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Training gizmo that works - Page 2

post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
A device for telling you when your shoulders aren't level? How about just purchase a lesson?
A number of instructors are using them to help their guests understand what is happening with their bodies. Perhaps this is an indication that some instructors have a more difficult time than others helping their guests sense their body positions, but if it helps the guests, it may very well be worth adding to the toolbox.
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
A number of instructors are using them to help their guests understand what is happening with their bodies. Perhaps this is an indication that some instructors have a more difficult time than others helping their guests sense their body positions, but if it helps the guests, it may very well be worth adding to the toolbox.
Good point.
post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Guys, why so negative about The Ski Coach?
From the description of how the device works, I have no doubt that it will work well. However, my engineering background makes it hard for me to buy into an expensive solution when an order of magnitude cheaper one will ge the job done. My experience has been that my students can be trained to recognize and fix shoulder lean without spending $60. My experience is that shoulder lean is usually not the only issue that needs to be addressed. Getting the ski coach without additional instruction is not likely to change an average skier into an expert. My opinion is that the average skier is more likely to get greater value from a lesson than The Ski Coach.
post #34 of 56
therusty, I agree with what you're saying here, but think that as an assistant to an instructor, it may be useful. Like most instructional aids, use without an instructor will probably relegate it to the garage or locker. However, with an instructor, it may be a useful device at times. Or not.

But, SoftSnowSkier found it useful. So, it may help some folks.

Note: I learned of this early in the season, but also didn't see the value for me personally. However, it seems that it is helping some instructors, and may be a useful aid for instructors to have on hand for this particular skier issue.
post #35 of 56
Steve,

I'm so confused. Yes it worked for SoftSnowGuy. I believe it will work for a lot of people. I also believe a Ferrari can be used for a trip to the grocery store. Whether a pro uses it for students or a students use it for themselves, this is a costly solution for a simple problem.
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
I'm so confused. Yes it worked for SoftSnowGuy. I believe it will work for a lot of people. I also believe a Ferrari can be used for a trip to the grocery store. Whether a pro uses it for students or a students use it for themselves, this is a costly solution for a simple problem.
I've got one and it works well. I can feel the balls clacking from one side to the other so it works even when the wind is howling and the snow is making crunching noises. Its comfortable and can be worn all day long...you can pay attention to it when you want to and tune it out when you are focused on something else.

Its the cost of a lift ticket at most places so I'm having a hard time seeing its as being "costly". Its alot cheaper than having an instructor follow you around all day.
post #37 of 56
But it's a lot more expensive than dragging your downhill pole in the snow. A Ferrari will get you to the grocery store, and in style too. Some people need to go to the grocery store in style. Do you put premium gas in your economy car because it's only 10 cents more? It does work a little better than regular you know. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong choice here. For some people, this tool makes a lot of sense. For most people, it's overkill.
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
But it's a lot more expensive than dragging your downhill pole in the snow. A Ferrari will get you to the grocery store, and in style too. Some people need to go to the grocery store in style. Do you put premium gas in your economy car because it's only 10 cents more? It does work a little better than regular you know. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong choice here. For some people, this tool makes a lot of sense. For most people, it's overkill.
Have you actually tried one of these? From your posts it sounds like you've done a direct comparison with the pole dragging exercise and decided that they are same.
post #39 of 56
So what about turns in which balance requires the shoulders not be level? Does THE CLACKER recognize those instances and still deliver legitimate feedback?

http://ronlemaster.com/images/latest-images/slides/maier.html

http://ronlemaster.com/images/latest-images/slides/spencer-bc-2004-gs-1.html
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
So what about turns in which balance requires the shoulders not be level? Does THE CLACKER recognize those instances and still deliver legitimate feedback?
Yes Rick it works by centrifugal force. Carry the pressure where it belongs on the skis and the device will work. Go down the slope in a cloths pole mambo and you can forget any clinking.
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501
Have you actually tried one of these? From your posts it sounds like you've done a direct comparison with the pole dragging exercise and decided that they are same.
Max,

I have not tried the jacket. I have tried the boo and the pole drag and a few others both personally and in my lessons. When you are "ready", the boo works incredibly well. Based on this experience, I believe that the jacket can also work incredibly well. Once you've found a free solution that works incredibly well, why spend money to try something else? I say to at least try the free alternatives before you go spend money. Something about that approach just CLICKS in my head.
post #42 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty
Max,

I have not tried the jacket. I have tried the boo and the pole drag and a few others both personally and in my lessons. When you are "ready", the boo works incredibly well. Based on this experience, I believe that the jacket can also work incredibly well. Once you've found a free solution that works incredibly well, why spend money to try something else? I say to at least try the free alternatives before you go spend money. Something about that approach just CLICKS in my head.
Try the boo in the gates where dropping the inside shoulder is a natural reaction to clearing the gate rusty. I think you will find the ski coach to be much more user friendly.
post #43 of 56
It would be cool if those came with different tuning. Imagine a a group of student linking turns behind an instructor : according to student's position in the line, different melodies could be played. And bad stance spotted immediatly : false note !
post #44 of 56

The horse is looking worse for wear

Doh!

Point made and a funny mental image too!

If for some reason that you can't learn with bamboo outside of the race course (and we know that racers never learn anything outside of a race course) and dragging the outside pole does not work in the race course (oops racers never try things in a course that would slow them down), then by all means use the SKI COACH.
post #45 of 56
One more point for the ski coach therusty. Its fantastic for terminal robotic level II's that can compete with the Wells Fargo. The Ski Coach is EGO friendly as only the wearer is aware of what is going on. The bamboo is anything but ego friendly in front of others and always a source of possible injury. As a pro, its cheap to aquire one of these personal torture devices. Mental torture that is.
post #46 of 56
One of the nice things about the Ski Coach is that its with you all the time (unlike the bamboo) and you are learning with it while your body is in a normal skiing position. When you work with the bamboo your arms and hands are obviously well out of position. So you aren't really learning the correct body position with the bamboo pole, instead you are getting a feeling that you need to bring into your normal skiing. Meanwhile the Ski Coach is like an instructor whispering in your ear, "A little bit more...clank...yeah that's it" while you rip up the slopes in your normal skiing all over the mountain.
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Its fantastic for terminal robotic level II's that can compete with the Wells Fargo.
I'm sure I'll be shocked at how ignorant I am, but "Huh?" What's the Wells Fargo?
post #48 of 56
Bank, duh.
post #49 of 56
ssh, don't feel bad even I missed that one! : All together now, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHGAH that was bad!

I hate it when I'm the last one to the party. In retrospect, boy was that one obvious.:
post #50 of 56
Oh, heavens!!!!!
post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Yes Rick it works by centrifugal force. Carry the pressure where it belongs on the skis and the device will work. Go down the slope in a cloths pole mambo and you can forget any clinking.
I think I can see the value of a ski school or instructor owning one of these to use with students, just as an additional toy in the bag-o-tricks, however, Pierre's comment leads me to believe that for faster skiers, it would not work so well. If I made high speed turns, the only way the balls would not clack would be if I banked. If I angulated properly, they would move to the side.

Or... Do I have the technical workings of this ball dinger wrong?
post #52 of 56
JohnH,

As I understand it and can see from the photos, the tube is curved and slightly higher in the middle. The balls move from side to side. They clank as they move side to side and go over the "HUMP" hitting the washers at each end of the tube. If your outside shoulder is higher, the balls can't get to the outside end of the tube. Simple and ingenious.
post #53 of 56
Only good for slow skiing .
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
Do I have the technical workings of this ball dinger wrong?
I think you do. I was not able to fool it into giving me the wrong feedback no matter what speed or dynamics.
post #55 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
I think you do. I was not able to fool it into giving me the wrong feedback no matter what speed or dynamics.
Thanks. My bad. I didn't study the photos enough, I guess.
post #56 of 56
Okay, I just watched the little video, and I think I get it now. But notice the demo with the double pole drag? That's the exercise theRusty was referring to (although the demo was odd, the way he had such a low stance and the poles out so far to the side, but I don't think that matters for this conversation). It seems that this device is just giving you feedback, as opposed to an instructor giving the feedback. I can live with that. I think the device would work, but I think it's pretty expensive for what it provides.
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