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Shin Pressure

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
In the 2nd half of a turn (turn apex until edge switch) do you pressure the shins of your legs against both boots equally? Or, do you pressure against the front of one boot more than the the other - outside shin or inside shin?
post #2 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by whygimf
In the 2nd half of a turn (turn apex until edge switch) do you pressure the shins of your legs against both boots equally? Or, do you pressure against the front of one boot more than the the other - outside shin or inside shin?
in the second half of the turn, i apply very-little-to-no shin pressure.
my shin pressure becomes progressively lessened through the turn, and the pressure on the back of my highback increases.
the pressure, in both feet, is equal.
post #3 of 22
You're throwing me for a loop again Vlad. Change the image of Vlad's skiing again.
post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
in the second half of the turn, i apply very-little-to-no shin pressure.
my shin pressure becomes progressively lessened through the turn, and the pressure on the back of my highback increases.
the pressure, in both feet, is equal.
Alright Vlad, I'll bite. Really? You ski as you describe? Let's see, yellow Nordicas?
post #5 of 22
I ski this way too. Green Nordicas
post #6 of 22
pressure on back of highback... I think he is back on the snowboard... although he says they are the same...
post #7 of 22
Does Ted Ligety's shin pressure alter in the bottom half of the turn? Does it look the same just prior to release as it did just after engagement?
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Does Ted Ligety's shin pressure alter in the bottom half of the turn? Does it look the same just prior to release as it did just after engagement?
Rick, as s a highly skilled skier yourself, where is your shin pressure in the 2nd half?
post #9 of 22
Whygimf, I generally like to strive for efficiency, and economy of movement and effort when I free ski.

Typically when free skiing I strive to maintain a stance that incorporates efficient, through the foot balance. By that I mean that I try to remain fore/aft neutral, not leveraging against the front or back of the boot cuff. As soon as one starts to leverage against the boot they make that portion of their boot part of their balance platform, which serves to degrade foot feel and balance, and requires greater recruitment of muscle involvement to remain dynamically balanced.

Simultaneously, I focus on maintaining rotational alignment during the turn (feet, hips, shoulders on the same rotational plane), which lends to maintaining similar fore/aft balance neutrality in both feet. When I make my release move at the end of the turn, pressure transfers to my old inside foot/ski, and my CM is set in motion across my skis. My rotational alignment allows the pressure to immediately transfer to a fore/aft neutral state of balance on my old inside foot/ski.

The new sidecuts allow the skis to be operated very effectively in this consistent fore/aft neutral manner. Generally, when free skiing, modifying edge angle is all that's needed, and all I use, to produce the desired turn shape. Seldom do I find a need to supplement my turns with fore/aft balance alterations, and suffer the resultant balance inefficiencies.

When I do feel a call to do so, it's normally from a desire/need to crank up the intensity of the top of my turn, and I accomplish it with a fore balance shift that leverages the front of my boot. It hyper engages the front of my ski at the top of the turn, and thereby sharpen that portion of my turn. I can hold fore position throughout the entirety of the turn, if needed, or I can return to fore/aft neutral later in the turn if my turn shape mission has been accomplished.

Other times, I'll move to an aft balance state through the bottom portion of a turn. This can provide a stronger forward energy release, when speed is an issue (see Ligety and Bode), and it can also contribute to a quicker cross under transition when quickness is an issue.

Sometimes too I'll alter my fore/aft balance platform in various ways, not out of need, but just to keep sharp my abilities to perform outside of ideal/efficient states.
post #10 of 22
Rick that is the answer I was hoping you would type.
post #11 of 22
Nice info, Rick.
post #12 of 22
I agree wiht Rick, but, (oh boy here I go), I think there needs to be a distinction between intentionaly pressuring the front of the boot and some pressure developing on the front of the boot because of flexing of the ankle through the bottom of the turn. I think it is always good to think in terms of being neutral, but if we are moving our joints appropriately and continuoly, then we will be feeling pressure move around on the the boot cuff. Both lateraly, and forward. OK Vlad, even to the rear. Though I would venture that most of us don't have any problem spending time feeling the back of the boot.

Where and when you feel presure move and/or develope on the boot cuff is very good tactile feedback for how we are moving. If you never feel the front of your boot cuff then you are not flexing your ankle through the turn. This is totaly different than reefing on the front of the boot though. Just like if you never feel pressure develope on the sides of the boot cuff, you probably are not tipping the feet enough. Later, RicB.
post #13 of 22
If your hips are over your feet, you should be applying some pressure to the boot cuff or your boots probably have way too much forward lean.
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
Nice info, Rick.
Ok but what about pressuring the boot/shin. Is Rick saying he does not pressure the shin? I agree with what he is saying but he did not seem to answer the question.

Do you not initiate the turn with some pressure against the shin. When skiing the fall line with tight turns or in the bumps or even in powder - some pressure on the shin. I do and I don't worry about how much one vs the other shin might have.

Rick's points are solid.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeskinow
Ok but what about pressuring the boot/shin. Is Rick saying he does not pressure the shin? I agree with what he is saying but he did not seem to answer the question.

Do you not initiate the turn with some pressure against the shin. When skiing the fall line with tight turns or in the bumps or even in powder - some pressure on the shin. I do and I don't worry about how much one vs the other shin might have.

Rick's points are solid.
I think Rick did answer the question. The answer is that shin pressure depends on the desired outcome. It depends on intent. Pressure can be anywhwere from zip to full on leverage depending on the desired outcome. That is exactly the answer that he should have given.

In recreational skiing I see very little cause for much shin pressure but in racing gates there are times when I would want a lot of shin pressure to maintain line and speed. Another example, If I am ripping alpine turns on tele I certainly don't have a lot of shin pressure on the fronts of my boots.
post #16 of 22

Reading comprehension issues

All right, Rick did answer to the topic. But to keep it simple, even on flats - quick turns - you pressure the shin. Maybe you just hit it an back off quickly but most turns look for that pressure in varying *s.

These are questions as much as answers. I have found pressure to the boot to be a critical aspect of my skiing. On steeps, in the bumps and in powder it seems easier to draw the boots back and then be in position to initiate the turn.

When I let the skis run as in GS turns, I can just use the ski to turn, then pressure the shin to be more agressive in the turn. GS turns are my weakest skiing talent.

The right amount of shin pressure is critical because it is easy to wind up fighting with the boot. Proper stance (and I do not mean distance the feet are apart) is a big part of shin pressure and turn initiation. IMHO.
post #17 of 22
I think there's WAY too much emphasis on this 'pressure the shin' thing. Every student I have has been told to "lean" against the fronts of the boots. grrr.
I can't feel my shins, after a shin splints op in the 80s. So i have no idea what's happening there. but a favourite exercise for ski instructors in Oz is to undo ALL the boot buckles and the power strap, and ski like that down normal runs. I sometimes undo the cuff buckles in recidivist advanced students here (quietly).

Shin pressure is a useful tool but I really feel that to hammer the "pressure the shin" thing is to circumvent balance.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
I think there's WAY too much emphasis on this 'pressure the shin' thing. Every student I have has been told to "lean" against the fronts of the boots. grrr.


Shin pressure is a useful tool but I really feel that to hammer the "pressure the shin" thing is to circumvent balance.
"Leaning" is not good.

to "hammer" is not good.

But great skiers do apply shin pressure in a very controlled way, sould you not agree. It's a huge part of turning the ski.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Whygimf, I generally like to strive for efficiency, and economy of movement and effort when I free ski.

Typically when free skiing I strive to maintain a stance that incorporates efficient, through the foot balance.
So, in general, you describe your skiing as passive - in terms of movement through the turn. Centered and static?
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by whygimf
So, in general, you describe your skiing as passive - in terms of movement through the turn. Centered and static?
roflmao

and i have never seen rick ski
post #21 of 22
People who depend on the boot cuffs have a problem. Skiing starts with the soles of the feet, and goes up from there. As I said before, pressure on the fronts is a useful tool, to be used when needed, but not all the time; in fact, sparingly. Undo your boots, and discover that you can still ski.
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
People who depend on the boot cuffs have a problem. Skiing starts with the soles of the feet, and goes up from there. As I said before, pressure on the fronts is a useful tool, to be used when needed, but not all the time; in fact, sparingly. Undo your boots, and discover that you can still ski.
Boot cuffs: When you carve, don't you presssure the boot cuff laterally. When you lay the ski on edge, does that not require pressure against the cuff - to initiate the turn?

When you crank a turn at speed in, say, a GS turn don't you put pressure against the shin to bring it around more agressively?

I also believe that it starts from the soles of the feet. But it seems to me that controlling shin pressure is an important part of good skiing.
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