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Help - XX's v Axis XP v Intuitiv 74 v anything else you can think of?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

I'm an Aussie skiier who is lucky enough to be spending 4 months in Utah 2002/2003. I therefore want some midfats (I think my old school 1080s may not be up to the task)

I'm looking for a ski which floats pretty well but can still hold a good edge which I could use on Australian hardpack/ice, and I've isolated the 3 above as the skis I am looking at most seriously. I'm not interested in Salomon, as I want a turntable heel binding if possible. Otherwise I might go for the new 1080s.

But, can you tell me what your thoughts on which of the Bandit XX, the Axis XP or the Intuitiv 74 would be best for my needs?

Alternatively, any other suggestions?

Your help would be much appreciated.

Cheers.
post #2 of 25
On hardpack the Rossignol Bandit XX's will be the better skis, and they're great off piste as well. I loved them both on harder snow and on all sorts of natural snow, from untracked powder to chopped crud. It was a surprise to me, but in the correct size, they're really lively and quick edge to edge. I have mine mounted with the Rossi turntable heel, so I not only have the benefit of the turntable, but I also extend my warranty by a year putting the Rossi bindings on the Rossi skis.

If you're a less interested in edge to edge quickness and prefer more power and deep snow performance, I guess the K2 would be a good try. I understand it's a great ski, but NOT nearly as much fun edge to edge as the XX

I did not really like the Intuitiv 74 that much. However, if I wanted a hard snow ski that also handles natural snow very well, I'd love the smoothness, solidness, easy short and long turning and forgiveness of the Intuitiv 71. Size for size, though, it's not as quick edge to edge as the Bandit XX.

By far and away, the Bandit XX is THE most versatile, and fun! However, getting the right length is paramount. I weigh about 150, I'm a mediocre skier, and I'm delighted on the XX in 170 and I HATED it in 177. That may or may not help guide you.

If you can try before you buy, you'll be much better off, but in any case, none of these are BAD skis, they just do things differently. I depends what kind of performance you like better.

[ September 14, 2002, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: oboe ]
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
that's an awesome reply. SO comprehensive! Thank you. I was heading in that direction myself, actually. The XP seems a little too damp for what I wanted and the Dynastar hasn't got a great rap from many peopl.

Leaving the XX. I've skiied the X's and was quite happy, but I wanted a little more surface area under the foot. Length will be a problem, but I will do some extensive demo-ing before I decide. I'm 195 cm and 190 pounds, so I think the 184 is the length I'd want, but I'll give them all a shot.

Thank you.
post #4 of 25
I tend to think that the 184 will probably be your best bet.
post #5 of 25
Bregkamp, Where will you be in Utah? Will you be working at a resort here?or is this a long Holiday for you?
There is another ski you should look into well 2 skis The Fisher Big Stick 74 and also the Big Stick 84. I demoed the 84 last season and it was my top pick for a wided mid fat ski. The 74 This year it is a 75mm waist has about the same side cut as the Bandit XX However it is a wood core. For some that really doesn't matter. I just happen to like a wood core ski. Fischer is known for it's near death grip edge hold so you shouldn't have any problem with them on hard pack and Ice. Another ski not as livily as the fischer 84 but well worth a look is my 2nd choice in a wide midfat is the Atomic R:ex. It's a wide GS ski, if you like speed and you would rather kill crud then dance around it then The R:ex would do fine for you. Another ski that I have been on for 2 seasons now and is still IMHO one of the best all around skis is the K2 Axis X It's great for 80% of the everyday skiing you will be doing in Utah. The K2 Axis X is great in bumps, can handle the steeps and lays down a nice line on groomed runs. It's good in Boot High powder and is stable in crud. A Neighbor demoed the K2 AK Enemy twin tip late last season. He just bought a pair this weekend. His comments were that it was a good front side ski and a awesome ski for places like snowbasin,Alta,or Snowbird. I'm not sure i would want something that wide for my one and only ski But in a quiver it could be a good choice.
Well I think I have successfully done my job of adding to your confusion. Heck just go to the ski shop bindfold yourself throw a dart whatever ski you hit buy it [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #6 of 25
The 'best' ski is probably one that complements your style.

I love a ski that I can go fast on, holds an edge - essentially feels like a GS ski. For me volkl G31 and G4's do it. For you a different set of criteria might apply.

The nice thing about the G4's is that they can really be used on the front side as well as the back side of the mountain.
post #7 of 25
Bergkamp,

I liked the Bandit XX as well but I know people who think it's nothing special. Everyone has different tastes and opinions, demo before you buy if possible.

Other ski's that are similar and get good reviews are -

Atomic 10.20
Volkl G3
Head Monster iM75

More info can be found if you use the search function (at the top of the page) on the "Consumer Gear Reviews" section.

DB

[ September 15, 2002, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: DangerousBrian ]
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Utah 49 - I only wish I could afford a 4 month Utah holiday. No, I'm working at Stein Eriksen lodge, which should be fun. Well, good tips anyway. So I''ll be skiing Deer Valley, Park City and Canyons mostly, I guess, but I want to get over to Snowbird/Alta as much as possible.

So many options!!! Thanks all for your replies. I am still confused, but I guess that is the nature of the beast. Way too many skis, not enough money to demo them. I refuse to buy skis without demoing first, but I will keep all of these in mind for when I get over there. Still thinking XXs tho.

Keep em coming .
post #9 of 25
Bergkamp, if you're still thinking of the XX's, you're thinkin' right!
post #10 of 25
Your best bet:
DEMO! There's plenty of places to demo from in Utah. Not utilizing what is essentially a "try before you buy" is a straight-up bonehead move. Why nobody has mentioned demoing yet in this thread is downright scary. :

No matter what anyone says on the internet, only you know what's right for you. Talk to someone in a shop, they should be able to help you figure out what length is right for you based on height, weight, and ability (assuming you're honest with yourself). They will probably present several options for you and you can decide from there.

One more thing, it'll probably be cheaper for you to purchase some planks in the U.S. than Australia.

As far as durability & stiffness, here's how they'll rank:
1) Stockli Stormriders
2) Dynastar Intuitiv 74's
3) Rossignol Bandit XX's
4) K2 Axis XP's
post #11 of 25
Demoing has been mentioned before, above, and almost all on this site do recommend it. Some people do not have the time, the money or the opportunity to demo, and for those people, some recommendations and descriptions might help. Even for those who demo, such descriptions and recommendations can help a lot to choose the skis for demoing.

Agreed, totally, that it's the final impression of the individual skier that counts. As a mediocre and lightweight skier, I never would have been interested in the Bandit XX for myself, merely because of all I'd read about it. Then when I tried it in 177, it lent truth to all of those descriptions I'd read. Only becasue of the techie's insistance did I try the ski in 170 - and we fell in love and got married.

As for the ranking of stiffness and durability, except that the Stockli is probably - PROBABLY - stiffer, I would like to know the objective basis, if any, for that ranking of stiffness and durability, and anecdotal stuff doesn't count. I would imagine that the K2 mentioned would be stiffer than the Rossi mentioned, but I've only skied the Rossi. I did ski the Dynastar and didn't like it, but I might have if a shorter length had been available. So, again, what is the objective basis for the ranking?

[ September 15, 2002, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: oboe ]
post #12 of 25
Volant, Machete Soul is another one for the list, sweet graphics.

http://www.skimag.com/skimag/buyers_...ski155,00.html

Please let us know when you are nearer a decision then we can give you somemore confusing information.

Like I said before Demo if you can.

DB
post #13 of 25
Hey Bergkamp why didn't you use you other name?
post #14 of 25
BergKamp,

I recommend an all in one ski suit Descente or Bognor are best otherwise you might find it a bit chilly just skiing in Mittens, Teddy Bear Socks and a Jockstrap.

Remember, look good out there.

DB
post #15 of 25
BergKamp -

The Salomon 1080 will take Rossignol & Look bindings. They only advantage to using Salomon bindings on them is for extending your warrantee.
post #16 of 25
In Vermont there are some demo shops that will put whatever you spend demoing skis towards the purchase of new skis. For instance, my buddy tried 3-4 pairs of various shapes before settling on some G3s, he spend about $125 to demo but got $125 on the purchase. If there are any Utah shops with a similar program, or managers who can be talked into offering such a deal, that would be the place to start looking. Maybe there are some Utahns in the house who can inform you of same.
post #17 of 25
Cunning, most shops here in Utah will do that. Some may say you can only appy one or two days demo fees toward new skis. Most shops in Park City are pricey,but have excellent staff and service. Best tune up are Arcs, Jan's then Coles.
Both Jan's and Coles have shops right in Deer Valley so it is easy to do demos there. Best place to get a deal is Utah Ski and golf. I just thought of something Stien Ericksen has a ski shop right in the Stien Ericksen lodge They may have a discount for staff at the Lodge, It's worth asking. I think they sell Atomic and Salomon.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
HAHAHAHA. Seth, you spotted me. Sorry, can't use the same name on all forums.

Boo-yaa, If you look 2 posts above yours, you'll notice that I say that I'd never buy skis without demoing them.

To the person whose name I can't remember, I will certainly be buying in the US, not Aus. A friend is working at Heavenly and gets FIFTY PERCENT off retail. So I'm gonna get him to ship some stuff over once i decide. But I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars demoing, so I am gonna limit myself to 3 or 4. Which is why I was asking for ideas in this thread. So, thanks to the more non productive responses.

But currently, it's looking like:

1 - Bandit XX
2 - Axis XP
3 - Volant Machete (Had forgotten about these, they are Shane McConkey's weapon of choice I believe?) but the graphics shit me, and I know it's all about looking good
4 - Dynastars
5 - Seth pistols (ok this is just for fun)

[ September 16, 2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Bergkamp ]
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by BooYAH:
.... Not utilizing what is essentially a "try before you buy" is a straight-up bonehead move. Why nobody has mentioned demoing yet in this thread is downright scary.

No matter what anyone says on the internet, only you know what's right for you. Talk to someone in a shop, they should be able to help you figure out...
I partially, respectfully Disagree. Scary? Not really. Demoing IS the best way to go, but it all depends on your budget. If you're looking for 1 good tool, then you really do need to demo. But if you're just adding another arrow to your quiver, and you stumble upon something for 200 bucks that fills in a gap and fits the kind of footprint you're looking for, buy them. Ski on them for a season, and if you don't like sell them on eBay for 150 bucks.

Demoing, while fun, can get expensive. It is important, but not as much so as it was 5 years ago, unless you haven't the slightest clue what you're looking for.

Ask a shop guy? Sometimes you're better off asking here. You guys who live in ski country are spoiled. All the shop rats there generally know their equipment. Try talking to some of the "sales people" in some of the shops here on Long Island.

There are some knowledgeable guys, but you could spend years trying to find out who they are, if you're not experienced. A lot of them haven't got a clue, so sometimes you are better off just coming here to Epic for ideas.

And most of like to talk about our skis more than we do about our own kids anyhow, so don't try and shut us up about it!
post #20 of 25
Bergkamp,

I keep adding to conversations about the XX and other likeminded skis: Fischer Big Stix 74. I think this year it is the Big Stix 75. Lighter than the XX yet stiffer. This is due to carbon fiber.
Great grip on hard snow/ice. Maybe less good than the XX in bumps cuz it is not as soft. Good float and great for crud.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by oboe:
As for the ranking of stiffness and durability, except that the Stockli is probably - PROBABLY - stiffer, I would like to know the objective basis, if any, for that ranking of stiffness and durability, and anecdotal stuff doesn't count. I would imagine that the K2 mentioned would be stiffer than the Rossi mentioned, but I've only skied the Rossi. I did ski the Dynastar and didn't like it, but I might have if a shorter length had been available. So, again, what is the objective basis for the ranking?
oboe,

You've got a point, but an objective basis is hard to attain through all the marketing hype and the biased reviews from individual skiiers.

But I'll tell you this -- it seems to me that there is a strong correlation between the type of core material and the durability. Does a strong correlation mean objectivity is attained? No.

But, as near as I can tell, wood core skis are far more durable than foam core, no matter what they're laminated with, or what fancy-schmancy composite the core is wrapped in.

Knowing the following about core materials:
- Metal can bend or snap
- Wood can snap
- Foam can snap or explode

I've yet to hear of a bent/snapped Stormrider.

I've heard of a few cases of broken Intuitivs.

I've heard/seen plenty about XX's exploding.

I've seen too many delammed K2's and several bent in freakishly wimpy conditions. I also can't help but wonder why their warranty dept. never seems to run out of replacement stock.

I'm just going by common sense and empirical observation. Call me crazy, but I like wood core skis even though I own a pair of 184 XX's. :
post #22 of 25
One of my buddies bent his Stormriders last season. He had bought them in Oz, and the reps in the US would not do anything to help him, even though he his a double season, full time full cert pro. This is the problem with little co. like Stockli. They probably just did not have aski to warrenty with.

I have skied pretty much everything being thrown around here. The XX, is a super versatile fun ride, as it it's big bro the RPM 21. However, I personally find these skis to be a little damp and not a zippy and fun as my favorite skis. They are very solid, no surprizes kind of skis. I personally prefer a livelier, less damp ride. I own K2 Axis X. Axis X Pros, Enemies, Ak Enemies, and AK Launchers. I have also skied a few days on the Axis XP. My favorite; the Enemy. This ski lists at under $400, does just about everything well. It lacks the dampening of the Axis series, but until you are maching on ice, who cares?

The fact is everybody makes great skis, and very similar quality levels. The biggest difference in similar skis from different companies is graphics, and feel. No, I don't really like the damp dualtec feel of the Rossi freeride skis, but so what, they are great skis, and if I skied on Rossis as much as I ski on K2s, I would get used to the feel, and love them. Just get a ski with a waist in the 70-80mm range, it will do everything well. No, it won't be as quick as as a shorty slalom, or platform like a true fat, but it will ski everything pretty well.
post #23 of 25
What helispin said, more or less, except for one thing: In eleven seasons I've owned eleven pairs of skis. I find that my Rossignol Bandit XX's are one of the liveliest, if not THE liveliest pair of skis I've ever owned - and I've owned K2, Atomic, Volkl, Head, Salomon and, of course, Rossignol. The point is, why badmouth skis unless there's a documented problem and no warranty back-up? And as to those Stocklis, that's ONE incident, not a documented problem.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
he spend about $125 to demo but got $125 on the purchase. [/QB]
Wow, I was wondering why oboe said people don't have the money to demo. Skiing at Aspen/Snowmass last year I didn't want to trash my skis on the less than covered slopes, so I "demoed" the K2 Axis Pro and Bandit X's. I think it cost me about $47 with damage insurance for a day. At Mammoth after breaking some Xscreams I demoed a pair a day for about $45 per day.

And yes, all the shops would apply my demo fee to a purchase if I wanted. Sounds like you are getting ripped off in Vermont.
post #25 of 25
Check all clauses, my friend- I said that he tried 3-4 different shapes, and spent about $125 doing it. That's 3-4 days of demoing for $125, which he ended up getting back on his eventual purchase. Whoops for you.
The sad thing is that every aspect of the sport has gotten so costly, a $125 demo isn't entirely outside the realm of possibility.
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