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MA - medium moguls on straight skis

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Moguls (1.7MB, mp4, works in QuickTime)

Mogulsavi (1.7MB, avi, lesser quality - added in edit in hope that more people can watch the video)

This is footage of me in soft, medium-sized moguls on my old (straight) 190cm K2 Extremes. Ignore the fluorescent bases and the jacket, this really is only 18 month old footage!

I have just bought myself my first pair of shaped skis, 168cm Elan M555 (108,70,98). I haven't had the chance to ski many shaped skis. But I demo 'ed these the last time I skied. And for the first time I started thinking my old planks just weren't as much fun.

I am very keen for any constructive criticism. And in particular for any pointers on what I should be keeping in mind when I try adjusting to my new boards.


post #2 of 16
If you are "ego cruising", this was a great video to post, I love it!
The new skis will make more of the turn for you, and you can experiment with turning on any part of the bump you want. The quickness that you have on your old skis will be harder to maintain, at least at first. Got any more video?
post #3 of 16
what program plays teh mp4 video?
post #4 of 16
Real one wanted to upgrade itself and I let it. The video still doesn't play, but now I have a new bunch of crap on my computer: .
post #5 of 16
Quicktime will do it.
post #6 of 16
Some quick turns. Some things I like. Great extension down the backside of each mogul. You are keeping the skis on the snow the whole time. GREAT. It would be nice if you used that to bit more advantage by carving your turns instead of windshield wiper-ing into the top of each bump. It would be more helpful to work on that skill out of the bumps first and then bring it back here.

The only definite suggestion I can think of for now is to work on your left hand pole plants. They are late and you are allowing that hand to be dragged behind you pretty badly. Your right hand pole plants are better, but that hand gets pushed back and to the side a little more than is great also.

Work on driving your hands forward down the fall line and don't let them get pulled back...and get your left pole plants quite a bit sooner. Attack with the pole plants. One thing that helps me a lot is to make sure my pole plants are NOT on the face of the mogul, but rather on the top or even better down the backside(downhill side) of the bump. The further down the hill you can reach with the basket..do it.

There is something else bugging me about what I see, but I can't put my finger on it yet. You're a tall and slender guy..so I could just be fooled by that. Anyway, the pole plant advice stands. Definitely some quick turns you got there.
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys - keep 'em coming

Thanks for trying bears. First time I've posted video on the web, and mp4 gave much better compression than the first format I tried (QT?). I didn't realise that mp4 wasn't more universal. Is there a format you guys prefer? (I have now added an avi version to the first post)

Sorry mate. Real is a massive pain. IIRC the link near the bottom of this page helped me out a few years ago. Not sure if it's still relevant.

Definitely hoping to learn to carve new-school! I wasn't too bad at it on my old planks when I concentrated on the groomers, but can really see the windscreen-wiper effect big time when I watch my video again.

The pole plants is a bit of a family failing - my younger brother gets in twice as many turns as me and lets his arms swing out and back twice as far. Thanks for the tip.

Keen to hear if you work out what else is bugging you, as the first two points are the two things I was pretty sure I'd hear. The third thing might be what unlocks all the secrets for me.

And I don't know about 'tall and slender' - I'm not quite 5'9" and 165lbs (although I was probably closer to 155 in the video). Must be the slimming effect of the ten year old jacket
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Miles B,

I only have three pieces of footage of me skiing, and they were taken on the same trip in similar conditions.

But, having thoroughly enjoyed trying to undertand the MA of others' footage, I'll be sure to try and get some new footage of me skiing on my new 555s this coming (southern hemisphere) winter.

I'll post something from the groomed stuff too, and you guys can have a field day deconstructing the first efforts of a legs-locked-together old-schooler.

Thanks again,

post #9 of 16

You mentioned legs locked together...and I think maybe that is the thing that was buggin' me. Your boots aren't neccessarily locked together, but I think your legs are so glued together as to make the two legs function as one twisting leg...rather than two independent legs. I am an advocate of a narrower stance than many around here would be comfortable with, but for me, narrow stance means 8-12 inches when running straight (wider when leaned over in a turn)...but it could get as wide as 18-20 inches too depending on what happens or I've seen video frames with my skis practically overlapping each other. So it depends, But I think 8-12 inches on average most of the time (running straight) is what I would consider a narrow stance...and others will argue this point...but I have no problem with that kind of stance.....


If your feet (OR LEGS) are locked together into one mechanism...then you need to conciously widen your stance until you get better leg independence and then possibly come back to a narrow stance again with two independent legs. The point about how wide a stance should be is very debatable, but I don't think the point about independent leg action is debatable. Again, this is something to work on the groomers...and there is a lot to work on there...related to what you do with inside ski, outside ski, etc at various points of a turn. In my humble opinion, all of that needs to be brought back to the bumps as well, except for perhaps in the bumps you will have a narrower stance then you might on the groomers. But narrow does NOT mean legs locked together or feet locked together (even if it looks that way). It means two independent feet, ankles, knees and thighs connected to one hip with profoundly different actions going on with each one nearly all the time.

If that means slowing it down a bit and skiing with a wider stance, even in the bumps, then do it a while. Don't bring your legs back to narrow again until you can ski with a narrow stance and your legs acting independently of each other. You might even try bring them back to narrow but make sure there is always at least an inch of daylight between them to promote the independence.

cheers, good luck with the new skis.

Or you can buy a mono-ski and have at it.. B-)

post #10 of 16

AVI codec

Google the latest K-Lite codec package - The avi wouldn't work for me until I upgraded to the latest version.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Has anyone found any good sites on the web with moguls skiing footage?

Or even stuff posted in these forums (I have looked but I find the search function implementation on this board isn't that great).

I'd love to see some video of moguls being skied a bit better than I can. I'm pretty sure it would help me better identify how I can try to address the suggestions Steve has made.

I love watching the world class guys and gals but the gulf in standard is too great for me to take much away from them.

post #12 of 16
www.mogullogic.com has some good footage of bumpers
post #13 of 16

This was posted last year, the skier remains unknown.
post #14 of 16
The comments I have made are not really "mogul" specific. In fact I think you already do a lot of things "right" in the bumps that many many other skiers do not. You're balanced, you extend well into the troughs, etc.. The things I noticed most likely are present in your groomed run skiing also. it would really help us if we saw some video of that. In fact, I'm 100% confident that 39 people will respond with suggestions after you submit groomed run footage. The leg independence and pole plant timing, hands forward..that is just basic skiing skills. I personally think you should get out of the bumps, work on those along with a bunch of other specific skills that will come to light when you get out of the bumps, then bring new skills back to the bumps later.

I also think its better to view some solid mogul skiers with a little bit slower rythmn to see what they are doing. But frankly, I think you will be distracting yourself by focusing on mogul skiers right now. If I were you I would get back to the groomers, and focus on new skiing techniques that involve a lot more real carving. You have a lot of natural bump talent, with good balance, quick reflexes, good eye for lines, good absorbtion skills, etc.. All of that is going to come back and make you a wicked bump skier like you can't imagine if you go focus on the carving skills on the groomers first for a while.

Incidentally, the usa guy that won mens bronze for moguls...that asian dude...between his two runs...they asked him about the fact that he took a different line then everyone else. His comment was that he knows how to carve his skis through the bumps and a lot of guys don't. He said that line required carving to get through it and he felt he was actually one of the few guys competing that even knew how to carve through the bumps and grab that line. Just an interesting comment...

Its really hard to watch those guys and learn....and easy to learn WRONG by watching them actually if you are not at a very high mogul level already.

That video that someone submitted is interesting..he is also a pretty quick turner like you...very similar.. However I do see a bit more leg independence in his skiing...his skiis are carving. Its definitely a better example, but to an untrained eye...it may look so close to similar that its hard for you to figure out how to improve. I think getting back to groomers and focus on carving...this will exagerate issues and provide a place for you to work on fundamental skills that you can bring back to the bumps and you will end up looking more like this guy.

Don't feel bad about going back to the groomers. When I was going through higher level certification...our examiner had us doing all kinds of silly exercises with awkward snowplow positions..(they were not easy to do and were not the same exercises given to beginners, they were designed specifically to focus on very subtle edging and pressure control skills for us so called "experts"). We spent days and days and days doing stuff like that way before we touched a single bump run...and to be honest...after a few runs in the bumps they went right back to fundamental skill development on groomers for us. And this was classes full of experienced ski instructors. Moral of the story, going to easier slopes and working on fundamentals is important at all levels of skiing.
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 

Thanks Bears

Thanks for the link - exactly the sort of skiing I was hoping to see.

Thanks for your very considered posts.

I am so keen to ski right now. I'm even getting excited about trying out some stuff on the groomers! Sadly in Melbourne tomorrow it is going to be 34C (~93F) so not much chance of that anytime soon.

I will definitely try and get some new footage this winter, on the groomers : and in the bumps, in the hope that I can get some more great feedback and tips. (Sorry Steve, but I'm not willing to sacrifice too much time in the bumps just to become a better skier.)

I will say right now that I am a better bump skier than I am on-piste. I have only skied a few days a year for the past ten or twelve years, so haven't wanted to waste much time on the groomers.

In the scheme of things I'm not too bad for an old-schooler on the groomed runs. But I probably commit the same sins out of the bumps that I do in them. People with an untrained eye say I look 'neat', or 'effortless'. But I'm sure I stand out like a sore thumb to any instructor that notices me from the chair. I've only had one group lesson in the past 15 or 18 years, and I've never done a gates run. I suspect on a gates course I would get thrashed by lots of skiers that wouldn't be able to follow my line through a tight bumps run. But I'm itching now to try and bring myself 'up to speed', and start really carving my turns.

So much to learn. So little money. So little time. So long to wait ...
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 

Another question ...

Not sure of the etiquette on this, so feel free to ignore this question:

Does our unidentified skier (from MilesB's post) have a similar pole plant problem to my own?

When I look at the footage I can see his skis carve the turn a lot, lot more than I currently do, and that his legs are working more independently. But to this very untrained eye, his pole plants (especially his right hand) seem to be quite wide, quite high (not down the hill on the backside of the bump) and not very assertive.

(I am only interested in this from the point of view of developing my eye and my skiing. I hope the skier concerned wouldn't take this comment the wrong way. FWIW I wish I could ski like that, and I am hoping this thread will help me get some of the way there.)
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