New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Bode Says .. Maier Says..

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I just finished reading Maier's book and Bode's the week before. It was interesting to see the parallels in what these guys say.. I am not saying they are similar in personalities.. Just the things that seem to be sticking points for both of them.

On doping control..
Bode.. Doping control is a joke..
Maier.. Doping control is a pain in the butt.. Feels caged.. Questions the whole system in the first place.

On the FIS..
Bode.. Feels that FIS scheduling and organization stc, sucks ass..
Maier.. Feels that FIS is poorly run with scant consideration for athlete recovery etc.. Wishes for more consitent applicaion of rules.. after his 03 TDF prologue felt like the FIS could learn a few things ..

On the Media..
Bode.. Would rather not deal with the Journalists. Feels taken out of context many a time..
Maier.. Thinks that journalists take him out of context all the time. Unlike Bode doesnt say all the things on his mind in a press conference..

On Training..
Bode.. Trains his ass off in his own way..
Maier.. Dude could be a pro cyclist if he wants to.. Well would sprint for sure, one would think.. His ears are probably perforated beyond imaginantion from all those lactate treshold testing..

On Partying..
Bode.. Sure does party hard.. Thats just him.. Has on occasion showed up in rough shape on top of the course..
Maier.. Sure does party hard after a win.. Once showed up a it late for a race after having partied too hard the previous days win..

In general..
Bode.. Admires Maier's return, courage and strength..
Maier.. Admires Bode's skills(mentions the 5 wins in 16 days streak), free will..

Bode.. S*it happens on the course and sometimes you dont win.
Maier.. S*it happens on the course and sometimes you dont win.

What was even more interesting was the general cordiality and admiration amongst these athletes.. Also interesting is that Maier feels like bode sometimes gets bad rep for things he doesnt do. Case in point that Bode once showed up a minute late and it was reported that he actually missed it(not again)..
post #2 of 24
That is an interesting post, Coug. Thanks.

I'll take a whack at the dead horse...

Although Bode could have handled his press hype leading up to the Olympics a little or maybe a lot better, I don't understand why so many have absolutely ripped him apart in such a vindictive manner. I think this post shows that there are more similarities between perhaps the greatest racer of all time, and a guy who someone on this board questioned anyone having an "ounce of respect" for, than those who are slamming Bode could have ever imagined.
post #3 of 24
Soooo...., let me get this straight: you are saying that the great Hermann Maier thinks a lot like Bode Miller, who isn't so great? (That's what they said about Bode on TV during the Olympics, anyways.)

How could that be? Hermann is a hero, and Bode is a zero. Can--not--compute. Central---processing--unit---overloading.........hbvlOM J;LJPjdasklduucnuclm....bzzzzzzttt________________ _____________
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
I agree straightlines.. One almost gets an impression that these guys are fed up with the system and the demands imposed on running a tight schedule and dealing with the Media.. Whether this is different from any other sport is something I am not quite sure.

The intent of my post was just to point out that Bode is not the only guys saying the things that he says. Lets see if the regular contributors to the Bode debate have anything to say to this..
post #5 of 24

Coug

So, someone else said that Meier's book was better. Which book did you like better? How long did it take to read these books? Were they easy reading?
I've been thinking about buying Herman Meier's book first, then maybe Bode Miller's book after.

Seeing that both Bode Miller and Herman Meier have made it to be the top racers, it is not all that surprising that they may have similar opinions... Nevertheless, it's good to hear about the books I'm interested in purchasing! Good thread Coug!
post #6 of 24
Just a sidebar, Ingemar Stenmark was both ambivalent about the Olympics compared to the World Cup and was quoted as saying that he skied not so much for globes and medals per se but simply to challenge himself to be his best and to have fun. That's not to say he didn't have very competitive instincts and the desire to win. Just that his motivations were more inwardly than externally directed. In the 82-83 season, he didn't make it to the finish line of the second run in Slalom no less than five times that season.
Sound kind of familiar? "Stenmark" by Armando Trovati, Pentaphoto Press.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skicrazed
So, someone else said that Meier's book was better. Which book did you like better? How long did it take to read these books? Were they easy reading?
I've been thinking about buying Herman Meier's book first, then maybe Bode Miller's book after.

Seeing that both Bode Miller and Herman Meier have made it to be the top racers, it is not all that surprising that they may have similar opinions... Nevertheless, it's good to hear about the books I'm interested in purchasing! Good thread Coug!
Both of them are easy reading.. Took me a few hours to get through them, primarily because I have actually been sleeping well the past few weeks Maier's book flows a bit better. They both have a healthy does of, I did this, I did that.

Bode's book is a bit more about his life from a child to present day. Has its own little segments on his personal life and a bit of preaching.

Maier's book pretty much starts off with his accident and then the long road to recovery. More of an inspiration to someone down and out I guess.

I got them at amazon as a combo deal.. So a few bucks cheaper..

EDIT:- should add that neither one is written all that great but definetly readable..
post #8 of 24
Didn't Stenmark turn 'pro' and move to Monaco to accept endorsement deals because of a disagreement with the FIS??

There could be a trend here, top racers fed up with the governing body of ski racing.

Maier might have trouble in the TDF when the race gets into the mountains, he's lugging a lot of beef uphill. The reason I like Tyler Hamilton so much is his back ground in ski racing was what got him started cycling. Poor druggie bastard.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom
Didn't Stenmark turn 'pro' and move to Monaco to accept endorsement deals because of a disagreement with the FIS??
Stenmark elected not to give up his famous B license which allowed him to earn more money and so did not compete in the 1984 Olympics in Sarajevo. He did compete earlier at Lake Placid where he won two gold medals and at Calgary where he didn't medal although he clocked the fastest time in the second run of the slalom and came in 5th place. His move to Monaco was prompted by the more favorable tax treatment he received there than in Sweden. A fair number of people argue that the FIS implemented certain rule changes designed specifically to end Stenmark's then dominance of the sport. Others argue that simply a better class of athlete was emerging to contest Stenmark's status.

I don't want to try to carry these analogies too far since the athletes are clearly very different individuals and Stenmark was noted for his self-denial. However, in his biography his coach Herman Nogler who first met Stenmark when the racer was age 13, notes of Stenmark:

"One thing, however, is certain: He will never be influenced by anyone in his way of living and basic attitudes. That's the way he has always been and will always be..."

I my point here is simply that there seems to be certain common denominators among the three great skiers and that time has a way of putting things in their proper perspective as to how we measure them.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy
A fair number of people argue that the FIS implemented certain rule changes designed specifically to end Stenmark's then dominance of the sport.
Pretty common knowledge at the time. Specifically, they introduced Super G as a new event. It provided an additional speed event, which Stenmark did not participate in, so it allowed the rest of the field access to extra points to chase in their previously feeble efforts to compete with him for the overall.

At his prime the guy was truly the most dominant force in ski racing I've ever witnessed, followed by Herman prior to his accident.
post #11 of 24
Another perspective by someone who does know him.

http://www.summitdaily.com/article/2...NEWS/101120044
post #12 of 24
Hmmmm,,, and that was before the Olympic debacle.
post #13 of 24
Rick: As to Stenmark, I remember (or think I do) hearing that one year, the rules required at least one finish in each of the three disciplines in order to be eligible for the overall.
Since he had a big lead, all he had to do was enter one downhill, finish, no matter where (even if he sideslipped the course) and win the overall. He declined, since he never trained DH,and thought it would be disrespectful of the Cup. Any truth to this?
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by evansilver
Rick: As to Stenmark, I remember (or think I do) hearing that one year, the rules required at least one finish in each of the three disciplines in order to be eligible for the overall.
Since he had a big lead, all he had to do was enter one downhill, finish, no matter where (even if he sideslipped the course) and win the overall. He declined, since he never trained DH,and thought it would be disrespectful of the Cup. Any truth to this?
Stenmark did race at least one downhill, on the Hahnenkamm of all places! (He used straight poles, stood up just about everywhere, and finished about 10 seconds back). Sometime after that he trained downhill in the summer, but fell badly and knocked himself out. That was the end of his downhill racing days.
post #15 of 24

coug

Thanks for the info!! I was wondering if they were at all well written as well.. now I know!! Still, I think I'll get that Amazon double book deal . I appreciate all the info, coug!
post #16 of 24
Thanks for the rundown. I just bought both off Amazon out of curiosity.
post #17 of 24
I am finishing up Maier's book. I have not read Miller's.

Maier is, as you'd expect, extremely competitive. He makes sure to point out, for example, that Wayne Gretzky read from notes, while he did not, at a function at which Gretzky represented Vancouver's give-us-the-games contingent, and Maier, Salzburg's. He is definitely about winning as a bottom line, as opposed to Miller's allegedly cavalier attitude, supposedly more in pursuit of the "pure" run.

Maier is also somewhat at a distance from his own teammates, whom he refers to as his "colleagues." He will give praise to his competitors but oftentimes it is a soft slap at the same time, a reminder that there is but one "Herminator." Maier refers to himself as Herminator a couple times.

He is a workout beast for whom a beer or two is a nice reward for hard work, which he seems driven to do. He definitely views his body as a temple and a vehicle through which to experience the bounty life has to offer. He also takes full advantage of a coaching staff/support team that exists, it seems, for Maier. He is generous in his praise of those relative few who are truly there for him; he is also indignant when a doctor who'd played a part in his recovery gets more credit than Maier believes is due, on a tv news broadcast one night.

Maier is acutely aware of Maier. He knows what it means to be the kind of ski racer he is in the country he is from. He relishes the role and understands the responsibility. Or agrees, anyway, that one exists. He is dutiful to his sponsors and, while affording himself the occassional getaway - to Aruba, for example, or Key West, the Bahamas - he is generous to his enormous fan base as well as being very media-capable.

He makes reference to a love relationship, and then fleetingly addresses its break-up. He confesses he cannot be the racer he wants to be with "distractions." (Later, after the Super G win at Kitzbuhel that let everyone know he was indeed back, he confesses again that it is time to savor the flowers that seem to be everywhere around him. It may have been Arnold Scharzeneger's advice - they trade a few cell phone calls - to "celebrate unstintingly.") During this time, Maier tells us, he meets someone "very special" and leaves it at that, making it a point to say, without saying it, "it's nobody's business."

What will stay with me is Maier's competitiveness. With others, with himself. He is childlike - not childish - when he diminishes the successes of his competitors while being darn quick to explain/excuse his own rare lapses. His will to stay on top, and to keep pushing from the top, is admirable in its focus and immunity from diversion.

Don't know that I'll read Bode's. I would like to read Aamodt's take on his experiences.

P.S.

edit: Worth noting - and I left the book at home so I can't quote - but on a couple occassions Maier expresses his love of skiing powder. In fact, one such powder day makes it to the the top of his list of all-time great days on skis.
post #18 of 24
Thanks for the Cliffs Notes version -- he sounds like your "typical" champion, IMO. Pete Sampras came to my mind first, but honestly, most greats in most individual sports seem to be very much like this. It's almost a necessity ...
post #19 of 24

and Daron says...

from Maier's book...

"...The results were as expected considering my mediocre shape: fifth in the downhill that had been substituted for Wengen, second in the super-G, ninth in the second downhill, and fourteenth in the combination. I was most disgruntled by a comment from Daron Rahlves, who had until then always given me the "buddy" vibes. He had heard that I allegedly made a derogatory comment about his victory from the year before on the shortened downhill course on Kitzbuhel's Streif. Which was complete nonsense, of course. At any rate, Daron was getting ready to deliver a counterpunch in front of the journalists: 'Hermann Maier shows no respect when others are winning,' the American said. 'He is a poor loser. He's always looking for excuses for his defeat. Besides, he doesn't look you in the eye when he congratulates you.' Apparently, Daron's success has gone to his head and he takes the words his coach yells at him every time at the starting line ("Ski for the money") too seriously."
__________________________________________________ _________

I don't know about the "poor loser" tag or not looking someone in the eye but after reading the book, "He's always looking for excuses for his defeat" does seem to have some validity. I'd say it is what will remain with me from the book. At every turn, Maier does in fact point to equipment, poor tech support, weather, injury, poor starting slot, etc., as reason for less-than-stellar performance.
post #20 of 24
"The results were as expected considering my mediocre shape".. this dosn't sound like an excuse to me, it souds like a realistic and on some level self-deprecating comment.
Haven't read the book yet, so I can't say more Maier in particular.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx
Haven't read the book yet
When you do, you may have more context from which to draw conclusions.

My quote from the book was, by the way, presented as more in the "Bode says...Maier says...Daron says..." context that began this thread.

The fact is, as I said, the book provides ample support for Rahlves' gripe. I personally don't care one way or the other. I simply found Maier's occassional difficulty in saying "he beat me fair and square" to be an interesting trait. No one can argue Maier's success, domination, perserverance and ferocity in the course. I suspect his scant praise for other racers, no matter what they do, is part of his mental approach - conscious or not - that feeds his fierce competitive spirit. In that sense it works, of course.

As for personal judgment, I don't care one way or the other. I don't give one about respective racers' personalities; I do, however, find aspects of them interesting, in a clinical sort of way.

"He had heard that I allegedly made a derogatory comment about his victory from the year before on the shortened downhill course on Kitzbuhel's Streif. Which was complete nonsense, of course."

Actually (by the way), it isn't complete nonsense. In fact, Maier, earlier in the book, dismisses that race and the results (thus the winner) in Maier's almost signature "polite, friendly slap-in-the-face" way.
post #22 of 24
Yeah well.. the damn book is taking forever to arrive here . I was just observing that the quote you posted disproves your comment on some level (the rest of the book probably justifies your opinion)..
On the othe hand, Maier happens to be my all time favorite skier, so I'll defend him anyway

jinxie
post #23 of 24
hey, jinx, i hope you're taking this in the spirit it's intended; namely, skiers dishing about skiers we like to watch ski. i truly admire (admaier?) hermann maier; i love to watch him in attack mode.

i'm not on either side of any fence on this.

i did find this, though, to touch upon what i mentioned above, re rahlves and maier:

http://www.sportsfilter.com/members/...fm?user_ID=478

(scroll down a little...)

Austrian Herman Maier never fails to respond to a loss with a reason why the winner didn't really win, and this time was no exception, as he claimed to have lost half a second in the Hausberg traverse (for the uninitiated, that's an eternity in the downhill). In other words, you didn't win it, Daron, I lost it. Maier had the same trash to talk when he lost to Rahlves in the Hahnenkamm downhill last year. Rahlves shrugged it off. He's got a shiny new gondola with his name on it in Kitzbuhel -- and Maier doesn't. And, after tomorrow, Rahlves just might have another of those funky antelope-on-drugs Hahnenkamm trophies.
post #24 of 24
I just finished Bode's book. Read the Herminator's a few weeks ago. Both are easy reads. Maier's is more focused and better organized (big surprise). Bode gets a little too preachy for my tastes, especially about things he knows very little about. Both, I think, are worth reading just for the insights into world cup racing.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion