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Breckenridge wake up call!!! - Page 2

post #31 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13
I'm going to CO in early April. I sure as hell hope the entire area is cover in fresh snow and the ice that goes with it.
I fully understand
post #32 of 77
Thread Starter 
Well just to clear up some things no one in my group slipped tripped or fell. The full gainers I witnessed on the side walk were complete strangers (and me without any BSI : ) For the week we stayed at Breckenridge it was not really that crowded. We never waited for more than 2 or 3 chairs at a time on the lifts. The only night we had to wait to get a table was Friday night, and that was only 20 to 30 minutes. No one in breck was rude or really negative to us.

Even though we had really 0" inches of fresh snow (3-4) the day we arrived but most of that was skied out the next day. We really enjoyed the mountain and will ski there again.

Maybe because of so much traffic the towns folk are getting burned out. I just expected people that were living and working in some of the best ski country around to have a more wholesome attitude. Like I have experienced on mountain vacations over the past 12 years both summer and winter.

I know it was the NSP ball cap I was wearing. Break must be a town of rebels. Sweet!!!!
post #33 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
Well next time your group goes skiing, for safety's sake, you might want to make some footwear suggestions.
I agree. Some women are total morons when it comes to proper footwear. Fashion trumps all.

When flying back from ESA to Pittsburgh, it was about 20 degrees and snowing when we landed. Sitting across from me on the shuttle to long-term parking was a high-maintenance type woman with designer suitcases. I looked down and she was wearing strappy little high-heeled sandals with a perfect pedicure. But this was Pittsburgh in freakin' Februrary. I'm sure the ski-town socialites wouldn't have any more sense than she did.:
post #34 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary
... Maybe you should get out of breck to other "ski towns" like Steamboat, or Jackson I have been to both during and after major snow falls. And never seen Ice build ups that last for a week after the snow stops falling. ...
Altitude, Jackson, WY: 6500 ft
Altitude, Steamboat Springs, CO: 6700 ft
Altitude, Breckenridge, CO: 9600 ft

Huge difference.
post #35 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown
Altitude, Jackson, WY: 6500 ft
Altitude, Steamboat Springs, CO: 6700 ft
Altitude, Breckenridge, CO: 9600 ft

Huge difference.
Yes but both areas are further north so really same same!

latitude 39.474 = Breckenridge
latitude 40.459 = Steamboat
latitude 43.597 = Jackson Hole
post #36 of 77
As a friendly robot often said on "Lost In Space",

"THAT DOES NOT COMPUTE"!

3,000' of elevation difference is not the equivalent of
a few degrees of latitude.

I think "Robot" was also known to say, "It's the altitude man!"
post #37 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary
Yes but both areas are further north so really same same!
Uh, no, not the same ....
post #38 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary
Yes but both areas are further north so really same same!

latitude 39.474 = Breckenridge
latitude 40.459 = Steamboat
latitude 43.597 = Jackson Hole
How much snow or ice retains on a spot in the mountains depends on how much afternoon sun the spot gets. Breck's Main St is thin, lined with two story buildings, and runs north/south. Therefore it gets very little afternoon sun and is prone to snow and ice.

Latitude has almost nothing to do with mountain climates. Gunnison is the coldest city in Colorado.

Steve
post #39 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
How much snow or ice retains on a spot in the mountains depends on how much afternoon sun the spot gets. Breck's Main St is thin, lined with two story buildings, and runs north/south. Therefore it gets very little afternoon sun and is prone to snow and ice.

Latitude has almost nothing to do with mountain climates. Gunnison is the coldest city in Colorado.

Steve
Nowhere in Breck gets sun, does it? It's always cold there, because the sun time is so short.
post #40 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown
Nowhere in Breck gets sun, does it? It's always cold there, because the sun time is so short.
My house gets bombarded with afternoon sun. All the snow around my house is typically melted out by the first week of April. The idea that Breck is colder than other nearby ski areas is a myth.

Steve
post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
My house gets bombarded with afternoon sun. All the snow around my house is typically melted out by the first week of April. The idea that Breck is colder than other nearby ski areas is a myth.

Steve
I meant the town, not the ski area. It has sunny areas, but a lot of shade, too, due to trees and mtns and exposure. My brother's house stays snowbound until May.
post #42 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown
I meant the town, not the ski area. It has sunny areas, but a lot of shade, too, due to trees and mtns and exposure. My brother's house stays snowbound until May.
By definition "temperature" is always measured in the shade.

If your brother's house hold snow until May it's probably not actually in Breckenridge but instead up higher or in Blue River. Even the homes on the ski hill side of town are cleared of snow well before May unless it's in a uniquely shady area.

The town itself has many sunny areas. I lived on High St., my house was baked with afternoon sun and clear of snow in March.

Main St. is definitely shady because of its width and exposure but the rest of town is just like any other town.

Steve
post #43 of 77
How was Breck this past weekend with the crowds? I was at Loveland on Saturday, and I've seen it more crowded on a weekday. Its like everyone forgot it was Presidents Weekend!
post #44 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dunn
How was Breck this past weekend with the crowds? I was at Loveland on Saturday, and I've seen it more crowded on a weekday. Its like everyone forgot it was Presidents Weekend!
I skied Friday and Today and there were no lines at all at Breck. I assume Saturday/Sunday were crowded but I don't know for sure. I do have guests staying with me. They skied Saturday and said it was crowded but still fun. But they really have no reference as compared to a normal Saturday.

Steve
post #45 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dunn
How was Breck this past weekend with the crowds? I was at Loveland on Saturday, and I've seen it more crowded on a weekday. Its like everyone forgot it was Presidents Weekend!
I went to Copper Saturday, and was shocked at how un-crowded it was. I'm sure there were some lines at the base area, but overall, there were few people, and the drive up AND back were the easiest all year. It was about 20 degrees COLDER in Denver, so I wonder if people thought it would be frigid in the mtns. Four-packs were blacked out, too. I was really nervous to go Pres Weekend, but it was nothing.
post #46 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
....If your brother's house hold snow until May it's probably not actually in Breckenridge but instead up higher or in Blue River....
Well, yes, I meant the entire area, "suburbs" and all. Overall, I find it colder than a lot of places in the mtns, due to altitude and exposure.
post #47 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown
Well, yes, I meant the entire area, "suburbs" and all. Overall, I find it colder than a lot of places in the mtns, due to altitude and exposure.
There are definitely some very cold and snowy places where people have built homes. I live at 9780 feet with a western exposure. When my snow is gone (April 1), the homes at 10,500 feet will still have many feet of snow surrounding them. Just on the other side of Hoosier pass there's a multi-million $ home built at 11,500 feet. I think It would be like living in the arctic. While I'm nice and warm in spring sunshine, the snow itself would keep temps around that house cold.

Colorado weather is bizarre. Generally the higher you go the colder it is. But cold air is heavy and drops and settles in low spots. So there are conflicting influences on temperature especially in winter.

In fall and spring the altitude is the main influence on temperature which causes snow to fall early and last longer into spring. But in the winter, it's usually the terrain that determines temperature and so the mountain valleys are coldest.

I have a weather station here and I compare it to one in Silverthorne and they are much colder almost every morning in the winter. Being 200 feet above Breck I'd bet my morning lows are about 5 degrees warmer daily than Breck.

And then there's the front range inversion. When you guys were dealing with highs of single digits a few days ago, it was 30s up here.

Steve
post #48 of 77

Slip/fall

Pretty much the same thing happened to my girlfriend in Steamboat a couple of weeks ago. We were walking to dinner on Lincoln (main st.) and she slipped, fell and really smacked the back of her head. Instead of dinner, we took the bus to the Yampa Valley Med. Center to get her checked for a concussion, CT scan, etc. Fortunately there was no concussion, but the doctor wouldn't let her ski, ice skate, snowmobile, dog sled or do anything that might rattle her melon for the next three days. It was an unfortunate accident, but just that-an accident. We were both wearing snow clogs, and it was still very slippery in spots. The weather situation was probably similar to what Breckenridge experienced, with lots of snow in the previous week(s) and the town couldn't keep up. I'm guessing there are no local ordinances on clearing sidewalks, because the Routt County courthouse's block-long sidewalk had about a solid inch of ice the entire length. Some merchants had cleared down to bare pavement, others had not.

Small acident aside, we had a great time, met lots of nice people as we always do in Steamboat (another "town with a mountain"), and skied our buns off. Snow and ice in a ski town? - Geez, I hope so!
post #49 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Graham
Pretty much the same thing happened to my girlfriend in Steamboat a couple of weeks ago. We were walking to dinner on Lincoln (main st.) and she slipped, fell and really smacked the back of her head. Instead of dinner, we took the bus to the Yampa Valley Med. Center to get her checked for a concussion, CT scan, etc. Fortunately there was no concussion, but the doctor wouldn't let her ski, ice skate, snowmobile, dog sled or do anything that might rattle her melon for the next three days. It was an unfortunate accident, but just that-an accident. We were both wearing snow clogs, and it was still very slippery in spots. The weather situation was probably similar to what Breckenridge experienced, with lots of snow in the previous week(s) and the town couldn't keep up. I'm guessing there are no local ordinances on clearing sidewalks, because the Routt County courthouse's block-long sidewalk had about a solid inch of ice the entire length. Some merchants had cleared down to bare pavement, others had not.

Small acident aside, we had a great time, met lots of nice people as we always do in Steamboat (another "town with a mountain"), and skied our buns off. Snow and ice in a ski town? - Geez, I hope so!
kcmcleary, you need to take lessons from this guy^^^. His gf took a bad spill, smacked her head, missed three days of activities and he's still not half as annoyed about the snow and ice as you are.
post #50 of 77
Thread Starter 
not anoid, concerned! Is truly ashame she ruined her vacation though! But accidents do happen! You are all right we do and should expect to encounter ice in the 'mountains" I was just pointing out a situation that IMHO was beyond the ordinary! And with a small effort could have been rectified for the good of all so that someone else's vacation would not be ruined.

You very lucky few that live there don't understand how important to our sanity out vacations are. I would hate to save all year round for a precious week in your beautiful area, endure the hassle of all the travel. get there and because of a short lapse of judgment of while staring pie eyed at the beauty of the place slip and fall and spend multiple days recovering from a stupid but avoidable mistake.

But what the heck the people at the hospital need to make a living too right!!!
post #51 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary
not anoid, concerned!
Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that you told me the problem doesn't occur in Steamboat?

Steve
post #52 of 77
Thread Starter 
You have really missed IMOHO what the problem was.

1. My perception of the problem was:

An incredible build up of ice on the side walk of the main street of Breckenridge. What I observed was Ice so thick it presented a tripping hazard as well as a slipping problem. Ice 3 to 4 inches thick sprawling across the side walks like the fingers of some ancient glacier. That remained on the side walk 5-6 days after any major snow fall. Not a coating of melt and refreeze. (which I am sure happens daily) A situation that any person with a little common sense would think WOW this is really dangerous someone could get hurt. A situation that if I had gotten injured on armed with a few pictures and a few eye wittinesses I would be owning property in Breckenridge real soon! Hence I thought it appropriate to try and point out the obvious to someone in Breck that the issue may need to be looked into! Now I am labeled the ICE NAZI!!!

Of course Ice happens! But is it unreasonable for tourist to expect the sidewalk on MAINSTEET to be reasonably free of hazards? 4, 5, 6 days after any major snowfall? From what I have read it seems the city does all the street and side walk snow removal. during the week prior to my arrival you got dumped on. This created a problem to large for the city crews to get their arms around. So people of Breck if ya see a problem in front of your property with extensive ice build up. Take 15 minutes around 1 or 2 in the afternoon when the temps are close to 40 degrees and the ice is soft grab an ice spud and make the world a safer place for all of us.
post #53 of 77

Setting the record straight

I can empathize with kcmcleary about the preciousness of time off and spending it in the mountains. I work 60-70 hours a week, and the payoff is an annual ski trip to Steamboat for 8 days. Sure I want the trip to be perfect, but life ain't perfect. When my girlfriend slipped and fell, we weren't "staring pie-eyed at the beauty of the place" (it was at night and in town). We had been in Steamboat four days at that point and knew the condition of the sidewalks. She didn't have a "lapse of judgement"-she fell even though we were trying to be careful. As I said before, it was an accident, simple as that. Could the sidewalks been cleared of snow and ice?-probably. Should they have been?-Sure, but they weren't, and I think that's known a a "clear and present danger". Any Bears out there knowlegeable about CO slip/fall liability can chime in. As to the hospitals making money off the tourists-the ER staff isn't taking a cut. In fact, the ER personnel were among the most friendly, pleasant people we met.

I guess it's all in one's point of view. Sure, it sucked that she missed three days of skiing, but she was able to indulge in one of her favorite pastimes-sleeping. Most importantly, the love of my life was not(badly) injured-AND we were still on vacation in Steamboat, watching the Winter Carnival and the fireworks, skiing, feeding the gray jays on the lodge deck-instead of back in NJ in 50-60 degree weather.
post #54 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary

But what the heck the people at the hospital need to make a living too right!!!
Sigh! this is supposed to be sarcasm.

Joseph I did not intend to make light or insinuate anything to do with your situation. I hope nothing but the best for your GF and a full recovery.

All I was trying to bring to light was a circumstance that IMHO (in my humble opinion) was extraordinarily dangerous that could have been rectified with a little effort from a few good people.
post #55 of 77
I agree with you kcmcleary.

I ski Breck often and the ice on the streets and sidewalks in town is awful. I mean it's thick, always. Even seems to run up the walls of the buildings, and it's common to see ice climbers scaling them. The employees at the resort are rude, always swearing at the guests for various infractions, and the slope patrol will pull lift tickets from people with bad technique. The sun never shines in Summit County, and while the snow is typically deep in town it seems to miss the resort's slopes. I go through about 5 pair of skis a year because rocks constantly destroy them. Yet for as bad as it is, the lift lines are always over an hour and the trails are packed. Guess it's becuase they run so slow and the vertical is so small. I'd suggest people stay clear of the place.
post #56 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary
You have really missed IMOHO what the problem was.
I think you really don't know how little you know about snow/ice in the Colorado mountains.

Quote:
An incredible build up of ice on the side walk of the main street of Breckenridge. What I observed was Ice so thick it presented a tripping hazard as well as a slipping problem. Ice 3 to 4 inches thick sprawling across the side walks like the fingers of some ancient glacier.
It's like talking to a brick wall but...

When snow falls, gets plowed, melts a little, falls, gets plowed, melts a little, for a couple months straight. It forms ice underneath the snowpack. The top layer remains snowpack until an extended period of no snow and relative warmth (when you arrived). Then the top layer turns to ice. All the other layers are already ice and so what you end up with is exactly what you describe above. It happens. Wear better shoes.

Quote:
A situation that if I had gotten injured on armed with a few pictures and a few eye wittinesses I would be owning property in Breckenridge real soon!
You really don't understand Colorado liablity laws very well either.

Quote:
Take 15 minutes around 1 or 2 in the afternoon when the temps are close to 40 degrees and the ice is soft grab an ice spud and make the world a safer place for all of us.
You have no clue how difficult it is to remove that much ice. Breck has many, many miles of sidewalks. It takes heavy equipment to remove this type of ice. I watch them do it all the time. Rarely does it occur widespread like you witnessed because rarely do we get two months of snow every day. Usually the ice problems are in very specific shady spots that are easily avoidable.

Are you still ignoring the fact that the exact same problem was happening in Steamboat for the exact same reasons?

Steve
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmcleary
Take 15 minutes around 1 or 2 in the afternoon when the temps are close to 40 degrees and the ice is soft grab an ice spud and make the world a safer place for all of us.
This is actually pretty funny. 15 minutes? I remember one winter deciding to try and clean off about 15 square feet of ice that had formed from ONE snowstorm, and the melt/freeze cycle. It was on my parents' driveway, which was smooth blacktop (i.e. easier to clean than breck's sidewalks). I was 17 or so: which means "young, strong and full of energy." That 15 square feet of less than 1" ice took me nearly an hour and a half - and there were parts that I had to break up with a sledgehammer. I don't know if it's the dry climate or what, but the ice that forms around here from the snow/melt cycle is nearly impervious to being "scraped" off by any hand tool.

I know that you think that "if you stay with it every day, it won't get bad and it won't be that hard." I think that's true in many places, I've been in those places, I've lived in some of them, and you can, with a little daily effort, keep the tide back, so to speak. But for some reason, it doesn't happen that way in the mountains in Colorado. Unless you have heated sidewalks (or good southern exposure and a climate without as much snow/cold as summit county), "a little daily effort" doesn't mean squat. A BIG daily effort would keep the ice in check, but, trust me, there ain't nothing "little" - in either time or effort - about fighting the snow/melt/freeze cycle that happens in the Colorado mountains.

J
post #58 of 77
I've really tried resisting replying to this thread again, but since I live there I feel compelled for some odd reason to reply.

I don't doubt the fact a better job could be done. The ideal solution is to install ice melt systems in the sidewalk like Copper, Keystone, and Vail. Of course it's harder since the town is involved. Really when it comes down to it I don't give a rats ass since I spend 9 months of the year walking on ice. I'm used to it and therefore I assume everyone else should be. (Note to self: not everyone walks on ice 9 months of the year, therefore I should always walk behind a group of hot college girls when on Main St. Catching a fall and potentially saving a life might have some benefits.)

So with regard to ice, I'm apathetic. (By the way, someone please post a link to this thread on TGR so the maggots can get their rocks off laughing at epicski again.) But something bugs me about this thread and I just figured it out. It basically boils down to the whole US attitude that someone else needs to watch your back and make the world a safe, cute, cuddly place. It's not. While I'm sure the point you want to make is that removing snow and ice is a simple thing that should just be done, it just sounds to me like you want the world to hold your hand and protect you from the boogeyman. In turn I equate that with the same mentality as the people who spill hot coffee on themselves and sue McDonalds. That's the kind of crap that pisses me off. Like I said, I don't think that's the point your trying to get across, but it's why the thread rubs me the wrong way.

Hm. Maybe instead of replying to this thread and potentially making myself sound like a whiny bitch I should just invent some studded rubber covers that can be slipped over a pair of shoes. Maybe there's an untapped market of suckers in Breck who'd buy them.
post #59 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview
Are you still ignoring the fact that the exact same problem was happening in Steamboat for the exact same reasons?

Steve
....and Park City and Sun Valley and.....

You should see the glacier I have on my driveway. I've tried MgCL, pick axes, anything I could my hands on. Soon as I make any sort of headway, it snows again and I'm back to square. It's gonna be 'till may before that thing is completely gone.

Powdr
post #60 of 77
Hey, Jake,,, if you ever need to do it again, take 10 seconds and just toss some rock salt on it.
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