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Self Perception Irony - Page 3

post #61 of 80
maybe you should also have different category 'days' of skiing.. one day of heli or cat skiing should count for 2 regular days, 1 day at blue mountain ontario with their 'experts only' double diamonds that i've seen
a first time skier barrel down on without even breaking his gaper neck : (ok, he was brave, but style is also required) should probably count as a quater-day. oh yeah, and 1 day at the local molehill (chicopee, kitchener in this case) should count as about 2 minutes : .
not that hills that don't pose much of a challange are not fun (as long as the skis are strapped on, life is good), but it's hard to improve "all terrain" skills on a groomed blue/green run.

as long as there's room to improve i wouldn't consider myself an expert (an there's lots of room to improve, i've got at least 30 good years of skiing left!), but I think the label is mostly used as a defence against people who claim they're experts while perfecting the art of going fast in a wedge
post #62 of 80
please delete
post #63 of 80
Yep, it's the old "What is an expert?"

Obviously I'm willing to accept a lower-level skier as an expert. I don't think we really disagree in terms of how good a skier the typical athletic type is after sixty days, and that the same someone with 90000 days under their belt is better. We need a new term for Ubber experts. To me if someone can make the skis go where he wants them to at fast and slow speeds on any terrain short of vertical and has some understanding of how he does it, he's good enough to be an expert. To other people the expert also needs a degree specializing in biomechanics, ski teaching certificates, and never puts a foot(ski) wrong, ever!.

And no! Don't count my days at Chicopee as 2 minutes! I can make 2 maybe three turns every time down that hill with my new short skis. Give it 2 hours .

Blue Mountain Ontario on the other hand, though vertically challenged and not very steep, still allows one to get up to speed and practise varius technique. You can get just as much high speed air on senator, Lone rider or starting gate as on many a blue square out west . They even had some hard icy bumps at Blue today.
post #64 of 80
offtopic: yup, lone rider was it! (one of my favorites at blue, especially at the end of the day when it's scraped clean) .. a guy on his 4th run (ever!!) straightlined the darn thing.
i wonder how much snow they still have, hope it's good for 2 more weekends :
post #65 of 80
I think criteria may differ depending on who you talk to. I feel that I can ski nearly everything, nearly anytime (although not always with grace and elegance), and after spending time on this board and one ESA course, I consider myself a solid level 7. I spoke with someone at a resort recently who just had a lesson from a well respected ski school. According to him , he skiied his first black trail that day, and the instructor told him that he was a level 8 skier...
post #66 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbinder
I think criteria may differ depending on who you talk to. I feel that I can ski nearly everything, nearly anytime (although not always with grace and elegance), and after spending time on this board and one ESA course, I consider myself a solid level 7. I spoke with someone at a resort recently who just had a lesson from a well respected ski school. According to him , he skiied his first black trail that day, and the instructor told him that he was a level 8 skier...
What reference are you using for your "level 7"? According to PSIA http://www.psia-e.org/ed/ , you could be a 9:. I think a lot of people under-rate themselves just so that they won't be shot down as a braggart.

It would be very interesting to have an epic level chart. I suspect the Epic levels would have most bears at 7 or 8, even those who zipper-line moguls, huck cliffs, ski frozen waterfalls and win Master's races.
post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
What reference are you using for your "level 7"? According to PSIA http://www.psia-e.org/ed/ , you could be a 9:.
Jeeze that ranking is very different from what I've been taught. Grade inflation comes to PSIA-E.

New motto "Anyone can be a level 9 skier!"
post #68 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
Jeeze that ranking is very different from what I've been taught. Grade inflation comes to PSIA-E.

New motto "Anyone can be a level 9 skier!"
This one is a little better, but still I suspect many a bear's "solid 7" would rank as at least 8 here. http://lib.ru/SKI/skilevel.txt
post #69 of 80
  • Novice (levels 1-4)
  • Level 1: (You have never skied before). You'll learn about your equipment, how to walk and slide with your skis parallel, climb using your ski edges, turn while standing in place, stop and turn using the braking wedge, learn how to get up from a fall, and how to ride a chair lift.
    Ski on green (easy) slopes.
  • Level 2: You will learn how to do a gliding left and right wedge turn, ski at slightly faster speeds, improve your balance and stopping skills.
    Ski on green (easy) slopes.
  • Level 3: You will start your turns in the gliding wedge, but will end the turn with your skis in a parallel position, if possible with some skidding; ski at faster speeds than in level 2.
    Ski on steeper parts of green (moderately easy) slopes.
  • Level 4: You will still start your turns in the gliding wedge, but will have your skis in a parallel position by mid-turn; sideslip exercises; practice skidded parallel turns to a stop (or hockey stop); ski at faster speeds.
    Ski on steeper green (moderately easy) slopes, adding longer runs.

    Intermediate (levels 5-7)
  • Level 5: You will still start your turns in the gliding wedge, but before mid-turn your feet will be in the parallel position; you will begin using ski-pole touches; experience uneven slopes and easier ungroomed snow conditions; ski at faster speeds and practice on blue slopes; you will begin to see the mountain from a different perspective, and experience the joys of skiing.
    Ski on steeper green (moderately easy) slopes or blue (intermediate) slopes.
  • Level 6: You will be in the parallel position throughout each turn, linked with ski-pole touches. You keep your skis parallel on most blue runs if the conditions are good. When the conditions are challenging, you often revert back to a wedge to start your turns. You may experience shallow powder and or small bumps. You should be able to adjust skiing speed when necessary regardless of slope angle or snow type.
    Ski on blue (intermediate) and sometimes steeper blue slopes.
  • Level 7: You will develop your skills into powder and bumps and ungroomed snow. Link short-radius turns together. Begin to isolate the skills of turning by pivoting the skis versus turning by tilting them, ski advanced terrain.
    Ski on blue (intermediate) and easier black (more difficult) slopes.

    Advanced (levels 8-9)
  • Level 8: You apply variations to your turns for effect in varying conditions. Tilting the ski becomes the main tool for turning you instead of twisting the ski with your foot, except in special situations like bumps or quick stops. Explore alternate turn entries-converging, parallel step, diverging, inside ski, one ski.
    Ski on black (most difficult) and possibly double-black (extreme) slopes.
  • Level 9: You can ski confidently on any expert terrain and in any snow condition. Ski bumps with short or long-radius turns, ski deep powder, ski steep; use the carved turn as your principal turning method.
    Ski on all slopes in all conditions
post #70 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
Intermediate (levels 5-7)
  • Level 5: You will still start your turns in the gliding wedge, but before mid-turn your feet will be in the parallel position; you will begin using ski-pole touches; experience uneven slopes and easier ungroomed snow conditions; ski at faster speeds and practice on blue slopes; you will begin to see the mountain from a different perspective, and experience the joys of skiing.
    Ski on steeper green (moderately easy) slopes or blue (intermediate) slopes.
: : : :
skiers using a wedge should never be classified as intermediate!!!
it's a learning tool!

kinda like saying someone is an intermediate cyclist while they're still riding a tricycle!
post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
  • Level 7: You will develop your skills into powder and bumps and ungroomed snow. Link short-radius turns together. Begin to isolate the skills of turning by pivoting the skis versus turning by tilting them, ski advanced terrain.
    Ski on blue (intermediate) and easier black (more difficult) slopes.

    Advanced (levels 8-9)
  • Level 8: You apply variations to your turns for effect in varying conditions. Tilting the ski becomes the main tool for turning you instead of twisting the ski with your foot, except in special situations like bumps or quick stops. Explore alternate turn entries-converging, parallel step, diverging, inside ski, one ski.
    Ski on black (most difficult) and possibly double-black (extreme) slopes.
  • Level 9: You can ski confidently on any expert terrain and in any snow condition. Ski bumps with short or long-radius turns, ski deep powder, ski steep; use the carved turn as your principal turning method.
    Ski on all slopes in all conditions
Based on this chart, I would rank myself as a mid-8, but other folks (who seem wiser about these things than I) still tell me that I am a level 7. Whatever the rank, I would rather underestimate my ability when talking to strangers: it makes for less embarrasment when we meet on the slopes. And whatever the rank, I still have a heck of alot of fun on the mountain!
post #72 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF
Those who ski only a week or so of the year probably chalk up their inability to handle "interesting snow" to tiredness or having a bad day or altitude or something other then lack of ability. "I skied fine the other days, so I must be an expert".
I usually blame my equipment....
post #73 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbinder
I would rather underestimate my ability when talking to strangers: it makes for less embarrasment when we meet on the slopes.
The very reason there are so few experts here.

It's much easier to say "I'm a 7" and then meet people and have them tell you you're better, than tell them you're a 9 and have to eat crow when they see you ski.
post #74 of 80
I've never cared what level of skier I was. But have always tried to improve. Don't consider myself an expert, but I get around ok.
post #75 of 80
Silder has nailed it.

We can all get around all right. But a sense of the snow is really, really nice.

I've been reading Weems book. The back half of it is really good--it's four chapters of tips, take them or leave them, as he puts it. Some will make sense, others, just pass over. The first half is a perspective that you can buy into, or not, but is worth plowing through. In a nutshell, balance is the key, call it a diamond, or whatever, staying centered is the recreational jewel.
post #76 of 80
These ratings are all so fluid and dependent on how much time/practice you've had. Not just covering the last 10-15 years but in the recent past. Skills deteriorate if they are not used. I'm not the skier I was three years ago for a variety of reasons. If one looks at golf, the measurement is made by a handicap but even then a scratch golfer at the local field is not going to be the same as a scratch golfer at Baltusrol. It takes time, practice and frequent playing to keep skills sharp. I think you need to realistically look at setting your goals and not to pay too much attention to outside ratings. I'm never going to ski Alaska or any other extreme situation. My forays into deep powder are very few and far between. My goal is to ski any nasty bump situation with grace. My biggest problem is not to berate myself because I don't want to tackle certain terrain on a given day. Got to face facts, I'm never going to be Scot Schmidt (Even the present Scot Schmidt isn't as good as the younger one - he doesn't ski nearly as much).
post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF
...Those who ski only a week or so of the year probably chalk up their inability to handle "interesting snow" to tiredness or having a bad day or altitude or something other then lack of ability. "I skied fine the other days, so I must be an expert".
I usually blame it on (lack of) visibility.
post #78 of 80
expert skiing seems hard to define but as someone said above, it's all about balance. when you're truly balanced and centered on your skis, any terrain becomes easy and fun...bumps, steeps, ice, crud...it's all the same. expert skiing is effortless...once you feel what it's like, even just for a moment, you will never forget it.
post #79 of 80
Poor LisaMarie has sat silently watching her thread disintegrate into something that doesn't really address her original post about how people appear to underestimate or overestimate their ability level when answering her surveys.

So, LisaMarie, have you talked with anyone at work about how you might be getting "incorrect" answers that skew your results and ways to address that? I am just curious.

Thatsagirl
post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Madison
expert skiing is effortless...once you feel what it's like, even just for a moment, you will never forget it.
Beautifully said. Had the feeling for a couple of hours this morning
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