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A better way to mount bindings?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
It seems to me like the way bindings are currently mounted just doesn't make sense. A pair of skis can only drilled about 3 times at the most before it becomes useless, and most bindings on the market have little room for adjustment.

Why dont more ski companies adopt the system that line is using, or like K2 does for their telemark skis? What about female threads that you could mount into your skis in various positions so that you can change the binding position to match conditions.

How hard would it be to come up with a standardized hole pattern that all manufacturers could use, and incorporate threads into the skis to match differernt boots sizes and fore/aft positions?
post #2 of 15
Follow the money...

Realize that Line's system wasn't to make it easy for other manufacturers to get their bindings on Line skis - it was for Line to have a marketing point that you would only need one pair of their bindings for multiple Line skis.

The ski/binding systems that become more popular every year help the manufacturers sell both the skis and their own bindings - there's no incentive to come up with a universal system to allow any binding and ski to be teamed up into a system.
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Yea, I guess that is true. What if some one were to make female threaded inserts with threading on the outside as well. These inserts would be mounted into the skis, providing threads to put on/remove bindings whenever you want. Such a system would allow users to easily switch between alpine, at, and tele bindings, and could be place at different positions fore and aft.
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by orygun
Yea, I guess that is true. What if some one were to make female threaded inserts with threading on the outside as well. These inserts would be mounted into the skis, providing threads to put on/remove bindings whenever you want. Such a system would allow users to easily switch between alpine, at, and tele bindings, and could be place at different positions fore and aft.
Yeah, they're called helicoil screw inserts (http://www.tognar.com/binding_tools_...snowboard.html). You could certainly rig this up yourself if you want to.
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler
Yeah, they're called helicoil screw inserts (http://www.tognar.com/binding_tools_...snowboard.html). You could certainly rig this up yourself if you want to.
Helicoils aren't designed to be used like snowboard or Lines inserts. Helicoils don't seal the ski from water and can rip out if abused.

The reason manufacturers don't (and shouldn't) switch to inserts is weight and performance. If you want your skis to be able to fit a wide range of boot sizes you either need long adjustment tracks (like rental/integrated systems) or lots of threaded metal inserts which the factory builds into the ski. Both methods add dead weight to the ski.

If you are going to use rental/integrated bindings there is no point in having inserts in the skis because that is even more dead weight. If you are going to use threaded inserts you would have to have lots of them in the ski to fit the full range of boot sizes. And having your skis peppered with mounting holes is what you were trying to avoid in the first place.

The fact remains that conventional mounting still offers the lightest weight and best coupling between you and the ski. And it also gives the freedom to change your mounting location to your preference (when new). It may be inconvenient if you want to be able to loan you skis to your buddies, but if that is an issue to you just get skis with rental/integrated bindings. Other than that you need to start skiing more so you wear skis out rather than selling them on
post #6 of 15
Also keep in mind that very few non-park/pow skis are offered flat, and most park and pow skis have a limited life simply becasue they're abused more than a pair of carvers.
post #7 of 15

You could..

Mount a modest lifter plate first.

The inexpensive plastic ones are just about throw away items.

They are quite long and allow many "redrills". I have never seen a screw pull out due to "normal use".

karhu makes some, there are others I bet.


CalG
post #8 of 15
You are right. Unless you buy a system with ski and binding together, get Atomic or Tyrolia bindings with their fore/aft adjustment. These won't need to be redrilled. Or, get bindings that mount into a predrilled plate...Salomon's Pilot bindings have several predrilled holes on their plate for different boot sizes. Or install a lifter plate with predrilled holes suitable for your brand of bindings.


Ken
post #9 of 15

vist

I have used the 4 mm VIST plates. They have set fastener locations to mount the plate but you can set a binding mount screw allmost anywhere. They are hollow though, so some locations are better than others. The 2 mm lifter may be solid plastic. Good for screws, but heavy.


Artech has 'em. artechski.com

Regards

CalG
post #10 of 15
Check out VIST's SpeedLock System. It is a plate with holes that accept a VIST binding that has corresponding 'pins', the binding can be moved back and forth or removed fom one ski to another. A Telemark adapter also exists to use a tele binding (one ski, tele or alpine...what kind of turn do you want to make today). there is disscusion of an AT adapter.

The Tyrolia Railflex system is great also, you can mount the rail on anything, but I've seen them develop some 'play' over time.

On the other hand, how many times do you need to remount skis??? Skis don't last forever, there is a usable life span and by the time you're putting a fourth set of holes in them (up to 3 usually is no problem) they are probably shot.
post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 
All good points. The reason I was asking is because I have an old pair of twins that I wanted to experiment with. It seems like the only feasible way is to mount nuts within the ski like they do with snowboards, drilling through the ptex. Adding a plate is also a good idea, and I am toying with the idea so that I can switch between alpine and AT on my new skis. However, there would still be a limited number of times the plate could be remounted/drilled. Although I suppose plate could be periodically switched out.

Thanks for all the input!
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by orygun
Although I suppose plate could be periodically switched out.

Thanks for all the input!
www.mcmaster.com

Search on closed-end rivet nuts. Epoxy these into holes drilled for plate screws.
post #13 of 15
In my view, the trouble with putting a ton of t-nuts into a ski to allow for various bolt-in positions is simply that adding that much hardware to a ski will make it weigh more, and it will screw up it's flex! You'd be taking a ton of wood out of the skis center area to put in solid (non-flexing) metal...not good. And do you REALLY want to see the pulling-up diviots in the ski base that virtually every snowboard suffers from as a result of these T-nuts?

As everyone has already stated, put a plate on the ski. That's one set of holes. Then drill into that.

Or even better, mount a Tyrolia railflex plate onto the ski, so you can use one of their bindings in any number of length/position combinations.
post #14 of 15
I've successfully mounted bindings using threaded inserts on several skis. Look for the pics here:

http://www.telemarkskier.com/cgi-bin...c;f=1;t=002075
post #15 of 15
Sorry for the big bump but I've noticed that the URL above has changed. Try this link instead:

http://www.backcountryworld.com/showthread.php?t=233

I can also report that, over a year later, all the inserts are still working fine.

So that's a big thumb-nose to all those doubters that responded to my first ever post on this forum:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=24968

Thanks for the great welcome guys!
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