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ski simulation weight training

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
i'm interested in empirically- based ski simulation weight training for strength and endurance. i've put together my own program and it's working, but want information on the best, proven methods.

here's what i do:

100 lb barbell on shoulders:
1. skier's stance, knees bent, simulated turns for 2 to 3 minutes
2. balls of feet elevated on 1" to 1.5" inch board on floor and as many calf lifts as i can do (20 to 25)
3. squats...as many as i can do (12 to 15)
4. wide based squats (12 to 15)
5. repeat
6. repeat

nordic track 3 miles in 20 minutes.

flexibility training.

alternate day by day

i'm getting significant gains in 7 weeks.

any suggestions appreciated.

keith
post #2 of 21
be cool with the simulated ski turns with the bar on yer shoulders.
good way to stretch some ligaments that really shouldn't be stretched out.
stick with good, clean squats, but do a set of the wieght you're at, then a set considerably heavier (something you can only do for , say, 2-3 reps)
then an unltralight ( but ultra-strict, as light sets are where damage is done, due to 'throwing it around) set of 50 or so reps. do the lightest, highest-rep set last, as the lightweight/high-rep stuff depletes your available glycogen much more than the heavy stuff.
make sure that the resistance is increased at least weekly in all the above. leg extensions and thigh-bicep (hamstring) curls are a nice addition, and for working all the tiny support groups around the kneees, etc., there is nothing like hiking your local mountain a few times a week and then riding back down on the chair.
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
vlad,

thx a "load" for the reply and great suggestions. i will add a HEAVY set at 2-3 reps (i already do that for bench presses) and then a lighter set at 50 reps...terrific! i left out hamstring curls on my list of exercises i'm doing.

which ligaments are prone to injury from ski simulation weight training?? gotta avoid injuries....

how far down do you go for squats?

what protein supplement do you recommend, if you use them?

regards,

bmg
post #4 of 21
Bluemonkeyglider,

If you have to ask the "how far down" question, you should not go heavy.

If you want to add squats to your routine, get to a gym and hire a personal trainer for a few sessions. One intro, and then a couple of follow ups to make sure you have the technique.

I recommend that you learn the technique with an empty bar first. Could take you a few weeks.

Squatting is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.

Many stabilizer ligaments can be damaged.

You would do far more for your skiing by doing core workouts:

http://www.d3multisport.com/articles.php

Check the weight training and core strength sections.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
Bluemonkeyglider,
You would do far more for your skiing by doing core workouts:
Absolutely. I am a witness to this. Husband had surgery last summer and was told to lay off the weights and work only on core instead. he was sure it would negatively affect his skiing, but it had the opposite effect. Much better balance, skill and endurance than with lots of arobic and weight training he did the year before . MUCH better.

edit: ps: don't be fooled. these exercizes look easy, but if you do them correctly, they are not!
post #6 of 21
What Big E and Mom said.
I did a USSA coaches clinic earlier this season conducted by coaches and trainers frron the US Olympic Training Center. They focused completely on core strenegth and endurance, not maximum strength. They demonstrated a lot of stability ball excercises and squats with light weights. The squats were done by holding a low position with only a few inches of vertical movement per repetition, with lots of repetitions. They used body weight only, on one leg, and focused on correct posture and form. They also completely dismissed plyometrics because of the risk of injury.

BK
post #7 of 21
Athletes are now using an extremely effective technique called Integrated Training. Start with a traditional strength exercise, using the weight you would normally use. For your next set, either eliminate or lighten your weight, and perform the same or a similar exercise on a balance device.

For example:

Squats followed by squats on a bosu or dyna disc
You can also do a set on the leg press, then lighten the weight and put a dyna disc on the foot pad.

Hamstring curls followed by stability ball bridge hamstring curls (please do a search in this forum-this exercise has been posted in many threads)

Make sure you don't let your quads get too much stronger than your hamstrings.

Also, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT:

Sport Medicine Experts, Orthopedic Surgeons and Physical Therapists are warning people against leg extensions!!!! They create a shearing force on your knee, which makes it a question of not if, but when you will tear your ACL.

Also, leg extensions are a quad isolation. Since the quads are already stronger than the hamstrings, there is no reason to isolate them to make them stonger. A quad/hamstring imbalance will not only set you up for injury, it will put you in the backseat.

Here is an article about strength training:
http://www.articleinsider.com/article/248614
Check out the other balance articles on the page.

Good Luck!
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
thanks so much, guys! exactly what i'm looking for.

keith
post #9 of 21
I am a former competitive bodybuilder and have been training with weights for almost 30 years. Yet I have to agree 100% with the advice given about concentrating on core strength and doing exercises on balance devices.

I do all kinds of stuff on the balance ball, including squats.
post #10 of 21
lighter weights and balance devices are more commonly related to injuries
than strict form, ultra-basic movements.
when performing squats, keep a nice reference stop behind you, so as to , initially, keep your deepest squat a bit higher than seated position. This is easily accomplished by placing a couple of stacked milk crates behind you.
start light.
having an experienced squatter spot you is a great way to check form, as is....
a mirror.
i'll bet there are more than a handful of ex-bodybuilders on this board.
lemme find a scanner.


one other thing, all of youze who wanna work on strength conditioning for skiing:

do slow leg-extensions on the chair, with your skis as weights. work in plyometric drills. I used to train myself, and later my athletes, to try to hold one leg out at full extension, in the chairlift, (hands held under/around knee) for longer distances each lift-ride.
also tightens up the secondary muscle groups which wrap around the knees.
take turns with each leg, concentrated, one-leg-extensions.

this will make an immense difference in your quad conditioning in very little time.
post #11 of 21
vlad: lighter weights and balance devices are more commonly related to injuries than strict form, ultra-basic movements

Well, of course, but if you only do basic exercises in strict form, the injuries will come on the slope. You need to "simulate" the unpredictable and unstable nature of skiing in order to be better prepared for it, don't you agree? World class skiers work on such balance stuff (with and without light weights) all the time. So I am confused about your statement.

vlad: i'll bet there are more than a handful of ex-bodybuilders on this board.

Everyone who ever got a pump can call himself/herself a bodybuilder. I am talking about the real thing. Training twice a day, competitions, doing the low carb (anabolic, ketogenic) diets long before anyone ever heard of Atkins. The true meaning of "bodybuilder" comes loud and clear when you are posing on a stage in front of thousands of people.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
vlad: lighter weights and balance devices are more commonly related to injuries than strict form, ultra-basic movements

Well, of course, but if you only do basic exercises in strict form, the injuries will come on the slope. You need to "simulate" the unpredictable and unstable nature of skiing in order to be better prepared for it, don't you agree? World class skiers work on such balance stuff (with and without light weights) all the time. So I am confused about your statement.

vlad: i'll bet there are more than a handful of ex-bodybuilders on this board.

Everyone who ever got a pump can call himself/herself a bodybuilder. I am talking about the real thing. Training twice a day, competitions, doing the low carb (anabolic, ketogenic) diets long before anyone ever heard of Atkins. The true meaning of "bodybuilder" comes loud and clear when you are posing on a stage in front of thousands of people.
uhhh...yeah. that's what i'm getting at. bodybuilding and DH comp are actually very complementary.
actually, replicating the movements of skiing, with resistance training, can be seriously damaging to many ligaments and cartilage.
best to exercise muscles according to their most centralized and efficient movements, and to leave the eccentirc movements to the sport itself.
think about it:
a boxer whom stands upright and uses heavy dumbells to simulate the movements of hitting a heavy-bag will do serious detriment to his acromioclavicular joint and his rotator cuff.
were that same boxer to do nice, strict benchwork, he'd be strengthening the same muscle bellies without utilizing the joints in eccentric attitudes.
same with skiing.
ask tom platz or sergio oliva.
one skied, the other boxed.
post #13 of 21
Ahh, those names sure bring back memories.

I do agree that "ski simulation" with resistance is not a great idea.
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
hmmmm...o.k. what about ski simulation without weight resistance?

keith
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
Ahh, those names sure bring back memories.

I do agree that "ski simulation" with resistance is not a great idea.
i probabaly should have kept it simple and just said that
it'd be a blast to run into 'the golden eagle' at alpine meadows (where, incidentally, the austrian oak, ah-nold, was living in '91, blasting about in a barely sporterized humvee)
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
great input, guys and gals. i've incorporated some of your suggestions into my training program.

i am now up to 2.8 miles to 3.4 miles in 20 minutes on the nordic track ski machine. 9 weeks ago, when i started after a 10 year hiatus (!), i could only do 1.5 miles in 20 minutes. my aerobic workout heart rate runs between 170 to 180 beats per minute. my resting heart rate has gone from 88 to 68 beats per minute in this 9 week time frame.

i'm still doing ski simulation, but with lighter weights than before i first posted, here. i've always done very slow movements from side to side in a skier's stance. i have gone from 1 minute to reach lactic burn 9 weeks ago to 5 minutes, now.

i'm still doing free weights on the bench (bench press at 150 and reverse leg culrs at 55 lbs) and calf extensions and shallow squats with good form and 100 lbs on the shoulders....is it a good idea to do 25 reps for calves and 50 reps for shallow squats? seems like it would be in order to build endurance.

i'm also doing balance work, situps, and flexibility exercises.

i have felt no pain; had no injuries; and am pleased with the progress i've made so far. i have felt only the expected muscle soreness encountered after doing effortful exercise, but it goes away after a day. i alternate every other day with aerobics/stretching and weights/stretching.

i am open to comments, suggestions, and constructive criticism.

many thanks to all,

keith atkins
post #17 of 21
http://www.stoneclinic.com/preski.htm

You may find some helpful info in the above article also....

I second (or third or fourth, etc) core strengthening exercises....Pilates is a nice change from lifting, etc.....
post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
jenscates: wow! thanks...i wish i'd had this 10 weeks ago. i will be better prepared next trip out.

keith
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyglider
hmmmm...o.k. what about ski simulation without weight resistance?

keith
Try Thera-bands for your ski simulation.
post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
loboskis,

thx for the rx for thera-bands. i'll look into them.

bmg
post #21 of 21
Use a bench for the quads. You'll save your knees.
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