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Settings on different bindings

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I have two pair of skis, newer Atomic Betaride 9.22 181cm(the red ones) with Atomic Xentrix 310 bindings and an old pair of Rossi Viper S 193cm(very straight) with Marker M41 bindings. Should the bindings be at the same DIN settings on both pairs of skis or does the length and sidecut of the ski affect the DIN? Also, are the toe- and heel-piece DIN settings supposed to be the same on each ski? Obviously both toe-pieces should have the same DIN as well as both heel-pieces, but do all four have to be the same setting?

After a binding check on the Rossi/Marker skis I noted that my toe-pieces were set to 6 and the heel piece was on 8. On the Atomics everything is set at 8. Please help me with the confusion. Thanks.

Talk less, ski more.
post #2 of 18
As for DIN. Din was created so that there would be a standard in the ski industry, all manufacturers put out their own chart tho they almost always have identical numbers, I've seen .5 variance once. TYPICALLY both toe and heel will be set to the same setting, but if the release rate is a bit off a tech will adjust the binding so that it falls into a passable range.

one question, did the shop show you the settings when you picked up the skis? You might check the paper work that the shop gave you with your skis, check the din's that the tech wrote on the work order. There sould not be a variance of 2din between heel and toe (in this case).<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Spyder (edited March 28, 2001).]</FONT>
post #3 of 18
Din is DIN is DIN. It SHOULD be consistent from LooK to Marker to Atomic to Salomon. THat is what the standard is all about. Now there is slight varience from each manufacturer on the suggested set up. But for the most part if you ski an 8 on Atomics you should be an 8 on Markers.
Now one part of this is that when a shop sets your bindings they test them. So an end result could have either one toe or heel piece set on a 7.5 instead of an 8 because of the way the binding tested out.

Best way to make sure all is well is to have the bindings tested.
post #4 of 18
DIN settings are an attempt at making all bindings have similar release force at the same settings.
However, My brand new Rossi bindings toes tested at a 8 on binding tester (robot) when set at 6.
Sometimes the heels or toes have to be set at different settings for maximum retention/release.
post #5 of 18
It is true that toe and heel should be set at the same DIN. A ski shop uses your height, weight, boot sole length, ability level, and age if over 50 to input into a chart to determine DIN setting. These settings are designed to allow a low speed release and many agressive fast skiers find a need to increase the setting.

For instance, the chart tells me to set my DIN at 6.5, but I have my Markers set at 8 and my older ESS bindings are at 9. However it is not advisable to go to higher settings unless you are experiencing releases when you don't want them or don't expect them.
post #6 of 18
Spyder and Deno are correct. If you experience release too often and in the same conditions you might increase the DIN setting but only by a 1/2 point increment until you no longer release during those conditions.
The problem I have experienced is ego! Many guys think that a higher DIN means they are a better skier. They think if others see their DIN settings too low they will be thought of as a wuss. Sooner or later these guys are taking a trip to the hospital for ACL surgery!
Skier I, II, or III is not nescerally one's ability but how one skis. I'm a III skier but I set mine to a II skier. My skis don't come off escept when they are supposed to. I just don't do III too much because I'm out of shape, and I'd poop out 1/2 way through the day. Then I'd be staring at a spendy lift ticket I can't use! If you're a III skier, by all means set them that way. But don't crank them up after they've been set at the shop because you're a cool dude and you don't want your skis to come off. Check out an article by Tod Murcheson at snotech.com called edoski. He doesn't discuss dins but the article is worthwhile. Boy, I hope I didn't tweak anyone's nose here!
post #7 of 18
post #8 of 18
jyarddog: The most common injuries related to excess DIN are ankle sprains and breaks.
<hr>A shop will do a release check before sending your skis out the door. They simply do not just look at a chart, say "this guy is an 8" and set the bindings accordingly. Often a binding will read 8, but it might release check at a 10 or a 6 for that matter. Most of the time the difference is much smaller. It'll read 8 and release at 7.5 or 8.5. This shouldn't be the case with most new bindings out of the box and new boots, but is common with bindings that are a couple of years old or ones that have experienced some wear and tear. It may not be the binding at all, its possible that your boot is beat to crap and thus it significantly affects the binding's release characteristics. If your settings vary, your best bet is to ask the shop that set your binding or, if need be, get the bindings rechecked. 8 doesn't always mean '8'.

- Paul
post #9 of 18

For the MOST part you are correst but for park skiing the din's can change a bit to accomodate for a different type or release, I asked the instructor at Vermont Mechanics workshop if they were trying to develop a "park" type setting, and he said that it's in the works. Basically this will be a higher setting on the toe than the heel.

But also as skierpaul said, at the shop we do go by what's on the chart to start with but after testing the bindings they sometimes end up with a 1/2 din variance or so.

Injuries also incurred are shin fractures above the boot line.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Spyder (edited April 08, 2001).]</FONT>
post #10 of 18
SkierPaul is correct. During an ASTM test the bindings might release to soon or late. There is a test range, inspection range and in use range. It must fall within the in use range at least. Readjusting the foward pressure sometimes helps, especially with the forward release test. I am Marker certified. I recently retested my bindings - M51 Turbo SC. They were in the in use range but were at the high end, releasing a bit tight. I backed them off ever so slightly; hardly even noticeable. They now release when they are supposed to (like when I'm not paying attention what I'm doing. <G>)And they stay on and keep me center-ski rebound very nicely.
SkierPaul is very knowledgeable. BTW- I quickly found out... Drilling Volants? Stainless steel drill bit. Use the standard 4.1's and it's bye bye drill bit after one set of Volants! Sheesh!

Life's a pain... then you nap. Cat philosphy
post #11 of 18
I have my din above suggested but not at idiot level. I start out @ suggested & then notch em up as needed when I release.
1 caveat though, I always have my heels 1/2 a step higher than my toes.

I have done this for years. Anecdotal advice from some good skiers who helped me along & deduction from 2 people I saw front load their bindings on powder days who blew their knees. One I even warned & then I felt like a jinx.
am I the only one left beside my 4 Aspen friends that does this?

baile para nieve
post #12 of 18
For the volants you can get the bits to last longer if you drill the skis very slowly with alot of pressure, also I have found that carbide bits are the best, and they last forever with regular skis. well at least alot longer than reg steel bits.
post #13 of 18
Ti, did I understand you correctly that you have your heel set 1/2 a din setting higher than your toe for powder skiing ? This is suppose to prevent blown knees especially when skiiing powder. Please explain further.

Thank you
post #14 of 18
Spyder- Thanx for the carbide tip. Next season I will ask my store to get some of these. We had a guy working for us who was a snoboarder, a good one, but for some reason he thought he could drill skis. Someone showed him how, but he wasn't certified! That always yanked my chain, seeing him drill when the other guy or I was supposed to, us being certified. So here he was having a hard time with these Volants. Now... when I don't have answers, I go ask someone who does! I was a mechanic for 27 years, many classes, own shop, ASE certified. If ya don't know, ya ask! Dat's how ya learn! right? So I called another shop to find out about Vollants. I ended up help this guy as much as possible and finally got them mounted, but I woud not sign off on them! No way! This guy then grabbed another pair of skis. I gently took them from him saying that I would handle these. He no longer works for us. Whew! Do yuo have any scare stories? <G> Bob

Life's a pain... then you nap. Cat philosphy
post #15 of 18
Phil: the carbide bits are what's recommended but you can drill them with a steel bit, it just takes time, pressure, and will burn out the bit fairly quickly.

As for stories, I had one of the guys in the shop drill 2 pr of K2 three's up a few yrs back, not certified, and he forgot that they have a toe line instead of a center line... when I came into work the next day I saw an interesting pr of skis on the rack... needless to say we ate two pr.
post #16 of 18
Seems you want the toe to release first, or that is at least the logic I was fed about it. It seems pretty common practice out here. No pre releases but come out when you want to. hoping one of these tech guys could give some insight.
It may be a wives tale based on the fact that front loading is bad so unbalance the other way, I dont know works for me.

baile para nieve
post #17 of 18
I do the same as ti. based on long time skiers here in UT.
my heel is always 1/2 higher than my toe.
is this not a good thing? I have never had binding probs releasing or not releasing when they should.
Marker m51 & logic on my 2 main pairs. both race bindings on all mountain skis..
post #18 of 18
One thing I can't believe that I didn't mention, when we test up skis the typically toe settings are measured in tens of newton meters and the heels are measured in hundreds of newton meters. so the heel settings are already calibrated to be at a higher setting than the toe, even tho an 8 is an 8.
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