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Supersport 5 stars

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
All right, I can't believe what I'm about to do. Buy my first pair of non-race skis ever. I'm 32 and race every chance I get. Can I get away with a pair of T50 supersports as GS skis? I absolutely LOVE these skis, but are they beefy enough for the course? I want to do it, but I really don't want to give up any speed on league night. I've got a lot of pride at stake.
post #2 of 26
If yer pride is at stake i woudlnt show up at a race on a pair of very short all mountain slalom markups... not the best way to get in with the racer crowd... haha. Now on a serious note: I woudlnt race on T50's unless youre racing someplace that doesnt know what ice is, and you have to be running a modified GS course. An actual GS course would not do good things to T50's, they are simply too soft, too wide, and too short. But can it be done... certainly, would you lose a possible edge that you have on racers who are running real race skis... probably. The T50 is a great ski, but it doesnt seem to have a place on the race course... Its not quite a carving ski, not quite a slalom ski, not quite a true midfat ski. If you are looking for a good ski that will smoke other racers and still ski well as an all mountain ski, id try the dynastar speed 63 (or whatever the new name is - if it indeed has one). If i were skiing modified GS I'd keep my GS skis from last season: Salomon Equipe 10 2V - 172cm 17m radius, providing the hill was steep enough to get them going fast enough to turn. Or you can always use a slalom ski, any of them will do (accept for the new volkls which are bad).
post #3 of 26
I have to agree with Greg. I played around on the Volkl's at Mt. Hood this summer and thought they were too "whippy" for gates. Most of the rec. GS skis are awesome for cruising the groomers and crud but can't even come close to matching the edgehold, power and dampness of the real rockets. When you are trying to hold a tight line on ice the last thing you want to see are your tips flapping around. Hell, I even think some of the GS skis on the market have no business in same class as the legitimate examples.

You and I are about the same age and as pathetic as it seems, I'm probably more competitive now than I was 10-15 years ago. I know where you are coming from, so I would choose your weapon wisely
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 
I ski in the Midwest, so the snow does get quite "firm." The rep is trying to talk me in to them, he seems to think I'd be even faster on those than GS skis. I don't know. They seem like they would be too turny. 17 vs. 21m radius. I tried skiing my slaloms in a nastar course.... I was a full second slower. And don't try to talk me into anything other than volkls!!!!
post #5 of 26
Well I bought the Volkl T50's this year and absolutely love them, I can't say enough good things about them. But they are definately not GS race skis. I like the Salomon Equipe 10V's for that, maybe even the Elan Integra 9x, I personally find the Dynastar 63's a bit heavy but the when I tried them I could only get a pair that were a bit long for me, also it was really shitty slushy snow.

If you need all purpose skis that want to go everywhere then get the T50's and maybe get good demo's for race days if you are not racing that much. Unless you're rich, in which case buy 2!
post #6 of 26
I would like to try to convince you to get anything but volkls. I skied their line last spring... and i was not impressed in the least. By comparison to the other race skis ont he market the volkls are at the bottom of the food chain. Their stock skis are very good skis, but their retail race skis are dead, too stiff, lifeless, heavy baords that dont have enough edghold to say so. Fischer, Elan, or Salomon are going to be the top brands for racing this season i think. Try other brands. You will be surprised how bad your volkls feel after skiing on some of the other companies skis - deffinitly fischer, and Salomon, the elan might be too much ski for what youre doing. As the Principal (Old Catholic Nun) of my highschool used to say "try it you'll like it." (We never argued with her)
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
I don't know what stuff you are smoking, but it must be pretty damn good. Can you send some my way?
post #8 of 26
I'd be smoking yer volkls [img]tongue.gif[/img] I have a feeling that regardless of the blatant evidence some will be headed your way. They arent bad skis per say... but compared to the skis on the market that really shine, the volkls just dont compare. Just give some toher stuff a whirl (unless youre getting a rediculously good deal on the Volkls).
post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 
Volkls are the only skis I've owned since 1988. I do get a ridiculously good deal, but thats not why I ski them. Every year I try as many skis as I can, and I really don't think anything is in the league with volkl. Maybe Atomic. And Nordica (believe it or not) is the real deal. A lot of it is which ski matches up best with your individual skiing style. My technique happens to be perfect. If I was quite a bit sloppier, maybe I would need something more forgiving like a fischer or salomon.
post #10 of 26
In the past six years I have gone tested skis for a shop here in Mammoth, and Volkl has always had a great line, top to bottom. This year that did not seem to be the case. The V, Elplosive, G4, Five Star, Four Star, were all very well liked. But, the Vertigo Motion, Carver Motion, and most of the mid to lower end skis did not seem up to Volkls usual standards. The Carver Motion especially seemed like a lifeless dog. The 163 Vertigo Motion felt exactly the same as the 163 G3, but in longer lengths, it seemed much less responsive. This was also the first time that some of them were tuned badly, this was the reps fault, but Volkl has perhaps the best ski out of the wrapper reputation in the biz. Very odd.

Personally, I really dug the Five Star, it seems like these days with the FIS putting big restrictions on sidecut, that race skis are not as much fun as some of the not leagal skis. It also seems like "skiercross" skis often offer the best combination of race ski feel in a ski that skis weel all mouintain. Last year, at the Rossi '03 intro day at June Mtn, I skied nest years Roosi race stock SL and GS skis. They were a total blast. Of course the rep was unsure if they would be legal when the new FIS rules came out. Sure enough, those skis are now illegal, they have to much shape. Oh well, I wonder if the legal skis will be as much fun? I doubt it, especially if I have to go longer.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Actually, I agree with you on that one. I tried quite a few of their new skis last spring. Their GS ski is totally dialed, though. If I'm not mistaken, I believe this is the 4th season in a row that their GS ski has been unchanged in shape or construction. Why fix what ain't broke? I think Fischer has been through 6 or 7 total reworks in that same time period.
post #12 of 26
Okay, the Salomon skis that i ski on are not soft or more forgiving than your shelf model volkls, sorry to break it to you. The the fischer race line this year is anything but forgiving. And when i say race i MEAN race... stock or race room skis. I don't understand why so many people are so hung up on Volkl, the skis really arent that great - at least the ones ive skied.

About your technique, thats a pretty bold statement, saying youre technique is prefect... Most skiers who are truly talented dont come out and say it, its always the ones who cant stack up to the real skiers on the hill that you see and hear talking.

As for the rossignol GS ski, it was changed last season and reworked to include the pps plate and a new shape. Ive never skied the stock rossi GS skis, but id amagine they are a nice ride - probly very smooth ride - i found that with the regular model.

So U.P. Racer where do you ski at typically??
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Ahhhh, I knew you'd be back Didn't you notice my emoticon when I said I had perfect technique? Just havin'fun... I have skied the race stock in both the Fischer and Salomon, so we are talking about the same thing. And you are right, they aren't soft and forgiving like their store models. (once again, havin' fun) They just don't work as well for me as my (race stock) Volkls. By the way, there is very little difference between Volkl's Race stock and store models. The construction and sidecut is identical. So for the vast majority of recreational racers who don't have access to race stock skis, Volkl has the highest level ski available. I've often wondered why so many companies make their race stock skis so radically different. The K2 Mach G race stock doesn't even resemble the store model. Different dimentions, different construction, cap vs. vertical sidewall, etc.

To answer your question,I ski in the upper peninsula of Michigan, at a small (600 foot vertical), race oriented, area. The reason I'm still into racing at age 32 is because the hill is small and can get somewhat boring (and I'm too old for the terrain park) If I would have grown up in Colorado or Utah, I may have never started racing. I also ski one week per year at Jackson Hole. (in-laws live in Driggs,ID)
post #14 of 26
Hey U.P., do mind if I pile on? [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

I only skied Volkl up until shaped race skis took over. Remember the neon yellow P9's...ahh the good ol' days of 205cm slalom skis.

Anyway, in today's market it's foolish to be loyal to one brand unless you get a good deal from the company. The fact that a manufacturer often revamps their race line shows that they are incorporating new technology and ideas into their product with the intent of making it faster. I could care less if my skis were made by Fisher-Price and had pink bunny rabits on them as long as they were the best of the bunch. One year a ski may suck, the next it may be top of the heap.

That being said, last years and this years Volkl's are way behind some of the other RETAIL race skis. I spent 3 weeks at Timberline this summer and just came back from Chile. I had to chance to skis pretty much all of this years models in gates, so I'm not talking out of my a$$. The Volkl GS is very tame, well behaved, real easy to ski and very forgiving. Those qualities make for a homerun cruiser, but not a GS racer. If you want an off-the-rack GS ski check out the Elan GSX and Stockli GS. Brother, I promise you those sticks will give you more than you bargained for. If you have the strength and skill to handle them you'll be in for very pleasant surprise. If not, prepare to be punished. Those two skis are so freakin' smooth and powerful with such wicked "snap" that they make the Volkl's seem like toys. Trust me. This years Nordica SL and GS are also some serious boards (the sl more so than the GS).

As an aside, I did not have any of my racers on Volkl's for the past two years. Last year they were on Stockli, Salomon and Atomic. This year I already have 3 pair of Elans for 4 of my kids. One of the kids, who is a better skier than you or I will ever be, was offered his choice of gear last season, and needless to say Volkl did not get the nod. I'm sure their stock stuff is more than competetive with the other companies, but not the retail gear.

As a competitive racer you owe it to yourself to ski the other offerings. After doing so, I would bet anything that the Volkl GS will be towards the bottom of the list. Don't listen to me or your rep. Just compare them to the real-deals. The clock doesn't care about brand loyalty.

PS. If you're considering the Supersport you might as well get the GS. They are quite close in performance.

[ September 28, 2002, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: +mike+ ]
post #15 of 26
This years Volkl Stock Slalom actually has sandwich and vertical sidewall construction, and what looked to be a different shape. I was lookin at a pair wednesday night. looked like a fun ski though, ill probly get on a pair before the end of the season, i also get killer deals on Volkl skis [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] .
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Hey Greg, going back a couple of posts, I thought truly talented skiers didn't talk about how good they were. How did you decide on the I.D. "Helluvaskier?"

Where do you ski? Sounds like you're still way into competitive skiing. USSA? College? Just curious.
post #17 of 26
Check yer PM
post #18 of 26
Things might work different in Canada but unless you are on a provincial team,ranked in the top 5 to 10 in the country or on the national team you are not getting race stock skis(by race stock I mean the real deal world cup model). I know that Fischer,Rossignol,Salomon,and Atomic offer a race ski and a race rack ski and when compared to the skis that athletes are on they are anything from similar to nowhere near the same. If you are at a World Cup race compare your Volkls to the one the athletes are on, at Lake Louise last year Picabo Streets skis were nowhere near the skis available to even ranked competitive skiers.
For as long as I can remember there have been people that have claimed to need or want race room skis or race stock skis and I haven't been able to figure it out. It has become even more apparent the last few years when in side by side testing a lot of the time the retail ski is faster through a typical masters or recreational course because it is so much more user friendly than the WC ski(but not FIS legal because of width,height or sidecut dimensions).
I haven't compared any Volkls recently because their race program in Canada doesn't exist(and it used to be quite dominant). But somebody mentioned their low to mid range skis not performing very well. The next time you are in the shop compare them to the low end Fischers you might find them quite similar in all aspects. At one point last season Salomon,Fischer and Volkl all had the same ski on the wall with their respective graphics but made in the Fischer factory.
As usual I ramble but if you are looking for a race ski support a company that supports your Alpine Team and a lot of the time you will get the performance you need or want.
post #19 of 26
I have race room Salomon GS skis (in compliance with all FIS rules) and they are the same ski as (i believe) what the women skied on last year on the world cup. My Elans are also race room skis, but there are only minute differences between the Elans i have and the Elans that are being skied on the world cup. The biggest difference is the size of the edges (the version i have is able to be tuned more times (more edge)).

As for getting the exact world cup skis that the top racers use - its not possible because often they have skis specially made for them. I have had the opportunity to ski on a few World cup skis and they are far superior to a shelf ski.

My GS skis this year dont the same shape, flex, construction, or length of the shelf model salomon GS ski - nor do they have the same prolinks. They are probably not the same as the world cup skis, but they are pretty damn close; flex #'s on them the radius printed on them, and a little thing that says "in compliance with FIS rules" etc. I was told they were a lot more ski than the shelf model, but they are not a WC stock. Most racers dont specify the difference between the race stock we get (race room skis) and the the actual WC race stock.

Salomon for example has the shelf skis, race room skis (what i have), and the WC race stock skis. The race room skis are usually similar to what the WC skis were the season before - but remain a season ahead of what is being sold on the shelves. This years race room sl skis are a totally different ski from the self model 3V. The side cut is 110/64/94 versus 106 in the tip, and there are of course no prolinks on the ski - and you can get it in nearly any length you want from 150 to 160.

As for supporting a company - thats why i ski Elan (and they are fast) but mostly because they offer my team killer deals on race room skis.

post #20 of 26
What is wrong with you guys? Atomic! Atomic! Atomic!

You guys are sniveling about 2nd rate skis. Salomon, Rossi, Fischer & Volkl ( I skied Volkl's for 25 years before switching to Atomic) I have skied them all( My 39th season this year!)

Do the names Eberharter,Maier, Rahlves, Scholpy just to name a few mean anything to you guys!

22 Olympic gold Medals in 2002
Seven consecutive Overall Men's World Cup Titles
3 consecutive X-games Skiercross titles

Absolutely the best performing skis in all categories!

1. 10.22 GS, new GS 11 is even better!

2. 9.16 & 9.12 SL & the new SL 11 is even better!

3. SX 11 Supercross!!!!!! I have not skied it but have been told it may be one of the finest skis ever built!

4. R:EX (10.20Ex) Another Ski that all else is in it's category is judged by!

5. R:11(11.20)I ski on these most of the time in a 180cm. A race ski on hardpack, Busts crud, skis powder. Even ran GS on them a couple times last year, Fabulous all around ski

I have skied the World cup Salomon Slalom,(Actually not bad) The Rossi World Cup GS(no flex under foot), Volkl P40 & P50 slalom(Very smooth, Too smooth), Rossi Power 9 Slalom(couldn't keep them in contact with snow, but the only Rossi I have ever even remotely liked). Rossi Bandit XX(JUNK!), Volkl Vertigo's(Skied on them for 4 years. The Atomic's ski circles around all of them.
The best ski Volkl made was the P30 RC Racing with the big round tip! It has been downhill since then!

Don't kid yourself, there is definetly something special to the Beta construction & the binding & plate combo. It is called FULL LONGITUDINAL FLEX WITH EXTREME TORSIONAL RIGIDITY! SOMETHING EVERY OTHER SKI YOU GUYS HAVE MENTIONED LACKS. They are all too stiff length wise underfoot in order to get torsionally rigid!

If you are on that goofy Salomon(I think it was the 2V gs from a year or two ago)with the tail wider than the tip & the bindings mounted screwy & you like them, I wonder about your skiing ability! Worst junk I have been on.

Anyway! 98% of a skis performance is the pilot! 2% is the gear!

Have Fun! Ski Fast!

Over & out!

Atomicman, skier formerly known as Volklman!
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
I hate to admit it, but those atomics probably are the best GS ski I've tried. But they are actually too much ski for me. ( that is a very difficult thing for me to admit) My Volkls feel perfect for me. They have never let me down, always have enough edge grip, even on the hardest snow, and I've always felt comfortable on them. The Atomics, (I can't believe I'm saying this) have almost too much edge grip and snap. I live on the edge in a course, and I'm afraid I'd kill myself on Atomics. You are totally right about the goofy Salomon's, though. How about the 10cm forward mounting position? What's up with that? (I know, Greg, the race room skis arent mounted like that, but still...)
post #22 of 26
Originally posted by U.P. Racer:
I hate to admit it, but those atomics probably are the best GS ski I've tried. But they are actually too much ski for me. ( that is a very difficult thing for me to admit) My Volkls feel perfect for me. They have never let me down, always have enough edge grip, even on the hardest snow, and I've always felt comfortable on them. The Atomics, (I can't believe I'm saying this) have almost too much edge grip and snap. I live on the edge in a course, and I'm afraid I'd kill myself on Atomics. You are totally right about the goofy Salomon's, though. How about the 10cm forward mounting position? What's up with that? (I know, Greg, the race room skis arent mounted like that, but still...)
post #23 of 26
Originally posted by U.P. Racer:
I hate to admit it, but those atomics probably are the best GS ski I've tried. But they are actually too much ski for me. ( that is a very difficult thing for me to admit) My Volkls feel perfect for me. They have never let me down, always have enough edge grip, even on the hardest snow, and I've always felt comfortable on them. The Atomics, (I can't believe I'm saying this) have almost too much edge grip and snap. I live on the edge in a course, and I'm afraid I'd kill myself on Atomics. You are totally right about the goofy Salomon's, though. How about the 10cm forward mounting position? What's up with that? (I know, Greg, the race room skis arent mounted like that, but still...)
[ September 28, 2002, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]
post #24 of 26
The new GS:11 is much more user friendly. Smoother & quieter and a lot easier to ski than the 10.22 & the shape of the SL;11 is not as radical as the 9.12. More between the 9.16 & the 9.12. Both skis are a big improvement. I have heard the new Supercross SX:11 would make a fabulous Masters, City League GS race ski!

I liked the GS:11 in a 181cm . I am 6'0 & 185lbs. withe the binding set 1 notch forward from center.

By the way I think you meant 10mm forward not 10 CM, you're right, the race stock ski is not mounted like that.

Good Luck with your season!

Over & out!

post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
I meant 10 CM!!! Take a close look at some 2v's. They are mounted almost dead center. Talk about goofy looking! The 3v's aren't like that, though.
post #26 of 26
Yeah the 2V's were mouned dead center. They took a different technique from other skis to ski on them. I'm currently selling a pair. They had too tight of a radius so every time i really hammered the turns they turned back uphill, which is bad in GS for those of you who dont ski it regularly. They also could only ski in the GS course because the tips would nosedive until they hit something hard to grip on.

Atomic makes a good race ski and always has, but you might want to notice the drop in wins that atomic has had on the WC in the alst few seasons. And also notice that companies like Salomon are catching up (it was salomon skis on the feet of the olympic DH gold medalist). Again I point out that the world cup atomics arent the same as your atomics. The GS ski has much less profound beta construction, vertical sidewalls i believe and a very very wide waist - something near 68mm. All the skiers i ski with that race on atomics are average racers, and average skiers. I know an atomic rep so I will be getting on some atomic skis this year, so i'll report back to you, but im willing to bet that their slalom wont touch Elan or Fischer's. The SX11 does intrigue me and may end up being my next all mountain ski - budget permitting.

Oh as far as insulting my ability, if your pride is at stake i dont think you want to go there. If you couldnt ski on the 2V i wonder about your ability - are you too far foreward or too far back to make them turn?? Ignorance is bliss huh. I'd love to compare just about any ski in my race quiver for this season to an atomic ski, i bet the atomics wouldnt be the ski of choice. Maybe I'll even change to atomic next year - but dont hold your breath. I ski on what i know is fast, plain and simple. I deffinitly give every ski i ski on a fair shot when i demo it, so ill report back when there is snow, regarding the prized atomics. And no, they deffinitly won't be too much ski.
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