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No wax for new skis?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I'm the proud owner of some new skis (Head iC Cyber 160), getting ready to use them for the first time. I poked around the archives and found many strong recommendations to wax the skis (several times) before using them, b/c the factory wax is for transport only and not adequate for skiing.

Yet the store I bought the skis from (a store I trust generally speaking), as well as the three other local stores I called, says there is no need to wax before using. They all claim that the skis are shipped ready to use.

Has something changed, or am I just getting bad information from multiple sources?
post #2 of 27
Thats a good question, Id love to hear the answer to that one too. I just bought the new Salomon Scream HOT's and Im debating getting them waxed before I take them to the slopes....any advice would be great!
post #3 of 27
There's no reason NOT to wax new skis.

It's easy, doesn't cost much, and can't do any harm.

I always wax new skis, but I don't mess with the edge angles until I've skied them a few times and know how they feel.

Why aren't you skiing on them already???
post #4 of 27
I've also been told the same thing at several shops from MI to CO to UT in regards to skis and snowboards. IMO, it's bunk. I once demoed a snowboard when visiting UT. The guy pulled it right out of the wrapper--brand new Burton board. I asked if he would wax it before I take it out. "No need...they come ready to use" says he. Okay, fine. I take it out to Powder Mountain on a gorgeous storm day (two feet throughout the day), buckle in, stand up, and I didn't move an inch. I ended up having a quick wax job at the shop there just get sliding. After that experience, I wax my skis immediatly after purchasing them. I don't want to waste time on the hill or money at a shop because someone feels the equipment is ready to go as is.

Plus, if they do wax, how do you know it's to your standards? Most likely it's some cheap all-temp wax. I'd rather pick out my wax based on the conditions of the location I'm skiing/riding.

cheers,
dan
post #5 of 27
Always waxs new skis. I don't care if they are begginer, intermediate, or expert skis. The wax that comes on the skis from the manufacturer is not a hot wax it's a topical or spray on wax usually for protection in shipping like stated above. Therefore the pours of the ski have not had a chance to open up and recieve wax. Wax is what protects your ski from burn and what makes you move without sticking. In my opinion the guys at the shops you have talked to are wrong. One can NEVER wax to much. It will giver your ski longer life and let it run better.

CERAF
post #6 of 27
Wax them, if you don't have the equipment for doing it yourself, get some "paste" wax such as Swix F4, swab it on.
Skin cream for your skis?
post #7 of 27
I'd also say wax before skiing. I'll be on my new Troublemakers for the first time this Saturday, and they're getting a proper wax before I go out. I see o reason not to. My first pair of skis, I took out on the factory wax and they had base burn when I was done for the day. I wax every or every other day out depending on how my boards look when the day is over. It's quick, easy, and cheap. Why take the chance of skiing on factory wax?
post #8 of 27
I will get my new AX3's tonight. I will tune the edges and wax them before I drive to Sugarloaf tomorrow. I may even find time to have the piston bindings mounted onto my G3's before I go.

I have come to only trust skis that I have tuned.
post #9 of 27
In one respect the shop is right they are ready to ski. But They maynot be ready to ski for the conditions and area you will be skiing. When I buy new skis I always have a base grind to structre the base as well as get a coat of wax that will generally match the conditions at that time. it only takes the shop a few mins to do this after mounting the bindings. Remember to take good care of the Tech a six pack of Good Beer. Maybe a sam Adams or a good Import. Something like that goes along way when you really need some help like getting a core shot fixed.
post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
Ok, thanks for the input. It sounds like waxing is still a good idea. I'll give it a go. As a first timer, anything I should know? I guess I should pick up some wax, a scraper, brushes, and a spare iron. Anything else I might need?

Is this a good method for waxing?

http://68.89.177.221/lacy/how_to_wax_your_skis.htm

Has anyone tried this system?

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ay.waxwhiz.htm
post #11 of 27
Go to www.tognar.com. All you need is right there. They have good tuning tips and also pretty decent prices on tools/supplies. I find them to be about $2-$3 cheaper than local shops. Plus, they'll have the temperature range you want. Often, the shops won't have the wax I want for the expected conditions. They also have little "beginner" packages for getting started tuning.

Cheers,
dan
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by ne11anad:
Go to www.tognar.com. All you need is right there. They have good tuning tips and also pretty decent prices on tools/supplies. I find them to be about $2-$3 cheaper than local shops. Plus, they'll have the temperature range you want. Often, the shops won't have the wax I want for the expected conditions. They also have little "beginner" packages for getting started tuning.

Cheers,
dan
Hey this is an interesting thread!! I'm new to owning my own skis. Can you tell me (or anyone else too) what you mean (with examples) by having the right wax for a particular condition on the hill?

Thanks!
post #13 of 27
bostoneel- Ray's have been mentioned before:

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...=004966#000001

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...=004792#000000

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...=003846#000002

Snowbear- there is a wax thread active almost any given day. By now you've probably read that wax plays a 3-fold role:

- protection from the elements

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c;f=1;t=005244

- speed

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c;f=1;t=005182

- maintenance of ski base flexibility/internal condition (see the Toko wax manual for a good cross-section pic).

Other threads to catch you up on the reading list, aside from Tognar:

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c;f=1;t=005066

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c;f=1;t=004998
post #14 of 27
Quote:
When I buy new skis I always have a base grind to structre the base....
Utah49 -

What skis have you bought recently? When I bought my Pocket Rockets and V-Pros I found the bases already had a decent structure in them. Having them ground would have been overkill. All I did was hot wax them.
post #15 of 27
For new skis I always clean them to get the factory wax and grime off them. Always wipe away lots of crap away. You can wax clean/hot scrape and wax again but I just use cleaner. I try to wax every day or every 2 days max on new skis till they've had three wax jobs. Usually use warm temp wax for first wax. If first day is going to be really cold then I'd use warm wax, let cool scrap and brush, then use cold wax.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by John J:
Wax them, if you don't have the equipment for doing it yourself, get some "paste" wax such as Swix F4, swab it on.
Skin cream for your skis?
F4 is just a bandaid. It will make your skis slide for a couple of runs but, unless you're racing, the point of waxing is not to slide faster. The main purpose is to protect and moisturize your base so that it doesnt go white. When your base gets white and dry, it is easy for particles to get torn off, merely from friction. This cause bases to become "railed" (where the base becomes concave), causing skis to become grabby. Only a good hot waxing sinks into the pores of the base to really protect. F4 is bs.

As for new skis, I'll give the same answer as everyone else. It can't hurt...
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for the great replies. Ok, how's this look for a list of things to get (most likely from Artech, as my local shop doesn't seem to stock many of these items):

1. Cheap, second-hand iron, with no steam holes (is this ok, or am I better off going with a $25-30 SKS waxing iron?)

2. Dominator Zoom universal (green) wax, 400g

3. Plastic Scraper

4. Bronze brush

5. Horsehair brush

Is that sufficient to get me going and keep me going for the foreseeable future? At this point, I can't see myself tuning my own skis, though I'm sure that's next on the list as I get more comfortable working with them.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by bostoneel:
Thanks again for the great replies. Ok, how's this look for a list of things to get (most likely from Artech, as my local shop doesn't seem to stock many of these items):

1. Cheap, second-hand iron, with no steam holes (is this ok, or am I better off going with a $25-30 SKS waxing iron?)

2. Dominator Zoom universal (green) wax, 400g

3. Plastic Scraper

4. Bronze brush

5. Horsehair brush

Is that sufficient to get me going and keep me going for the foreseeable future? At this point, I can't see myself tuning my own skis, though I'm sure that's next on the list as I get more comfortable working with them.
Consider a hard nylon brush too. And some Scotchbrite.

As to the cheap, second-hand iron, you will find that a ski-specific iron maintains temperature more easily and scatters less wax off the leading edge. That $25-30 might actually save you some wax money, if you're looking for an excuse, aside from the fact that "dinosaur" irons are getting hard to find.

Stay away from compact "travel" irons. The heating elements are generally too puny for wax use.
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by bostoneel:
Thanks again for the great replies. Ok, how's this look for a list of things to get (most likely from Artech, as my local shop doesn't seem to stock many of these items):

1. Cheap, second-hand iron, with no steam holes (is this ok, or am I better off going with a $25-30 SKS waxing iron?)

2. Dominator Zoom universal (green) wax, 400g

3. Plastic Scraper

4. Bronze brush

5. Horsehair brush

Is that sufficient to get me going and keep me going for the foreseeable future? At this point, I can't see myself tuning my own skis, though I'm sure that's next on the list as I get more comfortable working with them.
My iron actually has holes...no big deal. And I never scrape unless I have a race. It comes off on its own after about 10 runs.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by bostoneel:

5. Horsehair brush

I've got a question, is a horsehair brush required if your not using fluoro waxes? If just using hydrocarbon won't a hard and soft nylon brush work fine even for the competitive beer league racer. Well unless using fluoro.
post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the heads up on the iron. A compact "travel" iron is what I was considering picking up on the cheap, so that's good to know.

And I'd love to know more about which brushes to get. I expect to be using only hydrocarbon waxes (I don't expect to move beyond recreational skiing). What brushes would I need for that?

D(C), do you use brushes? And do the holes just fill with wax and stay that way with no problems?
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by dougw:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bostoneel:

5. Horsehair brush

I've got a question, is a horsehair brush required if your not using fluoro waxes? If just using hydrocarbon won't a hard and soft nylon brush work fine even for the competitive beer league racer. Well unless using fluoro.</font>[/quote]Horsehair can get into finer structures than nylon, and is useful for warm waxes too.

It's a somewhat marginal justification for a beginner budget. I've made do with bristle hair brushes from the dep before.

D(C), the beginner instinct is to tilt a steam iron hole-vents-up when melting the bar. This makes for spectacular smoke/fumes when going from CH10(prep) to CH4, say.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by bostoneel:
<anip> And do the holes just fill with wax and stay that way with no problems?
You can get away with it for a while if you melt the bar holding the iron vents-down and use surface tension to drip the melt where you want it. It's a good plan to clean the iron on scrap paper or rags (not newsprint) when changing waxes, too.

What I was trying to say earlier is that the flat arrowhead shape of a clothes-iron sole is not really suited to following the contour of a cambered ski, so one generally winds up holding the iron at an angle to the tip-tail direction, with the ends sticking out beyond the base. That same surface tension that helped you before means you get extra drip off the sides (and onto your toepieces, say).
post #24 of 27
Found that most skis come with storage wax on them. This is usually all temp wax. Good idea to wax your new skis right out of the box... or plastic... or whatever. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Irons might build up wax on the edges of the iron. In the holes? Haven't had that problem. gravity usually helps here. Before turning the iron off, wrap your Scotch Brite in a paper towel and lay the iron on it (here and there if you have the large one from the ski store) for a few seconds. The towel will absorb wax from your iron and also from the Scotch Brite. turn the SB over and do the other side. Stick a fork in ya... you're done! Iron is clean and so is the Scotch Brite pad (instead of throwing away the pad).

I won a tip award from Tognar for this one.
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by bostoneel:

D(C), do you use brushes? And do the holes just fill with wax and stay that way with no problems?
I use brushes at races, but if I weren't I really wouldn't bother. A base is designed with channels that run from tip to tail to allow the ski to go faster, and what the brush does is, after scraping, removes excess wax in order to clear the channels. As far as I'm concerned, alot of that stuff is overrated unless you're racing.

The holes do not fill up if you wax with the iron perpendicular to the base. It just runs off.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by comprex:

D(C), the beginner instinct is to tilt a steam iron hole-vents-up when melting the bar. This makes for spectacular smoke/fumes when going from CH10(prep) to CH4, say.
Yeah, thats true. I didn't think of that... No holes would definitely be ideal, there's no question.
post #27 of 27
I unwrap my race skis and check to see if they need any work before using them. I set edge angles for what I want, and make certain they are not base or edge high.

For my demo skis, I unwrap and use them as is. I add wax when needed. The stuff they ship them with glides well, but doesn't go in far, therefore does not last long.
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