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An open challenge for HH to explain something.  

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have been lurking here for several years, since being exposed to this site by my friend, WTFH. While I am not an experienced skier, I do enjoy it immensely!

Having followed along with many of the various threads, the vitriol of some has intrigued me. One of the recurring themes I have seen is the animosity between Epic members and the Realskiers (i.e.- HH, himself).

The most recent edition of this has HH taking some measure of credit for the success of certain athletes at the Olympics. While I do not challenge his claims in this regard, it did cause me to question the veracity of some of his other claims.

With the assistance of a friend who works at the FIS headquarters in Switzerland, I asked him to perform a background check on HH's World Cup experience, a point he constantly refers to as his primary source of knowledge and as his greatest credential. The results of this search was quite astounding!

According to the search performed by the archivist, the FIS has absolutely no records of HH having ever competed in even a single World Cup event! Given that all World Cup records from the very earliest races have been computerized, I find this outcome to be a very serious blow to HH's credibility! After all his rhetoric about his background, this search certainly challenges whether or not many of his other claims are factual.

I would welcome HH to respond to this. I am not sure what he can say to refute the findings of the FIS search, but an explanation of his previous claims is in order. Otherwise, his entire history has to come under close scrutiny. Maybe the next search should be of the Canadian archives, and see what information they might hold?

HH- what say ye?
post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgafahh
With the assistance of a friend who works at the FIS headquarters in Switzerland, I asked him to perform a background check on HH's World Cup experience, a point he constantly refers to as his primary source of knowledge and as his greatest credential. The results of this search was quite astounding!
I don't care much one way or the other, but I think in the interest of accuracy that HH has claimed to have COACHED world cup racers rather than to have raced himself.

I could be wrong, of course. It's happened plenty of times before.
post #3 of 21
wgafahh,

Repost this at realskiers.com Harald DISPISES Epicski.com.....

L
post #4 of 21
Sorry Bob,

From www.harbskisystems.com:

Harald Harb is President of Harb Ski Systems. Born in Austria, he moved to eastern Canada at an early age. Harald has World Cup racing experience with the Canadian National Ski Team, and later was the Overall Pro Champion on the Eastern Regional Circuit. He then started to coach racers and directed racing programs.

Looks pretty clear to me, coaching was AFTER racing on the National Team.
post #5 of 21
I think this is probably a dead end. He likely raced under a more austrian name or something. That would not be unusual.

Anyway, its not going to change my opinion of PMTS or Harb much. I judge on the merits of what I see not what others say.
post #6 of 21
Declaring someone a fraud is dangerous business. Careful.

I doubt very much HH will give your question a moment's notice, for one reason he doesn't come to Epic anymore and for another thing he doesn't care at all what you guys think about PMTS or him.

Secondly, I don't know much about FIS or how all that works, but is there any possibility that he was involved with the Canadian Ski team as a youth or some capacity was training with them but never actually reached full FIS competitor status?
post #7 of 21
Seriously...Pierre... I agree. HH has obviously had a lot of training, in PSIA, D Team, race coaching..(and somewhere way back there some racing himself). All the coaching background is undeniable. Why on earth would he lie about whether he ever he raced as a teenager? He wouldn't lie about it, he doesn't need to. But more importantly, where is coming from is not "I used to be a top racer so do it the way I do it". He is coming from the aspect of having trained and coached with many different people over a long period of years and arrived at a well thought out way to approach skiing.

If Bode Miller, on the other hand, came out with a book on skiing I wouldn't give it a moments notice..he skis like a hack. I've seen video of him in bumps and he flat out sucked. I could really care less about whatever technique he is using. See the point? Racing in FIS and even getting gold medals (or not)really has little to do with whether or not HH is qualified to do what he is doing now, coaching.
post #8 of 21
first, playing detective with the guy's name is a little extreme, and, secondly, the FIS does NOT keep strong records of events from more than 20 years ago.
their snowboard records are especially ill-archived. hell- look up results of early FIS snowboard events, such as US Opens, etc., and you'll see runs completed by famous comeptitors, runs which you may have witnessed in person, in the flesh, absolutely unmentioned.
I made a stink about one of my own polish athletes' point runs being overlooked at an FIS event, and i got an apology, his points stood,
but there was no correction of the omission.

Twice I
playfully challenged a couple of well-known skiers on their 'questionable' participation in some events, participation for which there were NO FIS records to be found, and later i got to view videotapes of the events, showing, quite clearly, the 'questionable' competitors' runs.
Twice i got my foot shoved into my mouth in this regard, both times by a weltcup coach who kept careful video records of his athletes' runs, for training purposes.
real eye-opener.
i am absolutely ignorant to the name harald harb, and when i've read said name here on epic, my memory's confused it with a guy at BMW AG whom i used to have to report to (harald hoffmarksrichter).
I have NO dog in this fight, and for all i know, your own HH could be an utter phony (my spidy sense says otherwise, though). making that judgement based upon your own inability to find FIS mention of his name, however, is an ethically suicidal undertaking, and i'd advise treading very carefully when setting about calling a man a liar, online or en vivo.
post #9 of 21
A little digging turned up the following without much sweat involved:

http://www.canski.org/webconcepteur/...ml?iddoc=77771

He does have the credentials. If I had've seen this thread earlier, I would have asked Michel Pratte about him during his visit here, as they were both tech skiers on the Canadian team (although perhaps during different eras).

I'd rather see threads on the substance of PMTS, rather than ones on Harald himself. He's a very polarizing figure, although you might find you like the guy if you ever skied with him. The internet has a way of skewing (or magnifying) personality traits.
post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
Alaska Mike-

With all deference to your knowledge and background in ski racing, I appreciate that you managed to confirm that HH was indeed once a member of the Canadian Ski Team. I have stipulated to that fact without question. But is it not possible that a Team Member might never actually compete at the most elite level?

After all, there have been many individuals named to the Ski Team of GB who have never raced a single World Cup event.

For the meanwhile, I will stand by the results of the FIS database search, which I have been assured is complete and accurate. If this information is proven by HH or anyone else to be inaccurate, then I shall acknowledge and accept that fact.
post #11 of 21
Nevermind
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike
The internet has a way of skewing (or magnifying) personality traits.
well put, yukon....well put.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgafahh

For the meanwhile, I will stand by the results of the FIS database search, which I have been assured is complete and accurate. If this information is proven by HH or anyone else to be inaccurate, then I shall acknowledge and accept that fact.
ahhh, yes.
guilty until proven innocent.
wonderful.
incidentally, the local jehovah's witnesses have assured me that all of their own printed matter is, in fact, complete and accurate.
as did the spam popup i received a few minutes ago telling me that i could
increase my penile dimensions by 200% with a simple pill. the popup even had a doctor's statement.
golly.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgafahh
Alaska Mike-

With all deference to your knowledge and background in ski racing, I appreciate that you managed to confirm that HH was indeed once a member of the Canadian Ski Team. I have stipulated to that fact without question. But is it not possible that a Team Member might never actually compete at the most elite level?

After all, there have been many individuals named to the Ski Team of GB who have never raced a single World Cup event.

For the meanwhile, I will stand by the results of the FIS database search, which I have been assured is complete and accurate. If this information is proven by HH or anyone else to be inaccurate, then I shall acknowledge and accept that fact.
Let it go; you're not doing youself any favours.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
...as did the spam popup i received a few minutes ago telling me that i could increase my penile dimensions by 200% with a simple pill. the popup even had a doctor's statement.
The Internet Paradox - when the following statement is found on the net: "You can't trust the information you find on Internet".
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgafahh
.

For the meanwhile, I will stand by the results of the FIS database search, which I have been assured is complete and accurate. If this information is proven by HH or anyone else to be inaccurate, then I shall acknowledge and accept that fact.
and, being i've assured you that FIS records are, in fact, often innacurate,
please feel free to prove that they're accurate.
slippery slope you're on, here.
maybe it's time to let it go, and not continue to attack a person, as opposed to an idea, here, against the forum rules....
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgafahh

With the assistance of a friend who works at the FIS headquarters in Switzerland, ?
who's your "friend", there? a name would be helpful.
i mean, if you're going to play the "Prove it" game, why don't you produce a name? and maybe contact info for your "friend" at FIS?
I have some questions of my own for him/her.
anxiously awaiting,
-Vlad
post #18 of 21
I just want "Zorro's Friend" to explain the silly acronym behind his name, I'm guessing the terminal "hh" has to do with Mr Harb and I want to know the whole friggin' thing.
post #19 of 21
To be honest, I haven't found any information to prove or disprove he competed at the World Cup level. However, given the track record of FIS in regards to consistency and records keeping, I still give Harald the benefit of the doubt on this one. In the circles he travels in, someone would have exposed him as a fraud long before now if there was no substance to his claims.

I could just as easily dispute your claim of being WTFH's friend. If an internet "friend" archive doesn't have you two linked, then obviously you don't know each other. I openly challenge you to prove you know Wear The Fox Hat.

Like Vlad, I have no real interest in this other than to keep the quality of discourse on this board above a certain level. Despite Harald's beliefs to the contrary, EpicSki is not the official all-PSIA, bash-PMTS forum. While the majority of instructors who post here are affiliated with PSIA, the same can be said of most instructors in this country. There's also race coaches, foreign certs, and maybe even a few GLM advocates here. To question the personal integrity of any of them serves no real positive purpose. It just draws the line a little more clearly between "us" and "them", when no line should exist in the first place.
post #20 of 21
last I checked, you need FIS points to make the National team.

Good enough?
post #21 of 21
Enough on this subject. The original question was a bit out-of-place here on EpicSki, since Harald does not visit here. However, the question has been addressed and continuing attempts to discredit HH via this approach are inappropriate and smack of just the bias that he and others have accused this site of having.

As a result, I am locking this thread. Alaska Mike's post linking to the Canadian National Team pages are sufficient to answer the initial question.
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