Regarding Bode: You Are All Crazy! - Page 3

What LARS has or doesn't, has nothing to to with anything. Grow up, you sound like a 6 year old bickering wth his little brother.

NA, NA, NANA, NA

Besides, wouldn't you feel dumb if Lars turned out to be Mark Spitz or something?

Bennie Raich straddled a gate and DQ'd, too. He went out on the second slalom. That doesn't make him a washed up skier.

From what I have heard Bode now has millions in endorsements and advertising contracts. He obviously does not have the hunger or drive to win he once had. I think Tiger went thru the same phase when he became wealthy. Time will tell if bode has the drive and stamina of lets say the herminator or will he just fade away to be another has been and retire and fade away.

We all have seen his talent we would just like to see some focus at the job at hand. His antics make it seem like he doesn't even take himself seriously. And this is truly a waste of excelent talent! It seems it is trying to live the BS he spews to the press.

What next lines and shrooms in the start house?

Now that made me laugh!

Anyway, my take is this: I think the media are being idiotic (so what else is new?), and I think much of Bode's message is right on -- I like how he's able to say, "Hey, he just skied better than I did."

But I also think his actions send mixed messages. I think it's not beyond belief that's he's sabotaging his performances on purpose, and that bothers me. He loses TOO easy ... and when someone has a gift like he does, I don't know, it just seems wrong to treat it cavalierly.

But ... is he cavalier? I don't know. He acts like it, but then why does he devote his life to competition? He appears to be conflicted about it, and he needs to make up his mind. It's as if competition bothers him, or maybe he just wants it to look that way ....

It also bothers me that he's preaching this message of nonconformity and self-reliance, blah blah, and doing Nike commercials at the same time. Hel-lo? That bothers me most of all. He is using Corporate America to promote and sustain Bode Miller -- I mean, more power to him, if he can, but to me, his words are hollow.

LOL

It takes a lot to be consistent when you are pushing yourself to the max..some people can some cant.. bode seems to race every SL race at his max and seems like the probability of success when he pushes himself is low.. Tough s*it.. He made it to the team based on creds.. and there was no one else who could knock him out of the team..

A champ is a champ.. It doesnt matter if he finished 10 races and won the championships while no 2 finished all races.. he competed amongst the worlds elite and was able to win within established boundaries...

Benni Raich finished every single Gs & SL race last year and won the GS & SL titles.

sure... i didnt say it was unpossible(let the grammar wars continue) and i added things to my post since then to explain what i was getting at..

I agree 100% that anyone who wins a WC Downhill, SuperG, GS or SL deserves to be honoured as it is a incredible accomplishment given the differance between winning and loosing when timed. Common 0.001 of a second in some cases.

Even as a Canadian it frustrates me to see someone like Bode with obvious pure talent, that is so hit and miss.

The guy is amazing that there is no doubt, but if he were to reign in his wildness I think he could be one of the greatest ever.

I respect the guys that consistently get 4, 3, 2 because their talent is there to do it time and time again.

I see Bode as someone who lets is all hang out and when he gets lucky and makes it to the end he wins because he was willing to go nutso, but can't repeat that level of performance.

His competition uses their consistent performance to take them to the win.

so who is better the guy that gets lucky occasionaly or the guy who can do it run after run?

I think the question of who is better is a very broad and personal one.. Its not set in stone...

You do have a point that if he reins and skis at 90% he might win more.. What if he doesnt like to and if forced, he is doing something he doesnt want to and it will compromise his perfromance..

As you stated, you respect consitent top finishers.. I like the fact that Bode leaves nothing behind and goes all out.. Whatever floats our boats.. But Bode isnt just lucky he took that straighter line his competitor didnt, took extra risk and executed (albeit rarely)..

The only parallel I can think of right now, of a guy who consistently finished in the top5 all the time is David Coulthard and I hated that guy ..

For the record I equally dont like athletes who dominate... (Michael Schumacher, Federer) and I like flaky talented guys(Hakkinen, Goran(to an extent))..

if he doesn't like to, he is doing something he doesn't want to...

# 1) boo frikin hooo. who pays for him to be where he is? is he not taking up a spot for someone else who really does care, and is willing to perform for the better of his country who pays his way and partially made him.

How many athletes out there probably dispise him because of his who cares if I finish, I don't need to inspect the course attitude. As long as I win the odd race thats good enough. Great role model for the youngsters in the sport. Great role model for the sport period.

#2) there is enough pre-madona's in this world. He is am employee of a world class race organization.

Shouldn't he behave like one and act world class instead of world trash.

Give some of our Canadians, or the other under funded country ski teams his trainers, money, facilities, equipment and I suspect they would put out and actually care.

again he is a special athlete and deserves some recognition but his style is getting old and isn't producing medals. Move over butter there may be something better.

EDIT: after re-reading, sorry to come off so offensive, it's passion not anger at your post. I appreciate a good discussion and my post was not intended as a back lash at you Coug simply the "spectacle" of Bode.

I like what you said.

This is turning out to be a rather protracted philosophical discussion to which I see no end but a heated debate and a cold one in the end(amicably one would hope).. Let me try to take one last stab at it..

Its unreasonable to expect an athlete to win a medal everytime he/she is out there.. He has performed well on both events and he hasnt made excuses.. His has the guts to admit that his best wasnt just good enough (downhill)..

He has said time and time again that he will do what he does best and feels like doing.. The powers that be are cool with that... If at some point they decide its getting old and they had enough, they can s*itcan him..

I dont see any of these people who really care and pay their way perform for the better of his country( and by that I hope you mean win medals)... The ski team selection seems to be very structured to promote talent and non-nepotistic.. To answer Betty style.. There is no better butter, to make your bitter butter better..

I dont see your point about the whole world trash thing.. He is what he is.. people have a problem with it, its theirs.. The whole role model thing is way over-rated and in many cases hyporcritical.. Media views aside, you have no idea what one says/does and in many cases you will be surprised..

One team will have money, another will not... The world is unfair.. Thats the way life is..You want it enough, you get no matter how..

Hey no sweat.. you didnt personally attack me.. There are always two sides to an argument and I am not always right..

Uh, i don't see how anyone can criticize a world class athlete for lack of motivation...

I don't think you understand how ELITE bode is and HOW HARD he worked to get there. This guy takes his skiing more seriously than any of you on this board ever will. It is both ignorant and foolish to question his integrity.

This guy is the best of the best. I don't care if he is drunk when he skis. The fact that he had the determination, work ethic, and talent to get to his level of skill deserves admiration. Frankly, his attitude off the slopes has nothing to do with his skill on them.
Ski racing is about who gets from start to finish the fastest. It is not a competition to see who has the most congenial personality.

Bottom line--he is this nation's best on-piste skier. Have some respect!!

Strictly speaking, Bode is largely funded by corporate sponsors. As such, his job should be to promote those sponsors. WInning medals should be part of that, but the great job that Bode does by being the CENTER of media attention more than makes up for his lack of medals. At its core, sports is nothing but entertainment, and Bode is certainly one of the most entertaining characters out there. So I'd say he's fulfilling his Olympic role quite well.

This may be the one and only time I agree with mrzinwin...

What is it that so many people have problens with someone who demonstrates both excellence and honesty???????

Over-analyzing can be as damaging as under-analyzing. I know kayakers who will cut off scouting a rapid rather than get so worried about a particular move that they'd freeze up on it. They'll decide if it is a go or a no-go. If it is a go, they'll make a plan and make it happen. Freezing up at the wrong moment would cost much more than a medal. I can easily imagine someone like Miller knowing exactly how much inspection is enough for him. If you can't tell, I'm a fan...

Agreed but he can win so many more if he didn't Bode out.

It isn't his best that wasn't good enough, it was his lack of self control, he pushes past the line of reality. It was the lack of his best, being past his best.


But Betty if his butter wasn't so rum buttered perhaps his batter would wouldn't be so runny.

This will take this in a whole other direction but here goes.

This is equall to saying foul mouthed Johhny knuckle dragger OR baggy pants wearing plank runner puke rude little bastard at the local hill is what he is and oh well what can you do.

Skiing used to be and hold a certain I don't know, dare I say, CLASS. Many here have complained that in past years going to the hill is like going to the mall. full of ignorant rude pukes with no seeming level of respect for others.

Is Bode the new generation? This is okay? I say not.

It's time society started to stand up and say no this is pushing too far. There needs to be some level of respect of the fact he is living and becomming filthy rich due to the money of others that put him there. Granted his skill is part of why he is where he is, but is also alot of other peoples money of which he seems to have no respect of. I'll go out and drink silly the night before the biggest race of my career, I won't even inspect the course. Oh well as long as I won a few thats good enough.

Granted I am stretching analogies but I don't like his attitude and I don't like that this image is on the world class stage. All I ask is some class and this is where I demote his actions to trash.

But alas I am but one idiot amongst a sea of other idiots who is only a arm chair qaurterback who thinks I know best. I am wrong all the time and may be on this one and have said my peace.

in the great words of Paully Shorre "Bode ! Not so much buddy"

You are, quite simply, wrong.

There are many cases in the world where an "all or nothing" play has better odds of winning big long term than shooting for little dribs and drabs of points (or dollars). Great tacticians and strategists understand this. Mediocre and poor ones do not. Last year Bode Miller demonstrated that the WC was one of these places if you had the stomach for it. The guys who played it safe last year may have finished more races, but they did not take home the prize. His results ultimately speak for themselves.

Hogwash!

He is irreverent, spoiled, whiny, immature, a crybaby complainer & hypocritical. Afterall he is 28 not 18. (although he acts about 12.

Look, he says he doesn't like the $, doesn't like the rules, doesn't like to hang with the team or the coaches, doesn't like FIS or USSA. doesn't like the press or the noteriety. Why does he not just go off and ski by himself, for himself with himself.

I don't see him giving all his $ to charity.

Anyone who drinks and races, doesn't inspect on or before race day and skis on new skis that he has not been on before at an Olympic race needs therapy.

Why do you guys have such stars in oyur eyes over this guy.

And you are also wrong, he WAS this nations best skier. He should just shut the yapper & concentrate on skiing and quit worrying about what Barry bonds is doing, Sheesh : Roll eyes! You don't see Maier, rahlves, Walchofer Rocca, Raich, Ligety making a foolsih spectacles of themselves. have they all ot won tons of races (except ligety) who ever said you have to be an obstinate non-conforming ass to be good & win.

Bode's struggle quite honestly is with himself.

I have said this before, last year he only won the SG title and fell 33% of the time. does that really qualify him as the best in the World? How do you win 1 out of 5 discipalines and get the overall? i think the rules suck, just like Bode thionks the rules suck.

Raich won the GS & SL titles (GS is considered the most difficult discipline by the way) and finished every run of every race. I think that kinda makes Bode's performance pale in comparison!

and look at the advsersity Hermann has endured and comes out fighting with a smile on his face and wiins!

Bode doesn't know what adversity is all about, unless you consider an outhouse in the middle of winter a huge obstacle to overcome!

I was starting to get really disgruntled with this thread and then I read this post and felt a little better.

1. I love American opinions about celebrities and celebrity athletes. We think we know them because we saw them on "60 Minutes" or read a partially-fictionalized tabloid tell-all. At the end of the day, how do you think any of us would come off sitting across from an interviewer on national TV? Probably at least some part of the interview would leave America with the impression that we are dumb, jerks, or worse. And then the increasingly tabloid-esque media would have a field day with whatever remarks would get them the biggest headlines. Sigh.

2. Bode has always, from day one as a racer, been inconsistent. Always. My friend's brother raced with him, back in NH, back in the day, and he would likely tell you the same thing. However, at the end of the day, his inconsistency and on-the-edge style is what made him brilliant. If you go back and read early articles about Bode, they don't talk about his reliability. They talk about surprises. About pushing the envelope. About barely holding on. About crashing. But brilliance, nonetheless. And sure, he's gotten more consistent the last few years. But there have still been surprises, some eccentricities. Because it's an Olympic year, however, we expect him to rein in the wildness that's always been who Bode is and become what? I for one think that would be kind of dull. . . and, well, inconsistent. :

3. Why do we think that athletic stardom = nice, charming, personable behavior? Are all fanatically driven people (because that's what it takes to excel at a world-class level in anything) just like you and me? Most likely not. They're eccentric. They're egotistical. They're focused on winning, not being friends. Or they're focused on getting the paprazzi to leave them alone. Or they're focused on figuring out how to live a normal life with a whole city's/state's/nation's attention focused on them. They're probably not going to behave like you and me. They're going to trash a few hotel rooms. They're going to come off as antisocial. They're going to have a string of screwed up relationships. They're going to get drunk and do something stupid. Oh wait. Most of us have done that. We just didn't have the international media reporting on it.

4. He's doing his job the best he can. His job is to ski. His job is to ski the best he can on a given day, and I somehow don't think 5th place in the Olympic DH is that horrible. His job is to wear the labels of his sponsors when he's getting media attention, and he's sure getting plenty of that.

Maybe we're all just a little jealous that we don't get paid to ski and drink in Europe?

Mollmeister

I dont think so.. He just doesnt herd.. He is very indie...

And... Well said Mollie .. I couldnt agree more..

your post kinda reminded me of this math teacher I once had
who would base your grade mostly on effort and attitude: if you would show up to class and do all your homework and maintain a healthy "learning" attitude--aka kiss ass, you would get an A, nevermind that you sucked at math.

There were kids who were math geniuses who often missed class, didn't do assignments, and exuded arrogance. He would close to fail them even though they aced every exam.

That teacher angers me to this day. Life should be about results, not about who can bs the best in front of a camera. Pit body miller's world cup results up against any other American racer over the past couple of years. You'll see, there's really no comparison.

So you see, I'm not a big fan of conformers. I like people who break the rules, who dare to think differently, against "conventional wisdom." I look up to those who break the mold and do things their own way. That's what America's all about--the drive of innovation, of risk taking, of trying new ways to do things, no matter what other people say. I like Bode because he dares to be different. Being different may make others (such as yourself) uncomfortable, thereby generating animosity. But a big part about being different is to not care so much about what others think.

That is, in fact, what typically prevails in the WC standings.

Note Bode's finishes in the speed events last season:

DH: 1 1 4 14 14 8 3 3 4 4 2
SG: 1 2 4 5 4 5 1

A bit more mixed in technical events (x indicates he didn't finish in the top 30 ... this might be because of a DNF, or failing to finish the first run with one of the 30 top times ... usually with Bode the former):

GS: 1 x 1 x 3 2 x 2
SL: x 1 x x x x x x 6

On the other hand, there aren't many atheletes who even compete in DH and SL. If you compare him to, say, Maier, you could consider the two slalom finishes icing on the cake.

Just for the sake of seeing some other figures, here are Raich's finishes last year. I don't particularly know what point someone might draw from these:

DH: 16 27 17 11 17 12 11
SG: 6 10 3 7 10 4 11
GS: 13 3 28 2 4 4 1 3
SL: 1 4 6 2 3 8 2 3 4

He's more ragged this year, but is pretty likely to win the overall:

DH: x 19 27 15 10 x
SG: 2 18 21 31 18
GS: 4 x 7 1 1
SL: x 2 x 3 x 3 3

Anja Paerson, last year, just for the heck of it:

DH: 16 17 30 29 5 1 8
SG: 12 8 13 2 x 5 1 3
GS: 1 2 2 x 6 4 3 17
SL: 2 x 4 5 x x 1 10

Here's my take:

Bode said the Olympics suck before he got there, 'cuz the athletes don't see enough green.

He straddles a gate and says, "it's no big deal".

He is reported as saying "It's just another race."

He is doing everything he can to take the shine off the Olympic apple.

He's got his own agenda and axe to grind and Olympic coverage gives him the opportunity. Darn shame he's crushing the dreams of the kids that looked up to him in the process.

"Hero?" my arse.

Right on, Lars. He failed to podium (how's that Foxy ) in the DH because he totally ran out of gas at the end of the race and could no longer hold his tuck or his edge/line. And did you see him after his slalom run? He was gasping so hard I thought someone was going to have to perform CPR on him. Are you kiddin me? It's just a slalom run for cripe sakes.

To all those of you who are bashing Bode and his attitude, I hope you don't have kids and raise them with the same attitude that winning is everything and the only thing. The fact that he actually lives the concept of "playing the game" is just too hard for you to fathom, isn't it? The simple fact is, the guy is good, and he's fast.... damn fast. And because of that he made the US ski team, won a WC overall title, took home 2 silver medals in 2002, and has made a better living at skiing than any of us on this board (unless there is someone here on Epic who has made millions from thier skiing).

he's also listened to his coaches and has become more consistant lately. For those of you who claimed "he was going too hard", you have zero concept of his reality. The fact is, is that he ws being conservative, and was actually early on the last gate coming out of the flush. He's been skiing more conservative lines in the SL for about a month now, and finishing races. He's still looking for that happy medium between too straight a line to finish and too round a line to win. In the Combined SL his ski was not redirected all that much. It didn't even affect his line. Watch it again at real speed (not slow motion), and you'll see that his ski ran away from him for about 1/4 of a second. When I hear WC level racers say that they didn't know they straddled a gate, I think I'll take their word for it over some recreational skier/armchair QB who has never run a flush in their life, run gates with full protective equipment, and couldn't straight run the hill as fast as these guys can make it through the gates.

Some of you folks need to get over your bad selves. The guy is an amazing racer and actually a good guy with an extremely healthy attitude about competitive sport. It's just not the wife beating, drug addicted, convict US Football and basketball attitude you've been brought up with, where winning is the only thing, and if you don't win, you should raise a huge protest and whine like a baby.

Oh yeah, Bode beat Daron big in the DH. Why isn't everyone chastising him and calling him a failure?

This guy at the Chicago Sun Times should be strapped to a pair of 215s and pushed out the start ramp of the Hannenkam.: