EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › What is a PSIA open parallel turn?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What is a PSIA open parallel turn?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Pierre mentioned in DChan's thread on extension exercies that much of the public wants to see a letter perfect PSIA open parallel turn. That got me thinking as to what exactly is an open parallel turn as defined by the PSIA?

Anyone with a pin care to clarify what this means to them? What makes for a good one (i.e. one that would pass an exam)? Is this something the PSIA defines or is it open to instructor/examiner interpretation?

I realized I am not real clear on what exactly that means so I was just guessing.
post #2 of 26
I await the answer with baited breath.

And,,, details,,,, please. Especially of the transition.
post #3 of 26
Man, I miss Bob Barnes...

Classic Those Turns Illustrated thread.
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 
Nice SSH!

I missed that thread in my search. There are lots of references to open parallel but thats the first I have seen it actually laid out.

It appears to Bob Barnes that the difference between open and dynamic is simply a matter of degree. He doesn't actually use the term open parallel. Where does "open" come from?
post #5 of 26
An open parallel turn (or at least the one we "demo" during exams) is a guided skidded round turn. skis parallel with some space between. Speed control is done using turn shape. Skis are kept fairly flat. It's generally not too dynamic. Depending on what you are trying to show, it may include a pole plant. There will probably be an appropriate amount of counter. Both skis should go flat during the transition. Extension and flexion should occur in all the joints (ankles, knees, waist) however as mentioned earlier, it's not too dynamic so extreme angles and range of motion is not really shown.
post #6 of 26
I scored the worst on open parallel in my level II exam (and guess who my examiner was!).
Apparently, they don't want them too dynamic, too much movement up and down, too much edge. These are very basic parallels, not dynamic, only minimal edging...quite flat-footed, and I'm guessing more pivoting rather than edge/carve.
post #7 of 26
onyxjl, I think it's what Bob calls the "Basic Parallel" in that thread. Open has to do with the stance (feet hip width apart). dchan describes it well. The big difference is the terrain (more gentle) and the body dynamics (angles) resulting in edge angles.
post #8 of 26
They're all the same turn as far as movement patterns and ski functioning are concerned. Through skills development and appropriate exposure to more challenge, they become more intense and more precise. Just plain good skiing.
post #9 of 26
The way I look at it, it's the turn you are making when you are leading your intermediate class down the blue slopes. To me the difference between Open Parallel and Dynamic Parallel, is that you CM stays between your feet. Once it crosses inside your turn, you need more edge-angle, etc. and you have passed the realm of Open Parallel.

Ant - Bob Barnes?
post #10 of 26
The open parallel turn is tall, very ellegant turn that holds the edge angles to less than 10 degrees and is what every timid skier enveys to emulate.

The turn mechanics are tall at the end of the turn, release by moving the new outside hip across and towards the tip of the new inside ski with simultaneous edge release, a slight relaxation of the new inside ski with the new inside leg held somewhat vertical from the knee up. Its steered/guided right from the top and you almost fall into the turn to start it. It uses very little energy.

Its also very hard for most people to really perfect because the blending is so sublte. That is why its a required school maneuver for PSIA exams.

I have been told that I do them flawlessly. But, I gotta tell you, they are the most boring skiing I can do. Its a la-tee-da turn you can use when you absolutely don't want to pay attention on greens too anything except the person next to you.

About 40% of all skiers drool over anyone who can do them to high perfection. 20% don't give a damn and the other 40% would much rather ski like Ligety
post #11 of 26
DChan pretty much got it. An open parallel turn puts the emphasis on steering over edging, so the amount of edge developed through the turn is purely terrain/speed specific. The skis should be continuosly steered through the entire turn, with appropriate counter developing. As well, the flexion through the bottom half and the extension through the first half of the turn should be continuos. The extension should produce a flatening of the skis and a directed movement of the upper body/CoM into the next turn. There should be a symetry in our movements and turn shape from side to side, as well as a balanced symetry in our extension and flexion. Appropiate use of the pole swing and touch should happen and blend appropiately.

Really the only thing seperating an open parallel turn from a dynamic parallel turn would be the terrain/speed and the duration, intensity, rate, and timing of our movements. Later, RicB.
post #12 of 26
The major difference between open parallel and dynamic parallel turns is the addition of turn forces and ski rebound that helps to initiate things. In dynamic parallel, you do not have to be as delibrate in your movement patterns as you do in open parallel.
post #13 of 26
What's being explained above.....in video

http://www.vailbcschools.com/BASICPARALLEL.htm
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
The major difference between open parallel and dynamic parallel turns is the addition of turn forces and ski rebound that helps to initiate things. In dynamic parallel, you do not have to be as delibrate in your movement patterns as you do in open parallel.
Deliberatness is determined by whether we are practicing movements in our turns or just skiing isn't it. Though I would say that I always try to ski with a mindfullness and attentiveness that encourages my body mind connection and wakes everything up.

Turn forces and ski rebound are just a result of terrain, speed and our movements. Later, RicB.
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
The turn mechanics are tall at the end of the turn, release by moving the new outside hip across and towards the tip of the new inside ski with simultaneous edge release
i think in the rm division you might get an argument from a few folks if you describe the turn in this manner. my concern is the "by moving the new outside hip across" verbiage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
I have been told that I do them flawlessly.
:
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by makwendo99
What's being explained above.....in video

http://www.vailbcschools.com/BASICPARALLEL.htm
Thanks, makwendo99! Nice collection of videos there!
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
i think in the rm division you might get an argument from a few folks if you describe the turn in this manner. my concern is the "by moving the new outside hip across" verbiage.
Hell I got whacked for not using it.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Hell I got whacked for not using it.
was this before or after your flawless period
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
was this before or after your flawless period
Now Rusty I don't think I ski them flawlessly because I can feel all sorts of stuff going on but the examiners apparently can't see it.

I will tell you that I tend to agree more with you but that won't save the day in front of the examiner I had two weeks ago. I erred on the conservative side here since we are talking exam.

By the way this time I am not taking telemark gear to Colorado. I wanna rip this time.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
onyxjl, I think it's what Bob calls the "Basic Parallel" in that thread. Open has to do with the stance (feet hip width apart). dchan describes it well. The big difference is the terrain (more gentle) and the body dynamics (angles) resulting in edge angles.
Agree, mostly, but I think the historical hip width was an external body width dimension (at hips) which is about 1 ski wider than hip socket width that is considered a more functional biomechanical baseline in today's skiing.
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
By the way this time I am not taking telemark gear to Colorado. I wanna rip this time.
by all means come by the WP ski school. we'll showcase those flawless open parallel turns and perhaps you can give us a few pointers in the bumps at mary jane.
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcmeister
Agree, mostly, but I think the historical hip width was an external body width dimension (at hips) which is about 1 ski wider than hip socket width that is considered a more functional biomechanical baseline in today's skiing.
Thanks, Arc, I have to be more careful. I meant hip-socket width, but wrote hip-width. Oops!
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Thanks, Arc, I have to be more careful. I meant hip-socket width, but wrote hip-width. Oops!

Does this mean you have to expand your sig line?
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
was this before or after your flawless period
What is all this Rusty? Did I spill some Kool Aid? Am I off dah reservation?

I have abandoned nothing, only added. Just like I can still ski every inefficient movenent that I ever did. I have added efficient movements to go along with the inefficient ones I still own.
post #25 of 26
i just was a little surprised to hear anyone refer to any part of their skiing as flawless.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy
i just was a little surprised to hear anyone refer to any part of their skiing as flawless.
Not my words. I sure as hell don't think my skiing is flawless. My thoughts when I here that are "What the hell are you looking at?"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › What is a PSIA open parallel turn?