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Inside ski problems

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hello, I have a problem when edging my skis. The problem is I can put my outside ski on edge and make it carve, but my inside ski stays flat on the ground and doesn't carve. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? Thanks
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank
Hello, I have a problem when edging my skis. The problem is I can put my outside ski on edge and make it carve, but my inside ski stays flat on the ground and doesn't carve. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? Thanks
I got some good tips from Nolo at ESA regarding this issue. I am interested in this thread and if no one else comments,which I can't imagine, I will relate what I heard. Hopefully you can get the original ideas from the source.
post #3 of 25
Cody,
Quote:

Hello, I have a problem when edging my skis. The problem is I can put my outside ski on edge and make it carve, but my inside ski stays flat on the ground and doesn't carve. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? Thanks
From the information you have provided (above), it sounds like you are tipping inside the turn too much (banking). This causes you to put too much weight on the inside ski and not creating the angles you need to edge your skis enough. By tipping in too much, your joints (ankles-feet, hip and lower spine) are too streight to gain effective edging. By keeping your sholders and hips more level with the horizon throught the turn, you will be creating better angles and also better laterally balanced over your outside ski. This should help you very much.
Good luck.

RW
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
I am currently reading Elling's book The All Mountain Skier, and got the idea from the edging chapter in the book. When he instructs to move the center of mass by using the hips. I have implied this technique and believe this maybe what is causing it.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
http://media.putfile.com/ski23 I am the person in the red going down the middle slope. I would really like some feedback on my really bad skiing. Thanks and tell me some things I need to work on.
post #6 of 25
Begin a turn by tipping the inside ski FIRST. Keep tipping the inside ski. Don't stop tipping the inside ski.
post #7 of 25
It's hard to see your skis and feet in that video, which makes it difficult to judge just what is going on.

However, your stance appear to be rather wide. Your feet are more than shoulder width apart. It's much harder for the inside ski to match what the outside ski is doing if the feet are very widely seperated. I suspect you also have a lot (possibly even the majority) of your weight on the inside ski. This also makes it very hard to put that ski on edge.

I would suggest first of all that you get a lesson. Written advice about how to ski is notoriously hard to put in to practice, and I think you have a number of things to work on before thinking about whether you're edging your skis from your hips or your knees (which is what Elling is talking about). Barring a lesson, I would suggest you try the following:

1. Narrow your stance. Don't lock your feet together, but make it functional. To see roughly where you should be, jump up and down on the flat in your boots. The distance between your legs when you land should be roughly the distance between your legs when you ski.

2. Lift your inside ski up slightly off the snow as you ski. This ensures all your weight is on the outside ski. As you progress, you can put the inside ski back on the snow, and weight it a little, but in general the majority of your weight should always be on the outside ski.

3. Start each turn by tipping the inside ski. If you are also doing (1) and (2), this will cause your outside ski to tip along with it to a matching edge angle. However, without 1 and 2 it probably won't have much effect.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
So a good drill would be PMTS "Phantom Move"?
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank
So a good drill would be PMTS "Phantom Move"?
Roll your inside knee out. A good drill is to throw your poles away. Put your hands on your knees and when your are turning left push your left knee out to start your turn. when your are turning right push your right knee out to start the turn.

Also try to keep your knees and lower legs the the same distance apart as you do the drill.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks for answering my question.
post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
That drill will cause the skis to carve. Correct?
post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank
That drill will cause the skis to carve. Correct?
it will certainly be a step in the right direction.

But it more helps you engage your inside ski and keep your lfeet and legs parallel.

Tmake sure you start working on the drill on a very gentle easy slope.
post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
it will certainly be a step in the right direction.

But it more helps you engage your inside ski and keep your lfeet and legs parallel.

Tmake sure you start working on the drill on a very gentle easy slope.
Thank You
post #14 of 25
codyblank,

Yes the PMTS Phantom Move (also called Phantom Turn and other things - it's much older than PMTS) might help you. However, with as wide a stance as is shown in the video, your legs won't naturally move together in the way the Phantom Move relies on. You'd probably find that lightening your inside foot and tipping it would put you out of balance, which is why I suggest narrowing your stance and balancing on your outside ski first.

Atomicman's drill might work better for you than the Phantom Move if you have trouble doing those things.

Simon
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Kinahan
codyblank,

Yes the PMTS Phantom Move (also called Phantom Turn and other things - it's much older than PMTS) might help you. However, with as wide a stance as is shown in the video, your legs won't naturally move together in the way the Phantom Move relies on. You'd probably find that lightening your inside foot and tipping it would put you out of balance, which is why I suggest narrowing your stance and balancing on your outside ski first.

Atomicman's drill might work better for you than the Phantom Move if you have trouble doing those things.

Simon
Yes Simon, I have tried the Phantom Move and it made me very unbalanced. So to correct this I need to narrow my stance?
:
post #16 of 25
If you want to learn to carve well, any of the traditional "inside ski lightening" techniques will do nothing but set you back. I have spent an inordinate amount of time unlearning this sort of skiing over the past year. If you aspire in any way to leave RR tracks, you will not get there by putting the majority of your weight on the outside ski. And at least for me, getting better at the two-footed thing has improved my skiing across a broad range of terrain and conditions. And it seems especially key to getting the most (or even anything) out of some of the more modern ski designs like the higher end Metrons. .

I like Atomicman's suggestion. Visualizing the results of sliding the knee outward (especially outward from the other knee)has helped me get the hang of using the inside ski - and stance width. A combination of thinking about rolling weight onto the soon-to-be-inside little toe edge and motivating angulation by pushing the soon-to-be-inside knee out has worked best for me. Note that this is very different from lightening or lifting the soon-to-be inside foot/toe. If anything, I concentrate on keeping weight on that edge...

Also, having been somewhat used to weighting the outside ski - I have had to emphasize weighting the inside ski quite a bit. When I was just starting on this, I tried to get 90%+ onto the inside ski - and ended up with maybe 50%, which was still not really enough to generate even arcs. It has gotten easier over time.

The other thing that killed me for a long time, and still gets me sometimes, was allowing one ski to lead the other which made it hard to bang out truly parallel arcs. Been working on using my core to keep the tips even (with any number of "tricks" to try to make it happen).

Disclaimer: Just describing what has been working for me. I know I still have work to do though.. I am not an instructor. I have no intrinsic bias toward anyone's official doctrine. And I may well have mangled official jargon here. Tough!
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
What I have had the most sucess with so far is using a little ouside ski dominance and edging mostly.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank
What I have had the most sucess with so far is using a little ouside ski dominance and edging mostly.
codyblank, and I mean this with all due respect. I beleive you would greatly benefit by a consistent series of lesson form a competent qualified instructor.

You are ingraining bad habits and incorrect skills into your muscle memory. the longer and more often you practice wrong, the better you will become at hese bad habits and the longer and more difficult it will be to retrain you with proper skiing skills.

Do yourself a huge favor, get some professional help and take a 10 lesson series for 10 consecutive weeks.

You will benefit far more then what we can help you with here! Taking your skill level into account, (strictly from the video of course) tI would get some lessons immediately.

Become a higere level technically sound efficient skier is not a do it yourself propostion.
post #19 of 25
I agree with A-man, codyblank. Take some lessons from a pro and you will advance much more quickly and directly than trying to advance on your own. What you need to do to get there is more complex than a message board reply can accomplish.
post #20 of 25
My father in law has the same issue as you (as far as I can see in the video) it appears to me that you are still snow plowing a bit, your skis do not appear to be parallel. Try using more of the mountain to control your speed in stead of wedging, cut across the mountain and make sure to maintain parallel skis, keep hands forward and use pole plants at the turns to help time your moves. This will help you keep your speeds controllable and improve your technique and confidence. Once you have that done you can tighten the turns and gradually work to a clean carve.
post #21 of 25

You're Skiing Too Upright

You should bend your knees. It's almost impossible (without excessive tipping) to get the inside ski to edge with your legs straight. Your nuetral stance should be legs bent so the knees over are your toes and shins slightly pressuring the front of the boots.
post #22 of 25
You arent seriously telling him to pole plant are you? Don't you think its best to keep things as simple as possible? Pole plants are 9 times out of 10 unnecessary, especially on the terrain hes likely to encounter.
post #23 of 25
No one should be telling him anything. His ski skills are so limited that a series of lessons are the only remedy for an obvious beginner.
post #24 of 25
What Atomicman and Nolo said. Start there.
post #25 of 25
I agree.
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