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Is Hitting the Snow...

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
...Sticking the landing?

Or is it just hitting the snow?

I don't get it. I'm seeing vid's now of skiers hucking themselves off cliffs and doing the lawn dart thing. Sometimes they get up after a few and ski away, sometimes they get dug out. But I just watched a video in which a skier went off this and that and the other things - all impressive leaps, huge air, I'd never do it - but NOT A SINGLE LANDING WAS STUCK.

Way to go as far as knowing the snowpack and all but isn't there something to be said for actually landing in ski-away-now mode, making the deal seamless? Or is the new thing all about simply hitting the snow and making bomb holes?

Is it all amplitude, screw the style?

I'm a gaper, just trying to keep up as school gets newer.
post #2 of 25
I've always questioned how much "skiing skill" is involved in the "cliff jumping" crowd myself. I feel that if you can't land it and turn at least twice before getting a face-full of snow then you didn't ski, you fell. I put a qualification of two turns in because the first "turn" could conceivably happen if you were just wildly out of balance on the landing and somehow you accidentally "turned". Two turns means you were in balance to enough of a degree to pull at least one turn off on your own.
post #3 of 25
I agree. But I wouldn't even be as hard about it as Kevin and his 2 turn rule. I'm okay with being on yur feet and sliding a couple of ski lengths, whether in a straight run or turns. Heck, even if you popped out and slidon your feet for 10 feet then fell over sideways, I'd be willing to consider it close to stuck than if you cratered.

There was HUGE discussion about this when some idjit (the guy has a wife and kid) did a "world record cliff jump", but lawn darted himself headfirst from something like 260 feet (?). The younger people here were impressed, but most people just considered it BASE jumping wituout a parachute.
post #4 of 25
I refuse to resurect the Jaime Pierre thread. Blanch.
post #5 of 25
It's often not possible to land on one's feet from huge drops without injury. You'll get knees in the face, or knees in the chest. I think the closest thing to sticking it in the backcountry is landing on your back to distribute the forces and maintain flotation and then skiing away.

If the drop's big enough it's pretty tough to avoid making a bomb hole
post #6 of 25
Making a hole isn't the point, skiing away is. Easy to make a hole. Harder to ski away. If the point is to make a big hole---why worry about having skis on to begin with?
post #7 of 25
I just returned from Crested Butte, where I had the opportunity to watch the Extreme Freeskiing Championships. The venue they chose for the finals had some truly sick and twisted lines. The skiing was phenomenal and as far as the judges and competitors were concerned, you had to ski away from the cliff jump for it to count. Most of them skied away without a problem!

If you ever have the chance to see the Freeskiing Championships, don't skip it. Watching it on video or TV does NOT do it justice. :

Thatsagirl
post #8 of 25
My takeaway from the Jamie Pierre thread
(aside from no more )


was that we're really talking about two different sports here:

1. Cliff hucking-skiing

2. Skiing (of many other types)


Cliff hucking crowd thinks their sport is legit and that it doesn't need to involve skiing away from a leap. Cool, I guess, if there's a critical mass of interest in it. But that doesn't mean it's really the same beast as what many of the rest of us think of as skiing. It's either some sub-set (like "new school" or "freestyle") or it's something all its own.

Maybe it just needs a name. . .

Gravity skiing?
Terminal Velocity Freeride?

There's a hilarious thread over at TGR today, started by somebody who says Pierre's record huck is going down. . . Yikes! : (EDIT: Although said thread seems to have been recently made less, er, palatable for mixed company. You are warned. Used to have a lot of physics debating in it.)

I'm thinking Darwin awards, but what do I know? The hucker in question would probably think I'm *old* and somebody's mom. Which I am, I guess . . . but I'm a HOT mom, damn it! : And I jump off stuff on my skis, too. Just not if it's more than 10 feet high these days!

Mollmeister
post #9 of 25
In my book, you gotta stick it and ride away. Same for dirt and snow jumps on a moto, bicycle, snomobile, etc.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
...Sticking the landing?

Or is it just hitting the snow?

I don't get it. I'm seeing vid's now of skiers hucking themselves off cliffs and doing the lawn dart thing. Sometimes they get up after a few and ski away, sometimes they get dug out. But I just watched a video in which a skier went off this and that and the other things - all impressive leaps, huge air, I'd never do it - but NOT A SINGLE LANDING WAS STUCK.

Way to go as far as knowing the snowpack and all but isn't there something to be said for actually landing in ski-away-now mode, making the deal seamless? Or is the new thing all about simply hitting the snow and making bomb holes?

Is it all amplitude, screw the style?

I'm a gaper, just trying to keep up as school gets newer.
Jamie Pierre says all you have to do is survive it to claim you stuck it.

but he also says that Jesus saved him from dying. he calls luck "Jesus," for reasons that escape logic.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven
In my book, you gotta stick it and ride away. Same for dirt and snow jumps on a moto, bicycle, snomobile, etc.
shee cheh.

must be part of the flow. if the flow stops, you didn't do anything but live. you didn't "stick" the landing. hell, you barely landed.
post #12 of 25
How much talent does it take to get gravity to work?
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49
How much talent does it take to get gravity to work?
ROFL - that's a classic reply.
post #14 of 25
I jumped off a fourth floor balcony into a snow bank when I was 10. Does that count? O.k. I didn't have skis on, but if your not skiing away what's the diff?

IMO it's not skiing if your not skiing before and after the jump; it's cliff jumping.
post #15 of 25
I think it's fair to consider it stuck if you emerge from the snow on skis, e.g. you make a bomb hole on your back/side then pop out and ski away. You can't land on your skis from over a certain height, it's not physically possible, so does that mean people shouldn't jump from higher than that height? I think not, it's entertaining to watch on film and they seem to enjoy it. To me, the most impressive airs ar those by Seth Morrison and Hugo Harrison in MSP films (especially Seth in Focused and SM3), he sticks big airs 50-80 feet especially the one backflip in focused, he often does land directly on his feet without losing any speed, this is in the middle of a line too, wild stuff. Same for Harrison, really powerful.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidnails
It's often not possible to land on one's feet from huge drops without injury. You'll get knees in the face, or knees in the chest. I think the closest thing to sticking it in the backcountry is landing on your back to distribute the forces and maintain flotation and then skiing away.

If the drop's big enough it's pretty tough to avoid making a bomb hole
Thanks for the refreshingly accurate understanding of whats going on.

How much skill does it take? to Rotate to hit the snow at the right angle, to not flail in the air, to land in a manner that protects body parts?

If its easy, then why don't you do it?





you don't think that takes skill(props tyrone), Matched to slope angle? Compact Body Position? Keeping your shit together while dropping 70feet?

As far as Jamie Hucking is concerned... the dude can ski. He also jumps big cliffs. I'm not a god fearing man myself, but what he's done is ballsy and I give him props for that. If you've followed him you'd know that he realizes he's getting old for that, but you know what... its what pays the bills. There are countless people who can ski well enough to make the movies and be spancered, but not many can do what Jamie does. Thats what makes him special. Regardless of whether you like or hate him, he's good at what he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnH
There was HUGE discussion about this when some idjit (the guy has a wife and kid) did a "world record cliff jump", but lawn darted himself headfirst from something like 260 feet (?). The younger people here were impressed, but most people just considered it BASE jumping wituout a parachute.
He didn't lawn dart it, impossible actually because he threw a grab in there. Hitting the snow with as much velocity as he did, in the soft conditions will bury anyone. He rotated back a little to far (absorbing impact) which is understandable considering how many SECONDS he was free falling for.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
...Sticking the landing?

Or is it just hitting the snow?

I don't get it. I'm seeing vid's now of skiers hucking themselves off cliffs and doing the lawn dart thing. Sometimes they get up after a few and ski away, sometimes they get dug out. But I just watched a video in which a skier went off this and that and the other things - all impressive leaps, huge air, I'd never do it - but NOT A SINGLE LANDING WAS STUCK.

Way to go as far as knowing the snowpack and all but isn't there something to be said for actually landing in ski-away-now mode, making the deal seamless? Or is the new thing all about simply hitting the snow and making bomb holes?

Is it all amplitude, screw the style?

I'm a gaper, just trying to keep up as school gets newer.
I'm an Olympic platform diver. I do the same thing. I just jump off the platform and sommersault and twist as many times as I can. Then I land in a huge bellyflop in the middle of the water. Same kind of thing, except the stuff I land in isn't soft an fluffy, and I don't have the benefit of protective gear.

Get my drift? What's the point? Any fool can huck themselves off a cliff with 20 feet of soft powder under them.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
I agree. But I wouldn't even be as hard about it as Kevin and his 2 turn rule. I'm okay with being on yur feet and sliding a couple of ski lengths, whether in a straight run or turns. Heck, even if you popped out and slidon your feet for 10 feet then fell over sideways, I'd be willing to consider it close to stuck than if you cratered.

There was HUGE discussion about this when some idjit (the guy has a wife and kid) did a "world record cliff jump", but lawn darted himself headfirst from something like 260 feet (?). The younger people here were impressed, but most people just considered it BASE jumping wituout a parachute.
Completely crazy! That guy had a three month old baby at home too. At some point, especially after having kids, you've got to start using you head....and not for lawn darting into a pile of fluff! If his wife is smart, she'll dump him and find a guy with a little more grey matter, and who wants to be around for the kid. If not, she's probably just as stupid as he, and she deserves him. Poor kid though.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidnails
It's often not possible to land on one's feet from huge drops without injury. You'll get knees in the face, or knees in the chest. I think the closest thing to sticking it in the backcountry is landing on your back to distribute the forces and maintain flotation and then skiing away.

If the drop's big enough it's pretty tough to avoid making a bomb hole
The freestyle team seemed to be doing ok landing on hard pack from 55 feet.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven
In my book, you gotta stick it and ride away. Same for dirt and snow jumps on a moto, bicycle, snomobile, etc.
If sticking the landing didn't count, Sasha Cohen would have two Gold medals.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docjoque
I'm an Olympic platform diver. I do the same thing. I just jump off the platform and sommersault and twist as many times as I can. Then I land in a huge bellyflop in the middle of the water. Same kind of thing, except the stuff I land in isn't soft an fluffy, and I don't have the benefit of protective gear.

Get my drift? What's the point? Any fool can huck themselves off a cliff with 20 feet of soft powder under them.

Completely crazy! That guy had a three month old baby at home too. At some point, especially after having kids, you've got to start using you head....and not for lawn darting into a pile of fluff! If his wife is smart, she'll dump him and find a guy with a little more grey matter, and who wants to be around for the kid. If not, she's probably just as stupid as he, and she deserves him. Poor kid though.

The freestyle team seemed to be doing ok landing on hard pack from 55 feet.

If sticking the landing didn't count, Sasha Cohen would have two Gold medals.
You're an idiot

bellyflopping hurts more, why would you do it?

Free style "hardpack aka tilled snow" landings are on a steep slope and 55 really isn't big enough to warrant slapping back.

Sticking a landing in figure skating and diving is part of the game. Aesthetic sports, so hot right now.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJP
You're an idiot

bellyflopping hurts more, why would you do it?

Free style "hardpack aka tilled snow" landings are on a steep slope and 55 really isn't big enough to warrant slapping back.

Sticking a landing in figure skating and diving is part of the game. Aesthetic sports, so hot right now.
Thanks for the name calling buddy. Very gentlemanly of you. I'll ignore it and try to spell it out for you.

Yes, belly flopping hurts more. That was posted in jest, trying to illustrate that it takes NO talent to jump off something and let gravity do what gravity has done for millions of years. You may disagree. Maybe you should petition the IOC since you seem so passionate about it. Hey, I think it would be fun to see someone win a Gold medal for their excellence in "Splatting."
post #23 of 25
The problem with everyone who doesn't know all the details accusing him of endangering his family is that he has done this for a long time, many really big jumps, without injuries. Lots of other skiers have done similar things. The only death I've heard of was that guy in NZ (I think?) in the 90's sometime. These guys can ski, better than me or you, and also enjoy taking big air, why is it stupid and dangerous if they take calculated risks?
post #24 of 25
Well, there's two ultimate goals here: a) the rush of doing something dangerous and b) entertainment for those watching.

I can't (nor you) speak for what thrills someone else. If you like throwing yourself off a cliff and making a crater, then so be it.

I can speak toward being entertained by people hitting an 80ft jump or doing a backflip off a 50ft cliff. I really don't care if someone lands it - I'll watch all day long. If you land it, great. If you don't, I'll probably be more entertained (until you don't get up, at which point I'll be sad.) Apparently I'll even donate $$ toward buying you a new wheelchair if you end up paralyzed.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramboh
The only death I've heard of was that guy in NZ (I think?) in the 90's sometime.
Paul Ruff, at Kirkwood in 1993. Died trying a 160-foot cliff jump after surviving a world-record 110-footer in 1990.
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