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Binding din - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Have always cranked them up higher than specs a MIN of 2

The Marker Race's are cranked to 12 out of 14...both heel and toe
Anything less and I will occasionally pre-release

I would rather brake my leg with a non release than die hitting a tree at high speed due to pre-release..
post #32 of 55
Funny how many of you say you'd rather break something than pre-release, or how you've tightened way up to avoid pre-release. Check with an orthopedist: Those knees you tear up with your high DIN's will be osteoarthritic lumps in 20-30 years that'll hurt everytime you flex. But hey, I guess that's nowhere near as bad as the frustration of pre-releasing and ruining a perfectly good run. Not to mention your friends seeing you covered in snow. Enjoy now, pay later!!
post #33 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond
Funny how many of you say you'd rather break something than pre-release, or how you've tightened way up to avoid pre-release. Check with an orthopedist: Those knees you tear up with your high DIN's will be osteoarthritic lumps in 20-30 years that'll hurt everytime you flex. But hey, I guess that's nowhere near as bad as the frustration of pre-releasing and ruining a perfectly good run. Not to mention your friends seeing you covered in snow. Enjoy now, pay later!!
I'm 55 freakin years old now with good knees and a good attitude and you don't ski steep back country trees and chutes where if you fall and nobody comes to help it gets cold and the silence is deafening. So, you don't understand. I'm not alone. My suspicions were correct. There are many here who ski with their din above recommended.
post #34 of 55
Lars, I ski with higher DINs and share a lot in common with you. But to play devils advocate on this. You are skiing steep powder in chutes and trees. If caught in a significant snow slide, or a tree well, wouldn't you want to be able to kick out of the skis or have them release by the impacts/fall.

I obviously don't practice this, cause I can't kick out of my skis to save my life...really. Just collecting your thoughts, and having second thoughts of my own.
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond
I guess that's nowhere near as bad as the frustration of pre-releasing and ruining a perfectly good run. Not to mention your friends seeing you covered in snow. Enjoy now, pay later!!
I think it's more about going splat into a big tree or rock face at 80mph than getting covered with snow. Hitting a solid object at 80mph can ruin your whole day.
post #36 of 55
Thread Starter 
cirquerider, I've been upside down in a treewell before and my skis binding din was set at 7.5, regular setting, and couldn't twist out. Both arms were stuck in snow with my pole straps still on my hands. I was in there. Luckily, my face was close to the trunk and there was a nice pocket of air. Friends pulled me out. I've never been in a big slide thank God, mostly just sluff. I've discussed outs with my Cousin and some guys that we ski with. What to do if caught in a slide, chances aren't good anyhow. I do three or four trips out West every year. When the conditions are right and I have someone I know and trust to go with, back country is where to go. Most of the time it's inbounds stuff otherwise and never OB if the avey danger is more than considerable. I have all the confidence in the world in my abilities. Even at 55 I feel up to just about anything. What limits me any more is climbing at 12,000 feet. I'm not as strong as I was five years ago. I don't fall. I haven't fallen in five years. My biggest fear is losing a ski while still in control or recovering someplace where a fall would be severe injury or worse. I don't expect many of the posters here to understand what I am thinking unless you've been there. What seems foolish to some is common practice for others.

Hey, I'm not the big back country guru. Most of my ski days are at the Resort and my B2's are on 8.5. When the pow is good or I get the opportunity to ski with my Cousin and friends BC, I got the fatties and they are at 11 or 12 and I can ski with peace of mind. If I screw up and make a skiing mistake, hopefully I'll come out ok, if not, I'll make do.
post #37 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
Lars, I ski with higher DINs and share a lot in common with you. But to play devils advocate on this. You are skiing steep powder in chutes and trees. If caught in a significant snow slide, or a tree well, wouldn't you want to be able to kick out of the skis or have them release by the impacts/fall.

I obviously don't practice this, cause I can't kick out of my skis to save my life...really. Just collecting your thoughts, and having second thoughts of my own.
Ah, you just had a near holy experience. You've probably had closer to death near misses in your car. If you learn from these, that's good. But on't start thinking about that stuff everytime you ski. That's not healthy or fun.

You did say it was the best ever powder day didn't you?
post #38 of 55
I see no need to crank up the DIN. I'm Level III, 160 lbs., 291 mm boot and my Atomics are set at 6. I was even doing jump turns on the steeps at Crested Butte and didn't come close to pre-releasing.
post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond
Funny how many of you say you'd rather break something than pre-release, or how you've tightened way up to avoid pre-release. Check with an orthopedist: Those knees you tear up with your high DIN's will be osteoarthritic lumps in 20-30 years that'll hurt everytime you flex. But hey, I guess that's nowhere near as bad as the frustration of pre-releasing and ruining a perfectly good run. Not to mention your friends seeing you covered in snow. Enjoy now, pay later!!
I don't think there's a need to be quite so judgmental. Everyone here is an adult and they have weighed the pros and cons of their DIN settings, then chosen what works for them. DIN settings are "guidelines" and are not set in stone. Some people don't touch their DINs, others do. I think you'll find it's the more experienced skiers who are the ones even thinking about this issue. And their decisions are based on extensive personal experience. Every tech I've ever spoken with says that you start with your recommended setting, then tweak it to suit your skiing style/needs. Some people keep them the same, some up them .5-1.5, others crank them up.

When I use demos, every single time, I've simply been asked, "What do you want the DIN set to?" Heck, I'm FEMALE and they know enough to know, based on the ski I'm demoing, that I have a thought-out answer to that question.

All that said, I've never felt the need to change my DINs. But my husband does and he put a lot of thought into it before doing it (as I said before, by 1.0 or 1.5, and only the heel). We both ski the same terrain but have different needs based on the way we each ski.

No one here is telling others they SHOULD change their DINS too, they are talking about whether they do or not, and their reasons. Very informative discussion, I think.

Thatsagirl
post #40 of 55
I never touch my dins until I have a problem. I have been thinking of turning up my heel din as I have had two double ejections this year where I was not skiing that fast. I have come out of my bindings a few times (7.5) but I like the toe releasing as sometimes I make a bad move or have a ski tip hook up instead of slide and I don't see it as a major problem like a knee injury would be. All of the above are issues I have had inbounds.

In steep OB I have not cranked my din up and have never had a problem. I realize the issue with steep powder. If a ski is beyond the reach of my probe (it has a loop on the end) I'll just cut steps up with my shovel until my probe can reach it. I will only do that if I am the last one to drop in.
post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsagirl
I don't think there's a need to be quite so judgmental. Everyone here is an adult and they have weighed the pros and cons of their DIN settings, then chosen what works for them. DIN settings are "guidelines" and are not set in stone. Some people don't touch their DINs, others do. I think you'll find it's the more experienced skiers who are the ones even thinking about this issue. And their decisions are based on extensive personal experience. Every tech I've ever spoken with says that you start with your recommended setting, then tweak it to suit your skiing style/needs. Some people keep them the same, some up them .5-1.5, others crank them up.

When I use demos, every single time, I've simply been asked, "What do you want the DIN set to?" Heck, I'm FEMALE and they know enough to know, based on the ski I'm demoing, that I have a thought-out answer to that question.

All that said, I've never felt the need to change my DINs. But my husband does and he put a lot of thought into it before doing it (as I said before, by 1.0 or 1.5, and only the heel). We both ski the same terrain but have different needs based on the way we each ski.

No one here is telling others they SHOULD change their DINS too, they are talking about whether they do or not, and their reasons. Very informative discussion, I think.

Thatsagirl
TOUCHE!!!
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treewell
TOUCHE!!!
Perhaps...she says to the man who always fools around with his DIN...

Thatsagirl
post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsagirl
I don't think there's a need to be quite so judgmental. Everyone here is an adult and they have weighed the pros and cons of their DIN settings, then chosen what works for them. DIN settings are "guidelines" and are not set in stone. Some people don't touch their DINs, others do. I think you'll find it's the more experienced skiers who are the ones even thinking about this issue. And their decisions are based on extensive personal experience. Every tech I've ever spoken with says that you start with your recommended setting, then tweak it to suit your skiing style/needs. Some people keep them the same, some up them .5-1.5, others crank them up.
<snip>
No one here is telling others they SHOULD change their DINS too, they are talking about whether they do or not, and their reasons. Very informative discussion, I think.

Thatsagirl
I think the last word goes to you in this thead. Well said.
post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider
I think the last word goes to you in this thead. Well said.
Yes.
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeman View Post
If your a good skier and you don't crank up the Din at least a couple knotches, you won't be happy. I have saved my butt countless times by having the Din set above, well above what is recommended, otherwise your gonna come out and mash into a tree or rock or something. In an intermediate world, din settings are great and expected, but in the radical world, they hinder progress and development. If your on double black diamond or above and your on the recommended settings, I wish you luck, crank them up for safety, sounds weird maybe, but it is a simple fact. The recommended Din settings are for the average man on normal slopes. If you hot dog the trees and crud, steep and deep, crank it up and have a blast
I used to subscribe to this train of thought but I'm not so sure now. I'm 185 and fairly aggressive and I always skied with my look p14's on 10. Then last year some funny friends of mine decided to turn my din down to 6. I skied with them like that for over a week before one randomly popped off in the powder and I checked the setting.

Now I ski with them set at 8 and I haven't had any problems, total confidence. I think if I was smoother I could go even lower.
post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
Stats:

Level 10 (yes, legit level 10, I'm serious, if you have a problem with that, well, tough)
Holy cow, you're delusional. You may be a level 10 out of your group of friends, but I suspect you don't have many, so that's probably not too tough.

And seriously, if you could ski smoothly, without all of the extraneous noise, your setting could be much lower.
post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
Holy cow, you're delusional. You may be a level 10 out of your group of friends, but I suspect you don't have many, so that's probably not too tough.

And seriously, if you could ski smoothly, without all of the extraneous noise, your setting could be much lower.
Level 10 (yes, legit level 10, I'm serious, if you have a problem with that, well, tough)
post #48 of 55
post #49 of 55
Lars, You never addressed the question DIN with regard to avalanche. You said you won't go OB if the hazard is more than considerable. Does that mean you will go if it is "only" considerable? How does the risk of burial with skis still attached weigh against the fear of the binding releasing when not necessary?

Personally, I'm not really going to ski anywhere on a set up where the weak link is my ACL, and ACLs are notoriuosly weak. I've never damaged mine, but they snap pretty easy, even without a six foot long lever arm attached, for example playing basketball. Basketball players are always blowing ligaments wearing only sneakers!

Also, concerning your OB skiing. Are you wearing a transceiver when you go? Just curious. I'm not a backcountry guru either, in fact I'm a novice OB skier. But I wonder why you think getting separated from your skis is a greater risk than getting buried with them still on.

My bindings go up to five, but I ski them at 4 so I don't max them out.
post #50 of 55
Thread Starter 
Wow, an old thread revived. And with good discussion too. Highwaystar a 10 huh? Probably, if you read the description of a ten, he could be. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt till I get to ski with him. I think we all should.

telerod15, I don't figure to get buried in an avalanche with or without skis on so it really doesn't matter if I can kick out of them or not. Even if you an kick out of your skis, the chances of you swimming out isn't good.

Personally, I don't advocate you or anyone else risk their acl's due to a din setting higher than recommended. You may think it's stupid, some do some don't. Backcountry skiing is different than Resort skiing. You get into places where it's very steep and the turning is very tight. You're skiing through trees where hidden stumps and logs/limbs and even rocks are buried in the deep snow. You're hitting crap like that all the time and if you're bindings aren't cranked, they're going to come off sending you into a tree, a treewell, a rock or tumbling down a 45 degree chute out of control. Or at the least you're left 50 yards downhill on one ski and no freakin way to get back up there to find your ski and get it back on. Now, if the guy I'm skiing with is behind me, he could throw it down to me if he could find it and it wasn't broke. (never ski alone in these situations) But if he's downhill in front of me forget it. I suppose the risk of tearing your acl in these situations would leave you in just as bad a situation but to me the risk is less.

Do I use a transceiver all the time? Not always. If I'm cutting through the gates at a resort say ABasin, no. We usually just head over to some of the chutes towards Keystonelike the Beave and just hike up tothe road and hitch a ride back to the Basin. But other places like the Pass or over towards Montezuma, most definitly. The're no good alone though.If you're not with somebody else who has one it's not good.

Hey, I'm an Easterner and 55 years old. I don't ski alone and I always go with someone who is very experienced in backcountry and the terrain we ski. I don't go places that are unfamilier without someone who doesn't know the area or been there before. Someone we know always knows where we are also, just in case.
post #51 of 55
You don't figure to get buried with or without skis on, but maybe you should. I don't even consider kicking out (nobody can kick out of bindings while tumbling with avalanche). I assume getting caught in a serious slide will result in the skis coming off even with high DIN.

So, do you ski when avy danger is rated "considerable" which you imply and haven't taken oppurtunity to deny? Without transciever? Based on your "local" friend's advice? Think for yourself first.

I don't think it's stupid to ski a DIN a few notches over what the chart says.

PS, just because you are with others who have been there before, doesn't mean you are safe. It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Wow, an old thread revived. And with good discussion too. Highwaystar a 10 huh? Probably, if you read the description of a ten, he could be. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt till I get to ski with him. I think we all should.

telerod15, I don't figure to get buried in an avalanche with or without skis on so it really doesn't matter if I can kick out of them or not. Even if you an kick out of your skis, the chances of you swimming out isn't good.

Do I use a transceiver all the time? Not always. If I'm cutting through the gates at a resort say ABasin, no. We usually just head over to some of the chutes towards Keystonelike the Beave and just hike up tothe road and hitch a ride back to the Basin. But other places like the Pass or over towards Montezuma, most definitly. The're no good alone though.If you're not with somebody else who has one it's not good.
If it's the place I'm thinking of, isn't that a natural avi gulley. I skied the beave with a couple of friends during a moderate avi warning. When we got out there, My friends wanted to cross over and ski the open snowfield overlooked by a cornice. Another friend and I talked them out of it and we stayed next to the trees. A few weeks later 2 snowboarders were killed in that very run, and I saw it on a 60 minutes special on avalanches about 2 monthe later. Try to be smart, but if you're caught being stupid, be prepared.
Back on the subject, I can count on one hand the number of falls I take in a year, and I'm pretty good at falling without getting hurt (skis downhill quickly, skis together, yadda yadda), but still I ski with a DIN 8 (type 3 skier). I very rarely release at that, and when I do, it's always for reason.

In one instance 2 years ago, I was cutting through the woods moving fast at Jay Peak. A glimpse of a stream came up a few feet in front of me that I couldn't stop for, or turn without hitting a tree, but it easily looked jumpable. So I aired it. I was able to land on snow on the other side but it was soft, and my tails sank before my body got to the packed snow. I came to a stop with my tails sinking into the snow and my tails on the bank of packed snow. I felt my calves stretch as my bindings heel released. I strained my gastroc, but if my DIN were up at 10 as sugested, I'd still probably be nursing a repaired achilles tendon.
post #53 of 55
Don't play at Jay.
post #54 of 55
Thread Starter 
No I don't ski backcountry when the danger rating is considerable. I do when it's rated moderate but it's rated moderate most of the time. I didn't get to be 55 years old from stupidity. And I trust my friend completely. He has many years of experience backcountry.Believe me, I wouldn't do what I do if I didn't trust him.

About the din thing. It's a personal thing. I've been skiing for 50 years and never had a knee or leg injury, with or without cranking my din.

I seriously doubt you can tear an achilles tendon with ski boots on.
post #55 of 55
Well, I've only skied 45 years without a knee or leg injury, but I'm not assuming it was because of my shrewd choice of DIN. In fact, I haven't used DIN in the last ten years. I do like a binding that comes apart before my knee does, but I've skied a lot with non-releasable bindings. Just lucky, I guess.
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