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Not a competition - Page 3

post #61 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
But, I also have the unfortunate malady of being an idealistic optimist... : :
My husband says this...
Some think the glass is half full.
Some think the glass is half empty.
I just wanna know who took half my milk!

Just a thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Edit: Just read back and found that Trekchick already offered this idea. Sorry there, TC.
That's the one thing about me that you may find comforting. I'm okay with it if someone repeats me, and I'm okay if no one agrees with me.(though it's nice to know that I'm not alone in my thoughts)

At the end of the day, this forum and what I write won't keep me awake, neither fearful I offended somone nor angry because someone didn't acknowledge my brilliance.
post #62 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick
That's the one thing about me that you may find comforting. I'm okay with it if someone repeats me, and I'm okay if no one agrees with me.(though it's nice to know that I'm not alone in my thoughts)

At the end of the day, this forum and what I write won't keep me awake, neither fearful I offended somone nor angry because someone didn't acknowledge my brilliance.
Makes for a very peaceful place to live.
post #63 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
But, I also have the unfortunate malady of being an idealistic optimist... : :

when the skies are brighter canary yellow
I forget ev'ry cloud I've ever seen,
So they called me a cockeyed optimist
Immature and incurably green.

I have heard people rant and rave and bellow
That we're done and we might as well be dead,
But I'm only a cockeyed optimist
And I can't get it into my head.

I hear the human race
Is fallin' on its face
And hasn't very far to go,
But ev'ry whippoorwill
Is sellin' me a bill,
And tellin' me it just ain't so.

I could say life is just a bowl of Jello
And appear more intelligent and smart,
But I'm stuck like a dope
With a thing called hope,
And I can't get it out of my heart!
Not this heart...


sorry couldn't help myself...
post #64 of 85
disski, you wrote that poem just for me?!?!

(told you I was an optimist...just kidding)
post #65 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
disski, you wrote that poem just for me?!?!

(told you I was an optimist...just kidding)

of course dear
(I'm a compulsive liar)
post #66 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Rick, that's a very interesting observation... I find that the more mature a person is, the more likely that are to seek to find new information and a "nugget of truth" in the thoughts of all others. Also, the more confident one is in one's thinking, the more open to alternatives one is.

I find it interesting that skiing seems to bring out a lot of absolutists in the mid-levels of knowledge (lots of open knowledge seekers at the early stages and also in the extreme high-level stages, it seems). Any idea why that might be?
maybe becuase they're not candy-coating their close-mindedness by stating that someone's repackaging old concepts and offering nothing new.
just a thought.
post #67 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollmeister
I was more referring to the best ski photos thread in the General Forum, but this works. You like bikes, eh?

Mollmeister
some freaky control
post #68 of 85
It's hard not to be passionate about topics you feel passion for. However, for the sake of my own sanity, I've had to learn to let things rest. This is sometimes a difficult thing to do when someone posts "advice" in health and fitness that is is going to be extremely dangerous to the original poster. Actually, this has happened recently. The best I can do is explain my point, explain the research behind it and hope that the person asking the question makes the logical decision, based on what is being said as opposed to how "loud" the poster is "saying it." I feel guilty, because by not getting into a debate, if one single person gets hurt by listening to horrific, highly dangerous advice, it would bother me. However, flame wars do nothing more than confuse the person who is asking the question. Hopefully, logic will prevail.
post #69 of 85
LM, I can relate.
post #70 of 85
This is a thought provoking thread. SSH may have made his best observation ever in the comment about thirsting for learning, taking pride in what we know and being open to new views and perspectives.

SSH works very hard to make this place as valuable to those who read, think and post, as it is to those who react, vent and post. We all owe him a huge thank you (maybe even in large, bold red type!)
post #71 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sno'more
This is a thought provoking thread. SSH may have made his best observation ever in the comment quoted by Rick directly above me.

SSH works very hard to make this place as valuable to those who read, think and post, as it is to those who react, vent and post. We all owe him a huge thank you (maybe even in large, bold red type!)
AMEN!

THANK YOU SSH!
or in your home language...
Oh my heck! Preciate ya!
post #72 of 85
i disagree.
while i enjoy ssh's many threads,
i've found that he gets a little heavier with the mod hand than neccessary without first considering other viewpoints.

as in my thread regarding 'sitting back' and 'crouching', he first argues the point brought up, then, when the point is validated by deeper explanation, example, etc., steve quickly dismisses it as 'old news'.

steve actually ( albeit passively) instigates much of the dick-swinging on this site, which he later derides.

he'll figure it out, though, whether it takes a gold pin, a writ from the wizard of oz or whatever. steve's essentially a good, solid internet entity
in need of broadened ski-philosophical horizons.
huzzah, i say.
post #73 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
i disagree.
while i enjoy ssh's many threads,
i've found that he gets a little heavier with the mod hand than neccessary without first considering other viewpoints.
???? I disagree. He is quite light with his moderating, and with his ability to be openminded lets many things go that would probably be better off stopped.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
steve actually ( albeit passively) instigates much of the dick-swinging on this site, which he later derides.
I've not seen Steve instigate any of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
he'll figure it out, though, whether it takes a gold pin, a writ from the wizard of oz or whatever. steve's essentially a good, solid internet entity
in need of broadened ski-philosophical horizons.
huzzah, i say.
In his conversations he's always open to having his horizons broadened. The "huzzah" I agree with. We've got a great moderator here. Thanks, Steve!
post #74 of 85
I second (third?) the thought that ssh is doing a great job. Before he became a moderator this place was not doing very well since AC was runnin' the place.

He is opinionated and participates actively in threads, which isn't a common stance for a moderator, but I've never seen him be anything but polite.

(And he's a great skier too - not empty posturing when he talks about skiing!)
post #75 of 85
like i say, i disagree. i'm new here, which certainly colours my viewpoint differently.
i think youze two might be missing the point, though- i don't doubt esteban's skiing prowess for a moment, and i sure like 99% of him that i read, and i probably agree with 85%, whether or not i show it.
it's just that by particpating in mcuh of the debate (which i wouldn't want to see slowed down for a moment) he does create some of the resistance against which the occasional howling begins.
post #76 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
.
. steve's essentially a good, solid internet entity
This is a strange way to describe a person. I don't know how one goes about "passively instigating" something.

When I first replied to this thread I felt Coach was right and Steve had made an interesting point, which I agreed with. I did not read a lot of the threads. Some threads, for whatever reason, I never bothered to read. Last night I decided to do a bit of reading and I must agree with Trekchick, and the others who posted about the signal to noise ratio.

I have only been on this site for a few months and previously had only one instance where I read a comment (that involved sand) that I was offended by. Its just not necessary to use vulgar and crude speech to convey a point, and I told the poster the comment was not necessary and moved on. Some of the language I have read last nite is simply ridiculous. There is no need for it. This crude, vulgar, and pointless bleating has nothing of value. It simply assaults the communal spirit and serves to alienate and inflagrate ( <--- not sure if thats an actual word but I'm on a roll so I'm leavin it).

This site is what it is, if you don't like it or think it too tame, simply search out an alternative that better suits your style (this is most likely a quote from another thread). There are discussion boards that are more akin to dark dive bars and they offer great discussions and have a very freewheeling atmosphere, which is fun. Many of the people here have kids. Why should they be expected to put time and effort into something they wouldn't be proud to show their children?
post #77 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe
I've hunted far and wide. This is THE best ski web site I've been able to find. If you think some of the flame wars are bad here, you would be appalled at what happens elsewhere. Considering the high traffic, the moderators do a damned fine job.


Read posts selectively. If a thread gets obnoxious, leave it. If it's destructive, report it. Illegitimus non carborundum.
I went to a few other sites to see what others had to say when I was trying to figure out which ski I wanted to buy in the fall. I signed on to Epic because I liked the tone and felt the forums here were less flamable.
It's only been recently that the "language, and tone" has turned ugly(my opinion) in a few threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
i disagree.
while i enjoy ssh's many threads,
i've found that he gets a little heavier with the mod hand than neccessary without first considering other viewpoints.
The moderating here is well done. I clearly don't understand what you're talking about.
post #78 of 85
I probably shouldn't respond to this, but, given the effort that I put into being as fair and lenient as I think I can be, I thought I might take a moment to respond, hopefully in a way that communicates my open-minded willingness to be wrong...
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
i disagree.
while i enjoy ssh's many threads,
i've found that he gets a little heavier with the mod hand than neccessary without first considering other viewpoints.
I am having a very difficult time understanding where I have been "heavier...than neccessary" in moderation. It is a relative statement, though, and EpicSki's policies and terms specifically align the site along some specific boundaries. Any moderation activities (and, so we're clear, I am not the only moderator here) are to keep the site confined to these areas, and my personal moderation guidelines are pretty strict. FWIW, I have been moderating on-line conversations since 1983. I do have some experience doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
as in my thread regarding 'sitting back' and 'crouching', he first argues the point brought up, then, when the point is validated by deeper explanation, example, etc., steve quickly dismisses it as 'old news'.
I just reviewed that entire thread. The first post is one in which I say, "I'll play" and proceed to outline some of the reasons that I think one might want to do what you are suggesting (provided that I understand it correctly). I then suggest that you might consider alternate phrasings of your question, followed with my opinion that the "vociferous trashing" that you suggest isn't nearly that strong. I then made a post that attempted to describe in my words what I thought you were describing, asking if I was getting it... And that was it prior to your post quoted above. In other words, I said nothing of what you accuse me of saying. So, I think this statement is misleading and attempts to damage my reputation in the process of making false representation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
steve actually ( albeit passively) instigates much of the dick-swinging on this site, which he later derides.
I hate the phrase, but you said it so I'll quote it. That said, I believe this to be a misrepresentation, as well. My only statements about my skill and/or knowledge have been in response to those who have questioned my credentials. I am the first to admit that there are many skiers better than me, and that most instructors and coaches are far more knowledgeable than I am. I just don't see how you could apply this to me, but if you (or anyone) would care to point it out (ideally in a PM), I'll read what's being interpreted that way and attempt to adjust my communication style.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
he'll figure it out, though, whether it takes a gold pin, a writ from the wizard of oz or whatever. steve's essentially a good, solid internet entity
in need of broadened ski-philosophical horizons.
huzzah, i say.
I'm not quite sure what it is you are convinced I'll figure out, but I appreciate the vote of confidence, nonetheless.

My perspective on all of this is that you read a lot into my posts that just isn't there for some reason(s) I don't understand. You've made assumptions about my allegiance to various schools of thought, teaching, and so on that are demonstrably false. And you have consistently tried to defuse debate by claiming levity as your method.

So consider exercising a bit of that open-mindedness that you so frequently espouse. Perhaps the kettle isn't quite as black as you think...
post #79 of 85
ssh, I have not read all of the thread, but must say that if vlad is indeed misquoting you, putting words into your fingers, and falsly accusing you of things then he is trolling and/or baiting you.

vlad, are you doing this with awareness of the falseness of your statements or are you so quick to reply, to accuse that you don't even take the time or effort to accuse accurately? Can you back up your accusations with facts?

In a short time you have alienated many here, then have used your wit and your experience to create a flood of support for yourself. this support will not hold, nor will you be welcome here if you continue to make unthinking and false statements about other's posts.

I suggest you think a bit more before posting. If however you are thinking, and are aware of what you are doing, then I suggest you step away from the keyboard. You are a guest here and have no entitlement, as do none of us. This is not our community, we are members and supporters of a private website designed, and carefully moderated to create an environment that follows the wishes of the owners.

No amount of knowledge and experience will make up for an unwelcome guest.
post #80 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
No amount of knowledge and experience will make up for an unwelcome guest.
Applies to all of us, as it should.
post #81 of 85
ssh,

Maybe the moderators might want to have an alias to do their posting under. That way people would see that you were talking as a member and not as a moderator. (I think you are finding out that for some people you need to keep things really simple.)

The only problem I see is when your alias goes over the line and you have to ban yourself. ........ I'm starting to feel like this is going to devolve into a discussion of time machines and shooting your own grandfather. Interesting paradox.
post #82 of 85
that's all well and good. as i've said, i like steve's posts. i did NOT like his obseqious PM to me asking me to remove a psot where i refrred to movemen t analysis as movement ANALysis. it was a reference to anal-retentive thinking, not a reference to the collective rectum.
then, it was deleted, and ssh tells me he didn't delete it.
several more posts of mine were deleted, however, a post where another bear refers to something i state as "Bull shit" remains.
that's selective moderation.
i'm the onloy oen who's going to notice my disappearing posts ,and i noticed that one of esteban's posts, which i'd refered to in the same threda, disappeared, as well.
good show, steve.
for others to weigh in on something they haven't been privy to is a little quick on the draw.
steve- you ripped on me when i poked fun at the psia, and you stated respect for the psia as your locus for asking me to remove my MA post. so, you were, in fact, defending a system you're steeped in. not that there's anything horrible in that, but....
let's keep it honest, esteban.
a moderator whom chooses sides in a debate is really antithetical to the word, and title, itself.
how about a ref who wears the colours of one team, and not the other, judging in favour of the team whose crest he wears?
that's what happens here, and that's my point.
other than that, i really like steve's intelligent, thoughtful posts.
post #83 of 85
vlad, I am not the only moderator here. I did not delete those posts, but they were deleted by another moderator (including the post I had made). Again, you are jumping to conclusions that are false. Post deletions are made for reasons of maintaining the word and intent of the terms of the site. So, when a thread isn't about skiing but is outside the Lounge, it is either moved or deleted. When a thread devolves into baiting, sniping, and trolling, it is removed for the same reason (since it is usually too difficult or time-consuming to try to unravel it into something useful). Sometimes, when a thread has a very specific purpose (as does the movement analysis credentials thread), off-topic posts are removed (this is what happened to that post of yours as well as a couple of posts I had made that were not on-topic--none of which were directed at you).

Your lenses are filtering your opinions here in a pretty significant way, but you don't see it. My only "crest" in my role as moderator here is an EpicSki one, and I take it pretty seriously (sometimes more seriously than is good for me personally) and tend to actually give more benefit of the doubt to those with whom I do not agree.

Regarding the post you mention, I haven't seen it and it wasn't reported (I do not read every thread nor every forum, nor does any other moderator, and that's why the "report post" button is there). However, it sounds like the other member was attacking your idea and not you. Against this there are no limitations in the terms, although I personally find the language inappropriate and distasteful.

I hope this clarifies some of the moderation guidelines and the actions that have been taken. If you have questions on this, feel free to ask. My PM and e-mail are both open on Epic.
post #84 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Square
Maybe the moderators might want to have an alias to do their posting under. That way people would see that you were talking as a member and not as a moderator. (I think you are finding out that for some people you need to keep things really simple.)

The only problem I see is when your alias goes over the line and you have to ban yourself. ........ I'm starting to feel like this is going to devolve into a discussion of time machines and shooting your own grandfather. Interesting paradox.
I have actually thought about this, but to do so seems subversive to me. You'll note that I explicitly state my real name and location in my signature and profile, and I prefer not to use a pseudonym (my username is simply my initials, and a username I have used for over 20 years in most electronic areas of my life).

However, I think that this is one of the issue with the way that some folks view me. I am vocal and opinionated and passionate about our sport. I am idealistic and optimistic. I like to participate on the threads openly and honestly, but a number of folks have observed that I have backed off since becoming a moderator. It's a line that is challenging for me to walk. But, I'm trying, FWIW...
post #85 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
However, I think that this is one of the issue with the way that some folks view me. I am vocal and opinionated and passionate about our sport. I am idealistic and optimistic. I like to participate on the threads openly and honestly, but a number of folks have observed that I have backed off since becoming a moderator. It's a line that is challenging for me to walk. But, I'm trying, FWIW...
You are clearly an enthusiast of the sport, and a caring individual. Your willingness to be a moderator in this forum is valuable to those of us who don't want to see it turn into an uncomfortable place to visit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
No amount of knowledge and experience will make up for an unwelcome guest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knealebrownson
Applies to all of us, as it should.
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