced by bullies like Ruzty. You will need the likes of Karl Rove to put a good spin on your behavior, Rusty old boy.

You are a Level 2 PSIA instructor with years of training, but you can’t get to the next level. When will your mind open and learn courtesy for free thinking posters by the way. A open mind is what you are missing when it comes to your approach, maybe with one you might be able to ski and teach at the level you aspire?
Sorry carv_lust,

Rusty Guy is a level 3 pro. But don't worry, HH mistakes us also.
post #14 of 40
I'm chiming in on the knock it off side right now. I understand that there can be great discussions on the relative merits of any teaching system. I want to see that type of discussion, that's why I joined EpicSki in the first place. What I don't like seeing and can't condone is the personal attacks by anyone, period.

When I went to the PMTS camp I proudly wore my PSIA Level II Adaptive pin. In a conversation between Harald, Diana, and myself I explained that I was there to learn, that the word ADAPTIVE was what I was truely about, that I did not want to get into the politics of the PMTS/PSIA debates, and my primary goal was to learn how to teach PMTS so I could adapt the methods to help my clients. Guess what, they actually respected my point of view and did not "beat" on me because I happen to be a PSIA member. They even knew I was attending a National PSIA Adaptive event the next week and that I am in the process of completing my PSIA Level II Alpine certification. They were very professional about the whole thing. The discussions we had were fun and enlightening. Harald even asked me questions about how adaptive teaching works.

It was five days of learning a new system and seeing what it has to offer. I'm glad I was able to do it. I've been better able to serve my clients, able bodied and disabled, because of it. I'm a better teacher because I kept my mind open to new and different ideas. Am I going to use PMTS concepts in the future, damn right. Am I going to use ATS (American Teaching System, that's the proper name for the system PSIA uses.) damn straight. I'll use what is appropriate and works for the client I'm dealing with at the time.
post #15 of 40

Rottweilers vs. hymn books

Thanks for the post, Clayton.
Having worked with both Harald and Diana in the early 90s back in Winter Park, I concur with you that both have great coaching skills.
I am forever indebted to Harald for sticking cants under my boots in '91 and showing me that proper alignment will change a knock-kneed gal's life.
As far as the Kool-Aid thing goes, well, some have found the drama of confusing the mailman with the message to be pretty exciting at times. Enough that the Rottweilers occasionally get let out of the pen, to the detriment of what we're here for.
I believe we teach our people to ski and not the other way around. I'm interested in getting the most people under the tent so for me an ecumenical approach works best including a PMTS hymn book if needed.
Everybody needs a little something different. A bunch of skiers are happy on the hill because of Harald. And that's a good thing.
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Square
When I went to the PMTS camp I proudly wore my PSIA Level II Adaptive pin. In a conversation between Harald, Diana, and myself I explained that I was there to learn, that the word ADAPTIVE was what I was truely about, that I did not want to get into the politics of the PMTS/PSIA debates, and my primary goal was to learn how to teach PMTS so I could adapt the methods to help my clients. Guess what, they actually respected my point of view and did not "beat" on me because I happen to be a PSIA member. They even knew I was attending a National PSIA Adaptive event the next week and that I am in the process of completing my PSIA Level II Alpine certification. They were very professional about the whole thing. The discussions we had were fun and enlightening. Harald even asked me questions about how adaptive teaching works.
T-Square - I was glad to read this paragraph. I'm glad he didn't get into bashing "Traditional Teaching Systems", etc. I would actually love to participate in a PMTS clinic (or "camp" as they call it), because I agree that (and I don't think anyone here would disagree) Harold, Diana and gang are very good skiers and teachers and they obviously do have a passion for the sport, and I also agree that it can only benefit any instructor to learn about thier system. In reference to the comments about selling the Head Supershapes, I personally don't begrudge him at all for trying to make a living selling equipment on the side. Hell, I'm a mountan rep and sell boots, skis, bindings and poles, and there are many other reps here on epicski. I might not sell as hard as he does, but then again, I'm not trying to subsidize my income with it, as I'm sure he is (that's not a bad thing!).

Glad you had fun and got something out of it.
post #17 of 40
EDIT:I should have kept my opinion to myself...
post #18 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
In reference to the comments about selling the Head Supershapes, I personally don't begrudge him at all for trying to make a living selling equipment on the side.
John,

Thank you for the civil response.

For the record, the only thing Harald sold me was a pair of cat-tracks. I requested the Supershapes for demos, and he gave me his personal skis as he had none in stock. The demo was free as part of the camp. He never tried to sell me anything. I bought the Supershapes online after I returned home from someone else. I went in with 4 year old boots, and guess what, they didn't try to sell me new boots either. I went through an alignment session and ended up with a 2 degree cant.

The Supershapes are a great ski, period.

Don
post #19 of 40
Lonnie you are as pathetic as Rusty.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by carv_lust
Lonnie you are as pathetic as Rusty.
No, just weary of these posts.
post #21 of 40
Thank you for upgrading my knowledge about Rusty’s Cert Level. Unfortunately his cert level doesn’t do anything for his personality nor does it improve the PSIA Level 3 fraternity. I feel violated that his type is now one of us.
post #22 of 40
The attacks go both ways, and both sides have been pretty vicious at various points. Both have felt their integrity and competence challenged, and both have been right on occasion. It's an old argument, and one not likely to die anytime soon.

This isn't a PSIA site, although a lot of the posters are. Some are unaffiliated instructors, some are USSA coaches, some are just really good skiers. The majority take what they can, where they can. Good skiing is good skiing.

I've spent my share of time in race camps, so I would probably be right at home in a PMTS setting- despite my dislike for Head skis. In fact, I think most people would be quite comfortable with one-on-one PMTS instruction, as Harald's criteria for instructors is pretty high. He has that luxury. I could say the same of most successful clinics and camps. His books and videos I recommend to a certain type of person (athletic, self-motivated, progression-oriented). Others I point to PSIA instruction or race coaching since we don't have any PMTS instructors up here right now to tailor the lesson to the individual. Even if we did, I would always choose the instructor before the system.

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself and felt the experience worthwhile. I fully encourage you to explore PMTS and see what it has to offer. However, keep your eyes open to other possibilities and ideas. Not everyone falls in a certain mental and physical mold, so find what is effective for you and go with it- no matter what the source is.

I tend to prefer the Cherry Koolaid.
-Mike
post #23 of 40
Thank you for upgrading my knowledge about Rusty’s Cert Level. Unfortunately his cert level doesn’t do anything for his personality nor does it improve the PSIA Level 3 fraternity. I feel violated that his type is now one of us.
post #24 of 40
One of our fine moderators is appropriately deleting posts here.

Perhaps the whole thread should go. It has no technical content, just an empty endorsement, followed by back biting from both sides. Glad Clayton had a nice time, but this thread is serving no purpose other than providing a venue for the picking of old scabs.
post #25 of 40
Unfortunately, here is another example of what polarization is doing to this country and that it’s showing up in skiing is ridicules. It is even more amazing that the members of this forum are tolerating this behavior. Amazing also is that a few small thinking individuals that are lead by the likes of Rusty and Lonnie can rule, control, and influence good people/skiers on a forum where most are looking for skiing information and improvement.

When you get participation and contributions (drop in posters) here on the Epic forum, from skiers who have actually participated in a Harb Ski Systems event, they show no dissent, their opinions are unanimous. These skiers have actually skied in a Harb event or with Harb. They have no axe to grind and are not affiliated with any teaching system. Yet they are attacked relentlessly by numerous Epic Forum members.

It is not even subtle that the dissent comes from a few thugs on that don’t know Harb’s teaching methods, and have never skied with him, but are out to fulfill personal vendettas. They don’t care who they insult or attack. You need not have much intelligence to see through this charade.

The thugs, to satisfy some juvenile inadequacy, attack well-mannered, well meaning skiers whose only motivation for posting, is to exchange information and to keep channels of information open. Pathetic is much too polite a word for these individuals. I hope most of the Epic participants are not proud of this behavior?
post #26 of 40
carv lust,

a little sarcasm and i get elevated to the position of thug? that really stung. believe you me i'll toss and turn tonight.

please answer one question for me. you know....be open minded.

what would happen if someone went to a psia clinic and posted something positive at hh's site? what do you suppose harald would have to say? would he be open minded?

the more i read your stuff the more it's starting to have a familiar ring. there are certain words that seem to sound like someone else's writings.

could it be?

could the man himself be in our midst?
post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
carv lust,

what would happen if someone went to a psia clinic and posted something positive at hh's site? what do you suppose harald would have to say?
This is not, in any sense, PSIA's site. Please remember that.

In addition, I'm reasonably sure (but too lazy to look it up) that many people have commented positively here about PSIA clinics and classes over the years without the kind of response that Clayton has recieved.

Did anybody else read yesterday's article in USA Today about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Methinks there are significant parallels here.
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters
WTF?????
I figured it would go over some heads. If you don't get it, it's not that important. Just let it go.
post #29 of 40
DIE SPAMMERS

HH is using EPIC as a marketing site to get new clients.

We have 12,000 registered users and the traffic on this site on a daily basis is unreal. He knows it and loves that you guys get sucked it to the P**S bashing. All it does is give the google indexing programs more hits on P**S when his site barely registers or is barely up.

Way to go pawns.

late
post #30 of 40
Rick how is that for obvious!!
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