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Please help with Metron Assimilation!!! - Page 2

post #31 of 69
As an outside observer I have over the time on this board enjoyed HS contrary opinion. He paints with far too wide of a brush at times but any dolt reading his posts can discern this point. When making choices it is always beneficial to undertsand and deliberate about both sides opinions. This is what HS brings to the table, and it is great in that he provides a differing opinion.

Debate is thought provoking and inspiring. Sadly where HS goes of the mark is with his chest thumping and omnipotent viewpoints.

Everybody has seen his public pummeling on the TGR board. He has been ostracized and ridiculed by the very community that he touted as the holy grail. Seems he is driving the car down the same road on this board. Maybe he'll learn that his opinion is simply that, an opinion and nothing more.

Lets see if this board can wean HS off the nipple of abrasiveness or will he continue to...suck.

Cheers.
post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb
Everybody has seen his public pummeling on the TGR board. He has been ostracized and ridiculed by the very community that he touted as the holy grail. Seems he is driving the car down the same road on this board. Maybe he'll learn that his opinion is simply that, an opinion and nothing more.
You know, I really don't need the commentary on my internet behavior from you or anyone else. Public pummeling? Riiiight. S**t went down on TGRF because a half dozen asshats who ski at stowe think they rule the east coast and I didn't pay them the respect they think they deserve. It's called an interenet gang, and it's almost as gay as dungeons and dragons. So I end up with a few douchebags following me around harrassing me. Solution? Slug it out for a while, which was fun, then I deleted all my posts. Seemed to be a good idea at the time, and has turned out brilliantly. It's hard to harrass someone when they delete their posts afterwards, makes for very disjointed threads. I also have a picture of one of their "crew" in my avatar, plus others I've downloaded....I have photoshop and know how to use it. I've been arguing on the internet for a long, long time, and have no intention of stopping now.


If I wanted to make friends on the internet, I would not take the attitude I do. I post on here and TGR forums purely for my own personal entertainment, not to win friends and influence people. I would rather meet real skiers in real life who I enjoy skiing with, and I have no problem doing so. It entertains me to discuss technical topics and engage in fights, flame wars, etc on the internet. If you guys have a different point of view, great, otherwise I wouldn't have anyone to argue with.
post #33 of 69
Snowdog!!!

After the first two months of the Sierra freakshow that has gone on....I have skied every condition known to mankind! Fortunately for me, who is approx the same size as SnowDog...I was hooked up with K2 Appachee Outlaws. These skis are the most consistantly set I have ever been on for superior turns in all conditions. Crud can be fun! Demo a pair of 181s before you blindly decide on Atomics! If you eventually go that route...162cm is TOO SHORT for you!
post #34 of 69
I skied a pair of apache Recons, last year. now understand , i live in K2 land.

Most boring, nothing to it it ski i think i have skied on. but i have never been on a K2 I liked.
post #35 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog2112
Now I know what length HS thinks I should ski, but 185 is not an option (thankfully). That leaves 172 or 162. The Atomic chart puts me on 162. What say you fellow Metronites? 6'1", 195# advanced who craves tight turns but goes 4x4 too...
Buy the 162's, you deserve them. If you think they are the best choice for your and you skiing, go right ahead.

(snicker)
post #36 of 69
HS, did the thought *EVER* cross your mind that maybe there is something lacking in *YOUR* technique?

You act like you are skiing the damn Chugach range on a regular basis. Don't you ski some pitiful little east coast molehill on your *BIG* boards?
post #37 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
HS, did the thought *EVER* cross your mind that maybe there is something lacking in *YOUR* technique?

You act like you are skiing the damn Chugach range on a regular basis. Don't you ski some pitiful little east coast molehill on your *BIG* boards?
There is very little lacking in my technique, plus I have experience and agression in spades. I'm actually a real live "technical freeskier". I ski at Killington most of the time (about 30 days this year so far).

I'm super modest too.
post #38 of 69
i skied m11 in a 172 till last week ..i demoed b5 in a 162 and purchased it ...it does all i have asked...the 11 was hard to get arround for short turns on the steeper trails once it was on edge..if i let it skid it was ok and if i hooped it was ok but found myself literally going back up hill when i was skiiing the steeper stuff...the b5 was just as stable in the crud yesterday and today was very responsive to my edge set on the steeper trails but still could go full throttle like the m11

i am 5'8" 235 skiing about 45 days so far this year
the only real problem i have had with both skis is the man made styrafoam...it get a little dicey cause skiis wanna grab it and will through me if i am not paying attention
post #39 of 69
MQUOTE=Highway Star]There is very little lacking in my technique, plus I have experience and agression in spades. I'm actually a real live "technical freeskier". I ski at Killington most of the time (about 30 days this year so far).

I'm super modest too.[/quote]I knew it! My point exactly!

A 693 acre ant hill!!!!

Maybe you should come out & ski some MOUNTAINS out west here.

Our home mountain 90 minutes from my house is 1,300 hundred acres lift served and over a 1000 acres of patrolled backcountry, with 3,100 feet of vertical!


http://www.skicrystal.com/_DOWNLOADS...2000h1520w.pdf

You might actually get to use those big boards there or at Whistler/Blackcomb 4 hours north.
post #40 of 69
I just took the bindings off my 162 cm Metrons and put them on my new SXB5 174 cm and skied the SX for the first time for a couple hours Wendesday. The temps were high so the snow was very soft. Anyway, skiing a 12 meter radius ski and then switching to a ski with less sidecut is immediately discernible. The 12 meter short turning capability is pretty addicting especially when you ski on a molehill like I do most of the time.

I'm really looking forward to skiing the SX 's and their longer radius and determing my preference. I have a pair of SL 11 in case I can't hack it.

The Metrons are a blast to ski and pretty much can do it all.
post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidbump
i skied m11 in a 172 till last week ..i demoed b5 in a 162 and purchased it ...it does all i have asked...the 11 was hard to get arround for short turns on the steeper trails once it was on edge..if i let it skid it was ok and if i hooped it was ok but found myself literally going back up hill when i was skiiing the steeper stuff...the b5 was just as stable in the crud yesterday and today was very responsive to my edge set on the steeper trails but still could go full throttle like the m11

i am 5'8" 235 skiing about 45 days so far this year
the only real problem i have had with both skis is the man made styrafoam...it get a little dicey cause skiis wanna grab it and will through me if i am not paying attention
I skied the b5 in the 162 and hated them. I bent my M11's and have some 07 M11 B5's on the way to repalce them. Quite frankly, I will probably sell them since the 176's I wanted were not in the country yet.
post #42 of 69
i would have tried 162 m11 but they didnt have any to demo last week..m10 but no m11...for the way i ski the b5 fit me a tad better than the 11..i purchased 11 172 based on the chart... i also have had a hard time moving down to this length ...look awful short but really ski much longer and at 235 i feel real confident in these at the shorter length...the rossi z5's from 2 yrs ago spooked me with how flimsy they were at speeds so i automaticly jumped to the longer m11...skied 5 inches of fresh with b5 and seemed stable and did float a little and wished i had hit it on a good 12" plus day ...cut the crud later in the day pretty good but was suprised yesterday and today how well it was in the mashed potatoes ...so i guess my new rock skiis will be my m11's
post #43 of 69
After sking the metrons for about 90 days so far in nearly every conditions. I can say they are one of the most versatile skis around....but they are much better choices out there for GS turns and longer going faster. I weigh 165 and am 5'10 and these skis are not all that stable at high speeds, it gets worse when your not turning, and /or in choppy snow. Up in Vermont by the afternoon I feel that the this ski just isnt the best thing going. With chopped up snow and not much edge on the ground, it becomes very um well ...interesting. Never have the problem at my home hill though.

I skied on a 175cm M-eX early in December, the ski was much more fun and easier to ski fast on choppy snow, vs my 162 B5. Lack off side cut was nice as the ski just bent and rocketed to the next turn no matter what the speed, the B5 will get very catchy at speed. Also 'steery" turns wer much easier on the Ex. If I lived out west I would be thinking about getting a 185 M-ex over the 175.

HS has good points, but goes about in the totally wrong way of getting them across
post #44 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeRipper
Snowdog!!!

After the first two months of the Sierra freakshow that has gone on....I have skied every condition known to mankind! Fortunately for me, who is approx the same size as SnowDog...I was hooked up with K2 Appachee Outlaws. These skis are the most consistantly set I have ever been on for superior turns in all conditions. Crud can be fun! Demo a pair of 181s before you blindly decide on Atomics! If you eventually go that route...162cm is TOO SHORT for you!


I think I'll take yours and HS's advice and demo some longer boards... I'm open to other people's opinions unlike some people posting here...

What else can I say to stir this pot though??? This has been fun!!!
post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA
After sking the metrons for about 90 days so far in nearly every conditions. I can say they are one of the most versatile skis around....but they are much better choices out there for GS turns and longer going faster. I weigh 165 and am 5'10 and these skis are not all that stable at high speeds, it gets worse when your not turning, and /or in choppy snow. Up in Vermont by the afternoon I feel that the this ski just isnt the best thing going. With chopped up snow and not much edge on the ground, it becomes very um well ...interesting. Never have the problem at my home hill though.

I skied on a 175cm M-eX early in December, the ski was much more fun and easier to ski fast on choppy snow, vs my 162 B5. Lack off side cut was nice as the ski just bent and rocketed to the next turn no matter what the speed, the B5 will get very catchy at speed. Also 'steery" turns wer much easier on the Ex. If I lived out west I would be thinking about getting a 185 M-ex over the 175.

HS has good points, but goes about in the totally wrong way of getting them across
Just goes to show ya, I disagree with everything you said.

Go figure? Everyone skis differently!
post #46 of 69
I'm with you all the way Aman on this ski subject. Someday we'll have to ski together.

I too have never been on a K2 that I liked. I would never hold it against anyone if they do though.

Those that find the MB5 unstable or lacking edge hold ect. should look at how they are using and standing on the ski. It requires a modern, two footed, centered stance, and a fine feel for your edges and pressure control to get all that this ski has to offer. Neither the Rossi Z9 or the new to come atomic M11 B5 are it's equal. They are nice skis, though, and much more forgiving.

Between these two, (Z9, M11B5), I give the edge to the atomic as it seemed to be more versatile wiht a much more even flex and that great atomic edge hold.

The current M11 is a step down for those that want more forgivness in the same profile. Later, RicB.
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
I skied a pair of apache Recons, last year. now understand , i live in K2 land.

Most boring, nothing to it it ski i think i have skied on. but i have never been on a K2 I liked.
I agree with Atomicman here. I demoed the Apache Recon and the AC4, and still liked the lower level Metron 9 better. Part of that is in what I'm looking for, however. My lone local hill is a 350 vert. pimple in the midwest. I liked the short turn ability of the Metron, quite simply. I liked the Recon and the AC4 quite a bit, but they didn't excite me quite like the Metron did. I need something that is going to stretch out those short runs I get at home, and something that is going to be fun on my 2 or 3 yearly trips west.
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrester
I agree with Atomicman here. I demoed the Apache Recon and the AC4, and still liked the lower level Metron 9 better. Part of that is in what I'm looking for, however. My lone local hill is a 350 vert. pimple in the midwest. I liked the short turn ability of the Metron, quite simply. I liked the Recon and the AC4 quite a bit, but they didn't excite me quite like the Metron did. I need something that is going to stretch out those short runs I get at home, and something that is going to be fun on my 2 or 3 yearly trips west.
I haven't been a K2 fan for years, but I did like the AC4. But on the small hill that you are on, I could see you wanting a tight turner like a Metron.
post #49 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese
I haven't been a K2 fan for years, but I did like the AC4. But on the small hill that you are on, I could see you wanting a tight turner like a Metron.
Phil,

Since I can't find any Metrons to demo, I picked up some AC4's and am headed out for a demo tomorrow. All they had were 177's so we'll see how they work out. I know they probably won't turn as tight as the Metrons but will be no doubt worlds apart from the Volants...
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog2112
Phil,

Since I can't find any Metrons to demo, I picked up some AC4's and am headed out for a demo tomorrow. All they had were 177's so we'll see how they work out. I know they probably won't turn as tight as the Metrons but will be no doubt worlds apart from the Volants...
Those are pretty good, 177 will be okay since they are a fairly stiff ski, but 184 is the proper length for someone of your size (though they may be too stiff for you). I'm not a volkl fan since they tend to be a little too stiff for their length and mass, for my preferences. I'd rather be on something softer, longer and heavier.
post #51 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog2112
Phil,

Since I can't find any Metrons to demo, I picked up some AC4's and am headed out for a demo tomorrow. All they had were 177's so we'll see how they work out. I know they probably won't turn as tight as the Metrons but will be no doubt worlds apart from the Volants...
The AC4's were stiff, held a good edge and were very stable at high speed. They also busted crud like a Sherman tank. They were not however what I was looking for in the form of arc and spark as ssh so aptly put it.

Any other suggestions on a similar shaped ski that's close to a Metron 11?
post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDog2112
The AC4's were stiff, held a good edge and were very stable at high speed. They also busted crud like a Sherman tank. They were not however what I was looking for in the form of arc and spark as ssh so aptly put it.

Any other suggestions on a similar shaped ski that's close to a Metron 11?
I skied the AC4 in a 170 and loved it. Not much is out there with the shape of the m11 (other than the B5). Most with the shape of the M11 have a width in the 60's, try the M10's. Nordica Hot Rods and Rossi Z9 might be on your list now.
post #53 of 69
The only ones close to the B5/M:11 are the Rossi Z9 and the Head SuperShape (although it's quite a bit narrower). The Hot Rods aren't close.
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB
Those that find the MB5 unstable or lacking edge hold ect. should look at how they are using and standing on the ski. It requires a modern, two footed, centered stance, and a fine feel for your edges and pressure control to get all that this ski has to offer. Neither the Rossi Z9 or the new to come atomic M11 B5 are it's equal. They are nice skis, though, and much more forgiving.
RicB, I think that you're comments here are right-on and key to getting the most out of these skis. The Z9 is like the 4S of yore: a higher-end ski that can be skied by more advanced intermediates, yet address the requirements of skilled skiers, as well.

The B5 is a pretty interesting ski. If skied as RicB says here, I don't think there is a ski on the market that can compare. However, it is very sensitive to technique, and those of us who come from more traditional technique may find them harder to enjoy as we have seen from a number of folks here. Note: I am not suggesting that technique is the only reason folks may not enjoy this ski, but it is one very definite reason. In some ways I like this characteristic of the ski, since it effectively warns me that I'm off my game.

BTW, after entrusting my B5s to a tuner who shall remain nameless, I also learned that the B5s are very tune sensitive. Skiing them with my family on Friday, I couldn't find the edges. I dropped them off to have the bevels reset, since I don't have the full complement of tools, yet. I trust they'll be back to normal on Tuesday.
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star
If I wanted to make friends on the internet, I would not take the attitude I do. I post on here and TGR forums purely for my own personal entertainment, not to win friends and influence people. I would rather meet real skiers in real life who I enjoy skiing with, and I have no problem doing so. It entertains me to discuss technical topics and engage in fights, flame wars, etc on the internet. If you guys have a different point of view, great, otherwise I wouldn't have anyone to argue with.
Ah! This makes it all clear. Thanks for coming clean.
post #56 of 69
Thanks Phil, SSH, et al (but not HS). I bought the M11 today. I was ready to give up on the Atomics after trying the B5, M EX, M10, and Snoop Daddy. I didn't think the M11 would be that much better for me, but the advice given here has been consistent which convinced me to keep trying to find a demo. I was surprised at the versatility of the ski. I am an off-piste skier 90% and had no trouble making a variety of turns in a variety of conditions (we had it all today). I did not try the 40 mph crud test so I can't confirm or deny, in case anyone really cares.

For me, the B5 felt too stiff. My only turn choices were to tip to 11 meter turns or skid them shorter. I couldn't sense much bending under my 160lbs at the relatively slow speeds that I ski. I absolutely loved the B5 on the groomers and knew that if I could find a short radius ski with a little more bend, it would be perfect for me. The M11 was it. I didn't ski the B5 for very long so I don't know if it would have been as tiring as it seemed, but I skied the M11 all day and it was fine. At the end of the day I was making some pretty casual turns without any punishment.

I give the M11 high marks for crud, ease of turning, floatation, liveliness, and short turns. FWIW, it is one of the best rides I have had on death cookies, but I still haven't found the right ski for avalanche snow boulders. I had no problem with stability, but I don't ski all that fast. I did find myself keeping the skis on edge in high speed stretches and I am not sure if that was a response to something I sensed or just a natural inclination to prevent a problem. It is probably not the ski for heavier skiers as it responds well to my weight. As many have commented, it is heavy, especially with the demo bindings. It does not ski heavy although I could feel it skating on the flat. I had no problems making larger radius turns. I think Atomic has an impressive line of skis right now. I will also give the Rossi Z9 a plug as I found that to be a pretty versatile ski as well.

Even though I have over 40 days in the Chugach this season, I would still humbly suggest that YMMV.

Good luck, SnowDog. Sometimes just finding the skis to demo can make the decision making process difficult. The ski reviews here are very useful even if you have to sometimes try to understand the perspective of the poster.
post #57 of 69
Ra40, nice review! Thanks for doing that.
post #58 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredat40
Good luck, SnowDog. Sometimes just finding the skis to demo can make the decision making process difficult. The ski reviews here are very useful even if you have to sometimes try to understand the perspective of the poster.
Ra40... Appreciate the feedback and the time you devoted (congrats on your new purchase). The same goes to all who replied, with special thanks to ssh, Phil, A-Man and HS: Afterall, if it wasn't for HS I don't think as many heart felt opinions would have flowed so freely. Long live free speech and debate; no matter how much it makes your blood boil:

Still in search of M11/10's to demo but not very optimistic about the prospects. Northeast Washington isn't a hot bed for equipment demos. Maybe I'll luck out and find a pair to borrow for a few runs up on the hill (just kidding of course). If all else fails I'll just buy pair and cross my fingers. Doesn't sound like I'd have a hard time getting rid of them if they didn't work out...
post #59 of 69
SnowDog, saw some M:9s at Dick's tonight for about $400 with bindings. Deals to be had out there...
post #60 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
SnowDog, saw some M:9s at Dick's tonight for about $400 with bindings. Deals to be had out there...
ssh, thanks for the heads up... No Dick's out here but will check in some of the other shops. They are starting to advertise the progressive sales. Do you know of an Atomic Dealer link online to narrow the search?
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