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just a thought ski/binding innovations

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
anyone wonder why they dont make skis with pre-dried holes in it like (line and snowboards) do? Im thinking all the ski shops and ski-techs would be crying foul. If it wasnt for binding mountings, most skis shops would be out of biz. And all those ski bum techs would be out of a job.
post #2 of 21
onstar, I think you've missed a lot of what's happened with binding systems. I can mount most binding system bindings on the floor of my family room without any special jigs or anything else. Some have pre-drilled holes, some don't have any holes (they rails are integrated into the ski). They aren't quite the "swap from ski to ski" system that Line has, but they are certainly making it easier for just about anyone to mount bindings. That's one of the reason that I like the system skis/bindings.
post #3 of 21
Onstar-

The average person might buy a pair of skis every other year (not all of them are weirdos like some of us here...), and generally, if you buy skis and bindings from a shop, the mounting is free. I think you may need to re-think that idea. The one thing I do see going wrong with average Joe Idiot mounting their own bindings is that they flat-out do it incorrectly, and injure themselves. It happens.

My issue with pre-selected bindings is I prefer to choose waht I want, and for that reason, Fischer AMC's are not going to be in my quiver, as I really don't like Tyrolia products.
post #4 of 21
axe- do you ski volkl, k2 and others with Marker bindings?

Onstar- forget systems, forget liability and go to the root. There isn't a hole pattern that matches all the patterns from each company. Look, Sollie, Tyrolia all use a different pattern and your skis would look like swiss cheese.

Because Telemark bindings are more standardized, companies like k2 have inserts in the ski to accept tele bindings without drilling.
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJP
axe- do you ski volkl, k2 and others with Marker bindings?

Onstar- forget systems, forget liability and go to the root. There isn't a hole pattern that matches all the patterns from each company. Look, Sollie, Tyrolia all use a different pattern and your skis would look like swiss cheese.

Because Telemark bindings are more standardized, companies like k2 have inserts in the ski to accept tele bindings without drilling.
im sure they can make all the hole patterns the same. If they only put their heads together.
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker
Onstar-

The average person might buy a pair of skis every other year (not all of them are weirdos like some of us here...), and generally, if you buy skis and bindings from a shop, the mounting is free. I think you may need to re-think that idea. The one thing I do see going wrong with average Joe Idiot mounting their own bindings is that they flat-out do it incorrectly, and injure themselves. It happens.

My issue with pre-selected bindings is I prefer to choose waht I want, and for that reason, Fischer AMC's are not going to be in my quiver, as I really don't like Tyrolia products.
all the stores in my city charge 20 bucks to mount when i buy bindings from them. but thats not the main point, think about this scenario. buying skis and bindings online then mounting it in the comfort of your own home. You dont have to go out for anything. Pre drilled holes can make this happen. All the binding manufacters just gotta put their heads together
post #7 of 21
Your "idea" hasn't been realized yet becasue it doesn't work very well. Take a look at the bottom of a snowboard that been used for a few years. I bet you can tell where the screws are.
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by onstar
all the stores in my city charge 20 bucks to mount when i buy bindings from them. but thats not the main point, think about this scenario. buying skis and bindings online then mounting it in the comfort of your own home. You dont have to go out for anything. Pre drilled holes can make this happen. All the binding manufacters just gotta put their heads together
Bummer for you. I guess going out to look at skis is not really an issue for me - I enjoy visiting ski shops - it's more fun to see skis for real than online - to me anyway!

Most reputable shops (except the "big box" stores) I've EVER visited mount bindings for free - kind of a way to say "thanks" for buying your skis & bindings from them. Pre-drilled holes don't guarantee Joe Hometech won't screw it up. I was a pro tech for 3 years, so I'm comfortable doing my own work. The kid who just bought his first set of skis on his own might not be as confident. Second point -- do you (or the other Joe Hometech's out there) have the equipment to test a binding? Probably not. Having the peace of mind that your bindings work as they should is sometimes worth $20 to some people. I don't really worry about it personally, but some people might. It doesn't take much to blow out a knee while skiing, and $20 pales in comparison to knee surgery.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJP
axe- do you ski volkl, k2 and others with Marker bindings?
Nope. I ski mainly Rossignol & Fischer with Salomon bindings (although Fischer is making it more and more difficult these days - I DON'T like Tyrolia...). I've had a couple pair of Rossi/Look in the past, and one "experience" with Marker.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker
Onstar-

The average person might buy a pair of skis every other year (not all of them are weirdos like some of us here...), and generally, if you buy skis and bindings from a shop, the mounting is free. I think you may need to re-think that idea. The one thing I do see going wrong with average Joe Idiot mounting their own bindings is that they flat-out do it incorrectly, and injure themselves. It happens.

My issue with pre-selected bindings is I prefer to choose waht I want, and for that reason, Fischer AMC's are not going to be in my quiver, as I really don't like Tyrolia products.
Every other year? I think you are way off. I would say the 'average' skier buys skis every 4-5 years, and that might be light.

The manufacturers was to be propriatary with their own bindingss, thats why warrentys are doubled (in some cases) when you buy a same make ski/binding. I know I will get some flaming here, but to me a binding is a binding, they are all good now. I really don't care what binding comes with my ski, (at least a 4-12 DIN).
post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by onstar
im sure they can make all the hole patterns the same. If they only put their heads together.
Yeah, the auto manufacturers could probably all use a 5x114.3mm hub centric bolt pattern for wheels, but they DON'T.

Some other patterns are better/cheaper/just plain typical for different applications.

In reality there is a trend toward as much commonality as possible amongst bindings in one line. Opposing manufacturers are never going to agree on a standard, it would beat the point of selling hostage system skis.

Phil posts pure heresy above. The day I stop caring about what bindings I'm clamping into is the day I move to texas and start callin' my poles jabbers.
post #12 of 21
Oh-no. I must of misread the learn to ski book. I thought it said 4-5 pairs of skis a year. Had a few issues with Markers years ago but other than that they all seem to work fine.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
That's one of the reason that I like the system skis/bindings.
Steve, how do you feel about $1000 plus ski/binding purchase. When you buy Atomics, and trash those skis, what do you do for your next skis, buy another Atomic and move the binding over, or switch brands and buy a new binding. also the same binding may not even fit the same brand year to year. I usually trash (and buy) 2 or 3 pairs of skis a year, these "commitment bindings" add a ton onto the price of the skis.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-turn
Steve, how do you feel about $1000 plus ski/binding purchase. When you buy Atomics, and trash those skis, what do you do for your next skis, buy another Atomic and move the binding over, or switch brands and buy a new binding. also the same binding may not even fit the same brand year to year. I usually trash (and buy) 2 or 3 pairs of skis a year, these "commitment bindings" add a ton onto the price of the skis.
I've always either skied the skis until they are toast (and the bindings are, too) or sold them within a year or two of buying them. So, in other words, this is moot for me.
post #15 of 21
Even pre-drilled holes may not be the ideal solution for the mass market. The average person tends to over-torque/strip out screws and bolts. I know, I have watched a lot of non-mechanical people totally clobber screws/bolts when putting stuff together. It's especially a problem on laminated skis where you have to know when to stop or risk damaging the ski.

And think about the little nuances such as lining up the boot center, setting the boot sole length, setting forward pressure, etc. Yeah, it's trivial for those of us who are mechanically inclined or have done a lot of binding mounts, but judging from some of the "how do I" questions we see posted here, this is not something that should be entrusted to the average ski buyer.

I do like the Tyrolia RailFlex system. Have it on two of my skis now, and it makes a lot of sense. But, you have to also like Tyrolia bindings for that to be the right solution (I do).
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219
And think about the little nuances such as lining up the boot center, setting the boot sole length, setting forward pressure, etc. Yeah, it's trivial for those of us who are mechanically inclined or have done a lot of binding mounts, but judging from some of the "how do I" questions we see posted here, this is not something that should be entrusted to the average ski buyer.
Thanks - this is exactly what I'm getting at.

Phil - I'm talking about the average guy who might haunt these types of forums, and actually does work on their skis. The person buying them 4-5 years apart probably does little to nothing with their gear on their own accord... I'd have a hard time finding anyone I've ever skied with who is still using gear more than a couple years old...
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by onstar
buying skis and bindings online then mounting it in the comfort of your own home. You dont have to go out for anything. Pre drilled holes can make this happen.
But I just mounted Naxo's in the comfort of my own bedroom? was this supposed to be impossible.

Mounting bindings isn't rocket science buddy.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
I've always either skied the skis until they are toast (and the bindings are, too) or sold them within a year or two of buying them. So, in other words, this is moot for me.
How do you manage to wear bindings out in the same time frame as skis?

That is simply unlikely, unless you are doing something very mean to them.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219
but judging from some of the "how do I" questions we see posted here, this is not something that should be entrusted to the average ski buyer
Judging by the number of "the ski shop mismounted my bindings" comments, we shouldn't rely on employed techs for such duties either.

Hard to imagine how something as simple as a pair of skis/bindings could get so fuc%ed up.

Our beloved industry / hobby must be served by the most unintelligent beings in the world.

Thank the lord that skis don't have 16-valve, 240hp / per liter, titanium-valved engines. It'd be really complicated then.:
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by srharv
Thank the lord that skis don't have 16-valve, 240hp / per liter, titanium-valved engines. It'd be really complicated then.:

You ever talk to the guys who change your oil? Not too far from the average ski shop employee.
post #21 of 21
They don't pre-drill skis because it is a liability issue, when the manufacture has a system that sets the amount of pressure it takes to fall out of the binding. As soon as your fixed to the ski like a snowboard then they will predrill and use threaded systems. However while there is a recommend din setting from the manufacture you will always have to go to a certified tech to get them done. Or do them yourself if you don't care about keeping a warranty.
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