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how about a new mailbox for an old debate? - Page 2  

post #31 of 44
Steve does that answer your question?

Its not possible to have objective, reasonable discussions about PMTS ski technique here on Epic. Way too much bad blood, from what I can tell caused almost exclusively from finger pointing, name calling and other childish activities. I think the only way you could do it would be to create a special moderated room and if anyone starts to flame up the HH wars, you delete their post and ban them from the room. They can object to the skiing, but no personal attacks allowed. Otherwise, we'll never get anywhere.

I for one would really like to have those discussions here, in order to reasonably explore the contrasts to it. Its not really possible to explore all sides of it on realskiers.com. That site is about 100% embracing it. Which is fine, I get that and have no problem with it. It would be nice to have some constructive, yet alternative discussions about how to blend those skills in with other PSIA (or other) approaches here on Epic...but frankly...the discussions almost always take a radical left turn. There definitely are a few key people that are blinded by rage. Perhaps this is because of that guy who is gone now. Perhaps its because of a lot of things. Doesn't matter. Point is, objective discussion can't take place now....rather unfortunately..

Incidentally, I happened to stumble across an interesting article online by Lito Flores...its an article about a sit down pow wow between him and HH. Some of you might find this interesting and it pretty much explains why both Lito and HH have branched away from PSIA..

http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pa...ruction05.html

By the way, Lito has a lot of interesting articles on this site, go here to see them all.

http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pages/backissues.html
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewdman42
Incidentally, I happened to stumble across an interesting article online by Lito Flores...its an article about a sit down pow wow between him and HH. Some of you might find this interesting and it pretty much explains why both Lito and HH have branched away from PSIA..

http://www.breakthroughonskis.com/Pa...ruction05.html
Dewd,

Nice article, but it was written seven years ago in 1999. PSIA HAS changed what they teach since then (and maybe we can give HH a small piece of the credit for that). But I don't know anbody that teaches, skid, grab slam....

L
post #33 of 44
I believe I stated quite clearly that the article, not in so many words, would give some "historical perspective". I'm not going to engage with you Lonnie on this. Glad to hear you at least read it.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewdman42
I believe I stated quite clearly that the article, not in so many words, would give some "historical perspective". I'm not going to engage with you Lonnie on this. Glad to hear you at least read it.
No that's fine, I wasn't picking a fight. But a lot of what is complained about in the article I don't think is going on anymore (at least for a skills perspective). In 1999, when that was written, shaped skis were just starting to boom, but techniques being taught hadn't caught up yet. In that context, I think everything that was said, was true. I still don't think it applies to today's ski teaching. Yes we still use the "holy grail" Pressure control, edging, rotary, but the blend of those has changed to meet technology...

L
post #35 of 44
Perhaps some meaningful debate can take place on those points if you can manage to refrain from complaining about the man, Harald Harb, or his presentation style, or without getting defensive about what PSIA does or doesn't do.

I'm late for an appt, so must run now.....
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by carv_lust
If the Rustys of this forum just left the thread alone, let the visitors post their opinions and experiences, without attaching them, the threads would die, quickly. They can’t seem to hold back when they have a chance to vilify HH.
which rusty?

wanna come to WP and ski bumps together sometime? maybe we can even see if i can manage to carve a turn or two or ski in the trees on the jane side a bit?

i'd love to give you a little tour
post #37 of 44
Lonnie you only think that PMTS is limited because you are limited. And who cares what you think anyway!!! Especially because you know nothing about PMTS and you continually flap your mouth about what you know nothing about.
post #38 of 44
Rusty you really have an inferiority complex. OK, dude, big show down at Winter Park, challenge me to ski the bumps, I’m impressed. You continually under whelm me. Rusty “Big” Guy, called me out, see you at Noon tomorrow, if I’m not there start without me..
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by carv_lust
Lonnie you only think that PMTS is limited because you are limited. And who cares what you think anyway!!! Especially because you know nothing about PMTS and you continually flap your mouth about what you know nothing about.
Right, since you know everything about everything. : Meaningless, petty bs like this will only ensure that no one listens to you.
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by carv_lust
Lonnie you only think that P M T S is limited because you are limited. And who cares what you think anyway!!! Especially because you know nothing about P M T S and you continually flap your mouth about what you know nothing about.
CL,

Sticks and stones brother, sticks and stones...

I've read haralds book many, many times. It's was on my nightstand all winter. I've had lots of discussions here about P M T S. I'm might not know all the ins and outs, but I do know the core concepts. You just hate that I DO know something about it and we both know the weaknesses. Come on, admit that it's not a perfect system.

L
post #41 of 44
Lonnie again, why is it always Lonnie and Rusty, they love to hate. Lonnie you are in a dream land. I ski and visit many ski resorts. I watch ski instructors. PSIA doesn’t exist. Their influence or at least the changes you are trying to promote since the meeting between Lito and HH don’t exist. You might be right, but only if you are referring to the informed PSIA insiders, maybe the very ones that were around and learned from HH. The real test is in what is happening on the slopes. And that is a joke.

Look, I have been a PSIA member and full cert for more than twenty five years. I am insulted by what I see is happening on the slopes. I stop often and listen to instructors at Winter Park, Vail, Copper, their lessons are a joke. I hear, “up and around”, I see poor demonstrations, I see poor comments. I hear cheer leading not substantive feedback.

I am embarrassed to be a PSIA instructor when I see what is happening on the slopes. I don’t know where you ski or teach, but the majority of PSIA lessons are insulting and a rip-off.
PSIA had one opportunity and that was when Harb was on the demo team and tried to change PSIA for the better. That chance is gone, squandered, now instead you have to lie and make excuses for the lack of quality.
post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by carv_lust
PSIA had one opportunity and that was when Harb was on the demo team and tried to change PSIA for the better. That chance is gone, squandered, now instead you have to lie and make excuses for the lack of quality.
Yeah, I've talked to members that were on the team with Harald. Any thing that was squandered, was done so by harald's style and personality. He can blame himself. To be fair, this is all second hand as I would not know the man if I passed him on the street.
post #43 of 44
Perfect, you just supported exactly what I said.
post #44 of 44
OK. that's enough..

This is just about where SCSA and Epic parted ways..

This may or may not be a permanent closure..

DC
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › how about a new mailbox for an old debate?