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What makes a good crud ski?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
What characteristic (or characteristics combined) make a ski good in the cruddy broken up snow?

I am guessing stiffness, both the long way and torsional is the key.

Does weight or width or turn radius have anything to do with it.

I am sure there are some opinions out there and would like to read them.
post #2 of 21
I ski last years volkl 6 stars. The feeling I get from them when skiing the frozen marbles is incredible. I love the way they stay hooked up and on track even at high speed, they respond almost as if you are riding on rails.
post #3 of 21
Something with a bit of heft, a midfat (80+) waist, and a bit playful makes the crud just as much fun as a field of virgin pow. Something like Volkl Karmas or K2 Public Enemies.
post #4 of 21
Many times I have found the good crude skis are in fact usually stiffer- approaching racing skis. Also the tip and shovel of the ski has to be able to handle the pushing of the crude or smoothing down the snow. So the factors important are some of the same things that makes a ski good in a rutted race course. Not always the highest end race stock but stiffer torsionally and dampening effects.
post #5 of 21
A not too short midfat wich is on the stiffer end of the scale is probably the best in my opinion.
My G4's (now rock-skis) are great in crud. The just blow through it
post #6 of 21
From a physics standpoint, the ski needs to be a bit on the massive standpoint. Highly dense, and massive. This usually leads to stiffness, but that's also crucial.
post #7 of 21
stiffer, more weight, less shape (old volant chubbs)
post #8 of 21
What makes a good crud ski?

A good crud skier will go a long way.

I prefer something stiffer (in the shovel), reasonably hefty but with lots of shape. That way you can turn and still blast through the stuff. The Metron skis come to mind as the ideal crud buster for me.
post #9 of 21
Mass, and enough stiffness not to bend but to push through, and vibration absorbing ability.
post #10 of 21
It seems like a lot of you would really like to ski the crud like you ski the groomed.
post #11 of 21
Volant Machete Sin.
post #12 of 21
Depends upon the skier........

A stiff skiwill bust through crud fine but takes some speed in order to bend (therefore turn). If the skier has the confidence to ski fast enough to flex the ski, then stiff is fine. If the skier does not have that confidence, then somewhat softer will allow the ski to turn within thier speed comfort range. I personally prefer less shape rather than more in crud.

SJ
post #13 of 21
I like less shape as it will hook up less at high speed and throw me around.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by skugrud
What characteristic (or characteristics combined) make a ski good in the cruddy broken up snow?

I am guessing stiffness, both the long way and torsional is the key.

Does weight or width or turn radius have anything to do with it.

I am sure there are some opinions out there and would like to read them.
Dampness is as important as longitudinal stiffness in a ski for crud. Tortional stiffness is very important.

Weight is your friend in crud.

Turn radius does have something to do with it, and longer turn radius skis may have some advantage in crud, I tend to think so.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
stiffer, more weight, less shape (old volant chubbs)
While old Chubbs are certainly great crud skis, have relatively little shape, and a goodly concentration of weight, they are quite soft, unless you refer to the '01 or '02 Chubbs, which only really have a medium flex.
post #16 of 21
From last year's discussion on the same topic:

http://forums.epicski.com/showpost.p...39&postcount=9

Tom / PM
post #17 of 21
Voelkl Explosive, the very character for the crud which has got it all.
post #18 of 21
The ski needs to be well made; low cost cap construction skis are awful in crud.

The ski does not need to be very wide, however. I've used a Salomon Supermountain (110-78-100mm), Volant Machete Sin (115-81-104mm), Dynastar Intuitive 74 (113-74-99mm)and a Fischer RX8 (115-66-98mm)with great results in crud.

I would avoid a wide shovel ski with a tight turn radius. These features allow the ski to be easily deflected.

A moderately stiff ski with a moderately long turn radius is the ticket if the skier likes speed. A softer ski with a tighter turn radius is acceptable for the skier that is constantly turning, as long as the ski is well constructed. Look for carbon-fiber & titanium in a cap construction ski; most laminate skis will be well built for crud use also.

Cheers,

Michael
post #19 of 21
It still depends on the skier......

I ski crud every chance I get, and I really like skiing it on my Head i.Supershape skis...wide soft tip & tail, 65 mm waist, great carving ski, and it rides its edges through soft crud, frozen crud, bumps, and lumps better than anything else I've been on including my Machetes, PocketRockets, and old Explosivs. Another excellent choice is the Head i.XRC 1100. I think Head puts the boot mark too far back...myself and many others prefer these skis with the boot mark 1.5 cm forward of the ski mark, including powder skiing up to a foot deep (more than a foot of fresh and I'm on my PocketRockets).
http://www.head.com/ski/products.php...=racing&id=212
http://www.head.com/ski/products.php...kicross&id=228


Ken
post #20 of 21
The formula in the Elan M666 has been a spectacular crud buster for me. It's a mid-fat shape, wood-core with twin titanium laters, high stiffness (torsional), and very good damping. They really smooth out the ride, float and plow well, and give very good feedback through the foot. I always felt my RX-8 were demanding to ski in crud (as Michael points out, wide shovel ski with a tight turn radius is easily deflected/distracted), but the M666 makes it a piece of cake. They inspire a lot of confidence in ungroomed snow.
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrettscv
... I would avoid a wide shovel ski with a tight turn radius. These features allow the ski to be easily deflected...
This is true. However, this effect is greatly reduced with shorter skis since the lever arm is shorter. I would bet that the guys that said they did fine on deeply sidecut skis in crud were on skis that were no more than 170-175 long.

Going fast on any short skis in crud has it's own problems, but for reasonable speeds on deeply sidecut, stiff, heavy skis, I'm not surprised to see positive comments. I've got a bunch of skis and for my speeds in heavy, wet eastern crud I'd rank them (from best to worst):

190 Explosivs
165 Explosivs
184 10ex's
170 Head IC200 (stiff, heavy, approx 123-66-107)

everything else I've ever owned.

Tom / PM
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