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What Ski Next?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
First About Me:

51 Years Old, 5'11", 215 lb. Strong Advanced Skier who will ski everything from steep fast groomers to bumbs, glades (often bumpy) and powder when I can find it here in the East.(I don't consider myself a true expert)

Current Skis:

AllStar 168: Love them on groomers, bumps if not too too big, super on ice, find them a little squirly in heaped up crud in the trees. No speed limit.

Recon 177: More fun in bumps, good at speed, plows through crud quite well, good at speed, no where neer the AllStar on ice.

1080 Guns 175: Bought them for deeper snow in the trees, not much use this year but overall too light for me and close to useless on anything firm.

The Dilema:

I want to replace my Recons and Guns with one ski that will cover the following: Deeper snow (up to 2 feet lets say) firm groomers when not in the trees, bumps (the glades I ski allways get bumped out quickly) and newly opened backcountry ski operation here in Quebec.

Under Consideration:

Volk AC4 (2006 or 2007)
Volk Mantra
Head IM82
Head IM88
A twin tip such as PE or Karma

What do you think?
post #2 of 29
AC4, almost as good on hardpack as my 5*, good in crud and powder, great versitile ski
post #3 of 29
I'd suggest an Atomic M-ex as it is a "tweener" in dimensions and personality between what you have.

My quiver is similar to yours with similar capabilities. If I absolutely had to cut it down to 2, I would keep #1 & #3.

1) Nordica '04 SM 14.1 = All Star
2) Dynastar 8000 = Recon (although different personality)
3) Atomic M-ex = Perfect tweener betwixt 1 & 4
4) Atomic Sugar Daddy.

Since the M-EX is going away, I have been considering a replacement but have yet to find anything any better. The '06 AC-4 is too darty and the '07 is too trucklike for me. The Heads are great skis but a bit stiff for my personal tastes. Mantra is too wide for everyday use for my tastes and it feels a bit too carvey in crud.

Skis that might replace the M-EX for me:
  • Nordica Afterburner
  • Salomon X-wing Fury
  • Atomic Snoop Daddy
  • Rossi B3
  • Legend 8000 in a 184 (I currently have a 178)
SJ
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
No one seems to be commenting on any of these skis capabilities or ease in bumbs. What about the twin tips? I guess in the end I am looking for a ski that is realy fun in the bumps when not using my AllStars due to har dpack and ice, that is decent on "firmer snow" and will give me better float than my recons in deep snow. The Guns just don't do it for me in the latter 2 maybe because of my wieght.
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

Question to SierraJim

I am very curious to hear more about youre experiences with the Head skis. What lengths did you ski? What is your height and weight? The Rossi B3 is starting to sound very interesting (better pricing to me). Do you ski bumps very much?
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleneil
I am very curious to hear more about youre experiences with the Head skis. What lengths did you ski? What is your height and weight? The Rossi B3 is starting to sound very interesting (better pricing to me). Do you ski bumps very much?
I am 5-10 195# and 56 YO. I have been in the ski biz my entire working life. I will ski real bumps only at gunpoint. The crud pile bumps etc are actually fun however.

Re: the Heads, I skied the iM 77 in a 177, the 70 & 72 in a 170, and the various carvers in 170. A quick spin on the 82 in a 172 felt pretty similar to the iM 77 although I only skied it on groomers.

The B3 is a fine ski and seemingly under-appreciated but it is not terribly lively. It is easy going enough that it won't bounce you into next week if you make a mistake in the bumpzz. IMO the best bumper in the mid fat range is the Legend 8000.

SJ
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks SierraJim

Thanks for you replies! Given the fact that I can get a great deal on the 8000's I'm tempted. But they are not that different from the Recons although lighter and livlier I would guess. Any ideas on something wider, I may end up keeping the Recons and simply replacing my Guns.
post #8 of 29
My opinion is that the B3 is one of the finest bump skis out there right now.
post #9 of 29
I too own the Allstar in a 168cm and an AC4 in a 177cm... and owned the im88 in a 175cm. Like you, I love my Allstar on hardpack. The AC4 is the best all-around ski I have skied period. Very light and lively compared the other skis I tried up to 89mm. Every bit as easy as my Allstar with nice float, very decent carving and great crud busting. Loved it in the trees last week in Utah. Worked great in boot deep pow and soft bumps. I wouldn't call it a great bump ski but very usable if you are comfortable in the bumps.

The im88 is a great ski but not much fun at all in the bumps IMO. It's a big heavy crud busting GS ski that's sluggish by comparison in tight quick situations. It's an incredible ski in rough chopped up conditions at speed... doesn't get knocked around much and plows right through the slop. I preferred the AC4 in every other condition and it's works nearly as well in crud. I didn't ski the im88 in powder so I can't comment.

If you are into Head options you might take a look at the Mojo 90. Sounds like it would fit everything you have listed in your criteria.

Good luck!

<M
post #10 of 29
168 Nordica SUV's, try em you will love them.
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 

Valuable input Moods!

Thanks for the comments on the IM88, wonder how the IM82 compares. Have you skied the MOJO 90 on groomed to hard snow? Also, any experience with the 07 AC4 in comparison. Opinions seem to vary allot.

Well I feel like the list is narrowing:

AC4
MOJO 90
B3

Srprised no one has spoken up for the PE or KARMA
post #12 of 29

Tell him Moods!

[quote=Moods] The AC4 is the best all-around ski I have skied period.

Look familiar Moods?
post #13 of 29
You said:

Thanks for you replies! Given the fact that I can get a great deal on the 8000's I'm tempted. But they are not that different from the Recons although lighter and livlier I would guess.


First, I'm 52, 190, level 8. Ski everywhere including bumps. I demo'd the Recons and 8000s back to back and there is a fair bit of difference IMHO. The 8000 is much more lively and is a better bump ski. I liked the Recon but it just didn't excite me. Couple that with the Recon is still the "hot thing" and people are paying big bucks for it vs the 8000 is "yesterday's news" and I bought the Dynastar. Found a great deal on some demos and with the money I saved picked up last years Karma's as well. Haven't been able to ski those yet. Let you know this week on them. If you care about bumps try the 8000.
post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
I accept the fact that I should have gone for the 8000's instead of the Recon's. (can still get a great deal on a pair). The question is will they suffice in 12 to 24 inches of powder or am I better off living with my Recon's and replacing my 1080 Guns (wich I find to easily knocked around and almost useless on packed snow) for those days when I head to the back country.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleneil
I accept the fact that I should have gone for the 8000's instead of the Recon's. (can still get a great deal on a pair). The question is will they suffice in 12 to 24 inches of powder or am I better off living with my Recon's and replacing my 1080 Guns (wich I find to easily knocked around and almost useless on packed snow) for those days when I head to the back country.
It does not seem clear whether you want a new mid fat or a new fat ski.

There will not be enough difference between most of these mid fat skis in powder to justify getting a new pair. A Recon and an AC-4 does not make much sense as 2 pr. quiver. While they are significantly different in personality, the powder capability is similar.

There are a lot of wider skis (88mm or more) that will offer better stability than the PR/Gun.

SJ
post #16 of 29
The first day I skiied my 8000s was about 8" new. I've been skiing powder for a long time but I'm new to the wide thing having always skiied narrow waisted carving skis. I guess I'm trying to say I can ski powder on just about anything. That said they were quite nice and got me looking for even wider which I got with the Karmas.

Here's another thought. From what I've seen on ebay Recons go for some really high prices, high enough to get a new pair of 8000s. Keep the Guns for powder days, although 175s for someone 215 might not really work then either.

Steve
post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 

To Clarify

Idealy I would like to rely on just 2 skis to cover all my skiing (short of really deep powder lets say over 2 feet). The AllStars will stay. The new ski would replace the Recon and Guns and therefore be great in treeas, bumps, crud and untracked up to 2 feet. For example my son uses his Foils for allof this but to me they are the same as the Guns
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleneil
Idealy I would like to rely on just 2 skis to cover all my skiing (short of really deep powder lets say over 2 feet). The AllStars will stay. The new ski would replace the Recon and Guns and therefore be great in treeas, bumps, crud and untracked up to 2 feet. For example my son uses his Foils for allof this but to me they are the same as the Guns
OK.......that makes some sense.

IMO an AC-4 won't be enough of an improvement over the Recon in the deepish stuff. I'll go back to my original suggestions of the M-EX or B3 with a possible nod to the K2 Outlaw.

I can hear the howls now, so I'll just answer in advance........

"Howin the dang heck can I possibly suggest the M-EX or B3 over the AC-4????".................

Easy! For my personal tastes, the straighter shapes of the B3/M-EX offer an edge over the AC-4 which is simply too turny in cruddy crud unless the AC is skied in a longer size.

SJ
post #19 of 29
I think you should reconsider the Mantra in 177 or 184cm if the bumps aren't too tight or big.
Holds a wicked edge on firm snow and reasonably quick for a 94mm waisted ski. Stiffer & will deflect far less than your Solly and is naturally at home in powder & crud.

My quiver:
1: 170 cm Elan RipStick (newest addition) - similar to the Allstar
2: 176 cm Elan m666 fusion - somewhat similar to Recon although far more powerful and handles crud & firm snow better (I owned the Recon for 30 days prior to trading it in for the 666)
3: 184 cm Mantra

If I had to give up one then it would be #2
If I could only keep one then it would be #2
post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 
I feel like I'm getting closer! The B3 is still very much in the running, the Mantra is tempting but perhaps a bit too wide to get allot of use from so perhaps the Karma. I get a bit more float than the B3 (I assume) they have a good rep on harder snow but how about in bumps? As I said there are allways bumps in the trees where I ski soon after it snows.
post #21 of 29
I'll let you know Wed, I'm going up for the day with the Karmas.

Steve
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks Steve. I will look forward to your comments on the Karmas.
post #23 of 29
OK, finally got to ski the Karmas. The specs.
Me. 52, level 8 skiied for 30 years. Go anywhere.
The day. Beaver Creek, 3" new, about 12" over the last few days, very soft most everywhere, some spring corn in the afternoon. Powder on bumps. Perfect groomers with some refrozen corn late in the day.

Skiied my Dynastar 8000 (178) until lunch then switched to the Karmas (177).

Observations: First they ski short, probably the twin tips. On fast cruisers not nearly as stable as the 8000s. Softer tips and tails. Powder, no issues as expected. Not enough new to test float but effortless turning in the trees where I found boottop fluff. Bumps. This was what I really wanted to see. Many folks have reported these to be good bump skiis but one well known ski magazine said they were terrible in the bumps. Just about every powder day I ski turns into a bump day by afternoon and I don't want to have to change skis at lunch. I thought they were quite good in bumps. The soft tip and tail allowed any line you choose as opposed to the 8000s which have more tail and demand a more aggressive line. I liked them as bump skis.

Bottom line. My 8000s do so many things well I think these will only come out on powder days. Still, I'm glad to have them.

Steve
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks Steve

I appreciate you sharing your observations on the Karmas just as you said you would. Especially given your direct comparison to the 8000's. It is interesting that your description of a powder day (in the west) is so similar to mine in the east. Although certainly fewer of them for me unfortunately. By lunch most of the powder is cut up and sofy bumps form especially in the glades that I like to ski. If I may interpret what your are saying a bit, the Karmas are not as good as the 8000's on groomers but are better in powder and not better but perhaps more forgiving in the bumps then I have found what I am looking for! 177 Karmas.
post #25 of 29
Our age, sixe , and weight, as well as ability are nearly the same. I do not have unlimited funds, so i have to be a bit picky, I skied the AC4 in a 170 at 3 different resorts, crud, glades, deep stuff, and I must say, the AC4 is the greatest thing since ice cream. The 05-06 is what I skied in these conditions, Example, Big Sky , Montana, off the tram. I am unsure if I shoud get the 170 or 177 but i have never skied a better ski. The 07 if quite different, I skied it in the crud, deep, but did not have a chance to do the trees with it. I like the 05-06 better but am not sure if that is because it was a 177 and the 05-06 is a 170 or just the difference in the ski. Growing up longer on skis, i really want the 177 for me I think, but either should serve you well. I believe this is truly the one ski quiver everyone wants, I just need to decide if I should cheap down to the AC3 or bite the bullet, pay the bucks, and have it all. I thought I died and went to heaven on the AC4 so if you have the bucks, get the AC4 and throw the rest away, you won't need them again.
post #26 of 29
Uncle,
I think you got it. One caveat. The Karmas I have are the 04-05 model, the black with red graphics. I think I read somewhere the ski changed a little for 05-06, I'm not sure. I will reserve final judgement after I ski them on a deeper powder day.

WRT powder days. I used to ski at Squaw, Alpine, and Sugar Bowl. Powder days were measured in feet, many bottomless, all bumps gone. After moving to CO I discovered it's different here. Snow is lighter, not as deep usually, bumps are rarely completely covered. Tracked up just as fast. I've learned to love powder bumps and relish the deep days.

Snake,
I couldn't find an AC4 demo when I was shopping but heard good things. I did ski the AC3 on a hardpack day and came away unimpressed. I could have been me as it was about my 5th ski that day and I was getting a bit worn out by the time I got to it.
post #27 of 29
another ski 2 look at,
The Volant Chubb.
I picked up a pair with Binders on e-bay for$299.00.
Theese skis are in mint/off the rack shape.
I skied Jay last thirsday in 2feet of powder and they were as lively as a ski could get.
forgiving?
Hells yeah!
I bought them 4 my yearly visits to Mt. Baker, Wa.
an other note they skied quite well and turn with ultra ease in tight trees.
on the groomers they feel right at home.
my stats 6foot 1 inch/51yo./197 lbs. ex USSA racer
post #28 of 29
I wanted to add to this thread wrt the Karma's. I just spent the last four days in Summit CO. Conditions were great. Nice winter snow up high, perfect spring corn lower down. Skied Beaver, Basin and Keystone twice. The Karma's on corn were wonderful. I was linking big gs turns down Go Devil at 40+mph (my son was carrying a GPS so I'm not guessing) in the corn and couldn't ask for a nicer ride. I've fallen in love with these on any soft snow days.

Steve
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesmith7
I wanted to add to this thread wrt the Karma's. I just spent the last four days in Summit CO. Conditions were great. Nice winter snow up high, perfect spring corn lower down. Skied Beaver, Basin and Keystone twice. The Karma's on corn were wonderful. I was linking big gs turns down Go Devil at 40+mph (my son was carrying a GPS so I'm not guessing) in the corn and couldn't ask for a nicer ride. I've fallen in love with these on any soft snow days.

Steve

My experience too, they are fantastic soft snow skis.
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