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Need Advice re:possibly defective equipment

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll start with general discussion.

Three times this season my left ski has released for no apparent reason. I got new boots at the beginning of this season and the shop adjusted my boots to my bindings. I have never had a problem before this season. After it happened twice, I had them rechecked to make sure they fit right. Once again this past Monday it happened again and, unfortunately, as a result of the fall, I broke my wrist and my season is likely over. I was just skiing along and looked down and my ski was gone and bang, crash, tumble, crack.

I am worried that either my bindings are broken (this is their 4th season) or my boots aren't fit to them properly. I am scared to get back on them before having the whole set-up checked. The question is where do I go? Do I send them to the binding manufacturer, if so should I have an attorney first? Do I bring them to a local shop?

Any advice would be most appreciated!

Thanks and take some turns for me,
~Skiminker
post #2 of 24
should be in the gear section. I'll move it.

As far as where to go? take it to good local shop. Not sure where you had the original work done but make sure they have the proper release testing equipment. More advanced shops have a machine that actually pulls your boot out of the binding or snaps your boot out of the binding and records digitally how much force was required to release the binding.

Do you know if it was a toe release or heel release?

Possiblities are incorrect settings, not enough forward pressure, din set in correctly, poor mating surface between binding and boot.

Sorry to hear about your season ending injury.. I'll make some turns for you!.

Take care Minker...

DC
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
I got the work done at Elite Feet at Squaw, I am sure they know what they are doing. Which is why I wonder if there is something wrong inside.

I literally was skiing along and felt off balance, looked down and my ski was gone. After I fell, my ski was easily 10-15 feet above me. It was strange. I have no idea if it was a heel or toe release.
post #4 of 24
Sorry to hear about your injury.

If they're coming off that easily, without you noticing, then you ought to be able to twist/pop out of them while standing still. Try it. If the left comes loose a lot easier, then perhaps they are messed up in some way.

Did you actually pay to have the bindings calibrated/tested, or did they simply adjust the fit?
post #5 of 24
Wow! That is strange. Do you remember going over any bumps or anything before hand? Do you remember clicking into them? Could a chunk of ice have caused them to close, but not close properly on your boot? I would give the binding a thorough examination, and turn it every wich way including loose. I suggest you take it to a good shop and express your concerns.
post #6 of 24
Also, while a defective binding or boot is a defective binding or boot, it would help (at least slightly) to know what kind of bindings and boots you're using.
Sorry to hear about your injury. My sister was practicing riding switch (snowboarding) and fell and broke her wrist last season. It's the pits. Mend well.
post #7 of 24
Most unexplained releases are improper forward pressure on the binding. What equipment is involved? I ask, not because we should blame a particular brand, but because we can then ask you to put the boots in the skis, and make some observations on the settings.

Ghost's quesions are also worth responding to. Also, I'm curious where you were skiing and what the slope conditions were.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMinker
I have no idea if it was a heel or toe release.
If it was a toe release, you would have had to cock the heal t get back in, it it was a heel release, the heel piece would have been readt to step back into the binding. Does that help you remember?
post #9 of 24
I don't remember if the ski shop attached to elite feet has a binding / ski shop in it. Also it all depends on the tech and if they were just making a size adjustment or were doing a full safety check at the same time. Elite feet has great boot fiiters but was it one of the "great" guys or just a shop jockey that handled the binding set.

If it was a rental shop person that's also different than one of the techs. Depending on the binding some of the rental guys may not have the knowledge to check all the other settings (forward pressure, toe height etc) Most of the rental bindings are configured differently in order to facilitate quicker and frequent binding changes.
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
1. Equipment
Boots: Nordica Beast 12's
Bindings: Salomon 800's

2. Shop
Elite Feet, where my boots were purchased, machine fitted by one of the owners, and checked again by machine by one of the guys in Elite Feet, not an owner, but definitely an Elite Feet guy, not a rental shop guy.

3. The release
I still have no idea if it was heel or toe release. Honestly, I was so shaken and mortified that I fell and had a yard sale right under the lift that I scrambled to pull it together and get out of eyeshot of the lift! I still don't even remember anything between looking down and saying where's my ski then taking 1 or 2 more turns...and picking up my poles (or trying to).

4. Conditions
Spring conditions, but plenty of coverage. Alpine Meadows just skier's left of the Sherwood chair on the face. That perfect black run with gentle bumps/piles of snow on the verge of being moguls, when the morning's hard snow has had the precise amount of sun and it softens to perfection. The run on the warm blue bird day, when you have the hill to yourself that we all dream about, you know the one! I'll still remember that run as perfect and amazing, right up until the fall.
post #11 of 24
If you ask me its the bindings. I'm not a fan of Salomon's non-driver toe pieces like the 800 has. The 800 doesn't have the retention range the driver toes have thus they are more susceptible to pre-releases even when all the adjustments are set properly.
post #12 of 24
For a $150 item, it's not worth messing with. Buy some new bindings and have them installed and adjusted by someone you have confidence in.
post #13 of 24
AGREED! Your health and mental piece of mind is worth much more than $150.
post #14 of 24
And don't sell the old bindings.... toss them in the trash.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottys
For a $150 item, it's not worth messing with. Buy some new bindings and have them installed and adjusted by someone you have confidence in.

I'm getting new bindings regardless, but if my arm is broken and my season is over b/c the current one's didn't work properly, then the mfgr should be paying the $2000+ for the medical bills.

Can you recommend a good pair for me? I'll do a web search, buy them and have them installed locally, upon recommendation from some Tahoe folks.
I haven't bought bindings in a while and have no idea what's out there and good.
post #16 of 24
You're going to get lots of recommendations, so here's one. I have used Salomon, Marker, and Tyrolia (some on Head/Elan/Fischer integrated systems) in recent years. The Markers have been OK, but I have been absolutely delighted and impressed with the Tyrolias -- all LD 12 RailFlex variants. The diagonal heel release is ingenous and works well -- gives you a lot of leeway before releasing. I have had zero premature releases. In a couple "oh sh*t" moments, they stayed on me and allowed me to recover without crashing. I am 6-1 225 lb and run a DIN of 8, since I have 326mm boot soles.

I like the design and engineering of Tyrolia, which is simple and pretty robust. And what I like best about the RailFlex variants is that they are easy to mount at home and set (only do this if you're comfortable). Of all the bindings I have installed/used over the years, I have been most pleased with the Tyrolias as a DIY ski tech.

If I had to ding Salomon for anything, it would be that many (perhaps all) of their bindings have multiple adjustments in the toe, for clearance/fit. The fewer adjustments the better in my opinion -- less to go wrong, and less to require calibration. I like the Markers and Tyrolias because you have one fwd pressure adjustment (heel) and one spring setting (each, heel and toe).
post #17 of 24
The problem is they adjusted your boots to your bindings, that might take a lot of grinding and, melting plastic and so forth, don't you think they adjusted your bindings to your boots
post #18 of 24
I wouldn't blame the binding maker as much as the ski shop. The 800 is a recreational binding an should be sold to non-aggressive skiers.

The binding I trust the most are last year's Rossignol Axial or Look Pivot bindings. (They are the same binding.) The jury is still out on whether this year's model is as good. My second choice would be Salomon 912 Ti bindings. Both my kids (who are in their 20s and ski extremely fast) use 912s and love them.
post #19 of 24
Another vote for Tyrolia et al. race bindings.
post #20 of 24
This might be absolutely nothing, but I've been wondering about leg length. I have had some unexplained prereleases with my left ski -- ALWAYS my left ski, even though I don't have a left and right ski. A few weeks ago, I found out my left leg is 2 cm longer than my right. Correlation isn't causality, but it made me wonder --

Since then I had my right footbed lifted about 1 cm, and I can tell a definite, and positive, difference in my skiing -- although my right hip has been KILLING me after skiing. I wonder if it has to do with all the years of compensating?

Anyway, just an idea ....
post #21 of 24

pebhas

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMinker
but if my arm is broken and my season is over b/c the current one's didn't work properly, then the mfgr should be paying the $2000+ for the medical bills.
First of all I am sorry you are hurt. I just don't see why you need a lawyer or why you feel your bindings are at fault. You were using an entry level/intermediate binding to ski black bumps. If I am reading your post corectly, the binding had been bench tested twice.

Get some bindings that are right for you and ski with a cast. You will be a better skier for it, no relying on your poles.

Get well soon
post #22 of 24

Binding release

You state your bindings are 4 years old. Possibility left ski binding has a fatigued spring and has caused one binding, i.e. left on the release easier than right binding. I had binding checked per ski school liability guy/policy and found at a DIN of 8 on each ski my left binding was actually releasing at about 6.75 and the right ski at 8 where it was set. Possibility. Sorry about wrist. I personally check my bindings each fall on the carpet with my wife standing\ on tail I go forward med/hard (always with a flexed knee) and heel should realease, also twist to inside with wife on front of ski once again keep knee flexed. From doing this for too many years I know what proper release should feel like, i.e., med hard-not too easy and not too hard or impossible.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMinker
I wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll start with general discussion.

Three times this season my left ski has released for no apparent reason. I got new boots at the beginning of this season and the shop adjusted my boots to my bindings. I have never had a problem before this season. After it happened twice, I had them rechecked to make sure they fit right. Once again this past Monday it happened again and, unfortunately, as a result of the fall, I broke my wrist and my season is likely over. I was just skiing along and looked down and my ski was gone and bang, crash, tumble, crack.

I am worried that either my bindings are broken (this is their 4th season) or my boots aren't fit to them properly. I am scared to get back on them before having the whole set-up checked. The question is where do I go? Do I send them to the binding manufacturer, if so should I have an attorney first? Do I bring them to a local shop?

Any advice would be most appreciated!

Thanks and take some turns for me,
~Skiminker
Nice. A tread about binding releases and there's no mention of:

- Weight
- Height
- Boot sole length
- Din setting
- Skier Level (1, 2, 3, 3+)

Tell us all those things, and we'll tell you if the settings jive. Then, have them checked by a good shop.

Oh, and why would a broken wrist stop your skiing...are you skiing on your wrist?
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
Nice. A tread about binding releases and there's no mention of:

- Weight
- Height
- Boot sole length
- Din setting
- Skier Level (1, 2, 3, 3+)

Tell us all those things, and we'll tell you if the settings jive. Then, have them checked by a good shop.

Oh, and why would a broken wrist stop your skiing...are you skiing on your wrist?
Not skiing on my wrist just can't make the 3+ hour drive to the mountains comfortably. Also, the doc said 4 weeks, no skiing - no way, have to let it heal w/out bumping it around/rotating it or I have to get a cast that goes up above my elbow. By then, Tahoe might be dry. Looking into a trip to Whistler in April though. This season has been so great, I don't want it to end!!

I'm learning some interesting new info from you all. First, after demoing the skis (K2 Mod X pros) on vacation in Colorado 4 season's ago, I did an extensive search for my skis at the end of the season, so I've had the set up for 3 seasons. I ended up finding the pair right here in SF at Lombardi sports. Because my old bindings were 6 years old, they insisted I get a new pair for my new skis. I trusted them to give me highend bindings that were appropriate for my, clearly, aggressive skis and told them how I ski and filled-out the paperwork clearly stating level 3 skier. Because it was a snap decision, I did not research the bindings and bought them based on the shop guy's recommendation. I had no idea they were such entry level bindings!! This is quite bothersome and I am feeling like a dope. However, they never gave me problems until this year. Meanwhile, this is why I want recommendations for my new bindings before I make a dumb mistake again.

I can't believe i am putting my stats out in public but...I'm 5'3, 155lbs and the din is set on 7. do I just tape measure the boot sole length?

Also, anyone know a reputible heli and/or cat operator up in Whistler for a day trip? Might have to do it to make up for lost time
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