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Bode Wisdom? Maybe...

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Wasn't it Bode Miller who was ranting about the merits of the IOC loosening up on its drug test policy a couple of months ago?

I seem to recall that statement was received in absolute horror by the sporting world at large - and for some good reason.

Today I read on the TSN site that a US skeleton racer was just banned for using a hair growth product that contain a banned substance. As a Canadian, part of me doesn't care...but part of me is saddened by the fact that someone's life-long dream has been ruined by what appears to be an honest oversight.

Also in the news today it seems that the goalie for the Montreal Canadiens was busted using the same (or similar) stuff. Talk around him is that he could be in line for a healthy endorsement contract from the manufacturer.

When Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal my country was in mourning - and for good reason - this was an embarasement to our high-held notion of fair play. When Ross Regliabati was stripped (temporarily, thank goodness) of his snowboaring gold we were outraged as well. The difference in the two offenses is glaringly obvious to any intelligent person. A systemic steroid-use program as employed by Ben is not in the same category as having a toke at a wake months before the Olympic games. Thankfully Ross got what was coming to him. I guess so did Ben.

It's too bad for the US skeleton guy that the same reasoning didn't surface here.

Maybe he was using the hair tonic to mask steroid use, maybe this is the tip of the iceberg for a clandestine US skeleton scandal...maybe he was the guy who shot JFK in '63...maybe.

Or maybe the poor guy was just goin' bald. Seems sad. Them's my $.02...
post #2 of 18
if you're going bald, then you have to know that a rug, hair plugs, a hair weave, Nioxin, Rogaine, whatever... they don't change your baldness. they merely change your appearance.

sorta like a facelift.
post #3 of 18
I think Bode has a point. They're going TOO far to control doping, because some of their methods seem degrading and trample all over the athlete's rights and dignity. Check out what happened to Hermann Maier yesterday: http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/3351/ALPINE
Ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it's a Canadian (Dick Pound) who is at the helm, and he's an infamous hardass.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bez
I think Bode has a point. They're going TOO far to control doping, because some of their methods seem degrading and trample all over the athlete's rights and dignity. Check out what happened to Hermann Maier yesterday: http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/3351/ALPINE
Ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it's a Canadian (Dick Pound) who is at the helm, and he's an infamous hardass.
From the article...

They proceeded to the laboratory where official tests are carried out in Sestriere.

"The method was unusual," said Austrian team doctor Wulf Gloetzer. "It's against human rights, the way they did it. It's incredible."

What,did they handcuff Maier and then the Blonde pull his wiener out and spank him until he pissed?
post #5 of 18
Seriously, posing as a fan. Why not just walk into the village unannounced and say we need to have you complete a drug test?

I posed this question on another forum, but it would likely get answered better here.... what is the benifit that could be gained in slalom giant or superG from takiong sterroids? Seriously - not a lot of endurance required in a 90 second run. Not a lot of brute force required....

Bode has this one right.
post #6 of 18
I just can't get it as far as those guys who continue to take drugs without checking with their team doctors be it for an innocent cold or hair loss. We are dealing with athletes who are told over and over what the rules are. Drug testing need to be aggressive to get at the cheaters and to protect the innocent. Miller, Maier and Kjus can complain all they want, and I know it is very invading, but it is working. How would you feel if you were Becky Scott who won her gold at Salt Lake, but had to wait a month or two to get it because the two russians ahead of her had cheated? I am sure it would have been a lot more fun to be on the top step than in third at the actual time they gave out the medals and played the anthem.
post #7 of 18
Bode has said he fears someone could one day make him test positive by putting something in his food, no doubt one of the reasons he has a motorhome. When there are so many banned substances, with the health risks or performance benefits associated with them dubious at best for a lot of them, I'm sure an accidental positive test or sabotaged food is a very real fear to a lot of athletes.

While drug testing may be working, at what cost are we willing to pay (or have our athletes pay for us) in order to have "fair" competitions?
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by goriders
A systemic steroid-use program as employed by Ben is not in the same category as having a toke at a wake months before the Olympic games. Thankfully Ross got what was coming to him. I guess so did Ben....
THC, tetrahydracannibinol (the active chemical in marijuana), is a fat soluble substance which stays in the tissues of the human body for around 30 days. If Ross had a few tokes MONTHS before the Olympics, it wouldn't have shown on his drug test. I have no problem with people smoking pot, and I don't care if Olympic atheletes use it, but if the story was that he'd used it MONTHS previously to the test, I gotta call bull pucky.
post #9 of 18
I believe the "official" story with Ross in 1998 was that he had been in a gondola at Whistler shortly before going to the Olympics and someone in this gondola were smoking pot. So his trace amount was attributed to second hand smoke!!
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norefjell
I believe the "official" story with Ross in 1998 was that he had been in a gondola at Whistler shortly before going to the Olympics and someone in this gondola were smoking pot. So his trace amount was attributed to second hand smoke!!
That's the story, and he's sticking to it.

Though I'm being a smart ass, I really think that the puritanical fervor of the anti-drug cult (yeah they like to define themselves as NORMAL and HEALTHY school of thought is obscene. Yes, there are drugs that can supercharge the human body, yes there are drugs that can kill you dead (mostly pedaled by Lilly and Phizer pharmaceutical, but we'll save the Bushwhacking for the lounge), yes there are drugs that can inspire you to eat junk food and have fun sliding on snow before taking a nap, but please, wipe the saliva from the muzzle before reading the charges.:
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norefjell
I just can't get it as far as those guys who continue to take drugs without checking with their team doctors be it for an innocent cold or hair loss.
If you were familier with US bobsled/skele, you know there isn't a big high and mighty team doctor to go to. You'd also know that Zach is tested regularly (randomy, just like all worldcup athletes (even those no longer competing) and he wasn't banned before. Why would it be a problem now?
post #12 of 18
RJP:

It is my understanding that any athlete who is on the national team in any US sport has access to the Olympic Training Center Staff. That includes a doctor that he/she can talk to. If that is not the case for the Bobsled/Luge team, then I am obviously misinformed. As to "high and mighty doctors" I can personally attest to that some of the team doctors work extremenly hard for a lot less pay than what they could make in regular practice. Most of them like working with athletes and feel that they contribute to their success.

I can't say why there was a problem with Zach's tests now. He sounds like an honest person who is fighting hair loss. However, for the sake of the argument, say for instance that this hair loss product was found to be an excellent masking agent for some other performance enchancing drug then maybe the dosage had been increased over the last month.
post #13 of 18
if you can provide a good reason on how steriod would increase skele performance to a level that would make it reasonable to take the risk of taking them, then I'll be impressed.

I've spent time at both the training center in lake placid and in colorado springs, the skele team spends little time at LP and none at C-springs or Chula Vista. Zach could have found a doctor, there is no doubt. My point was that there isn't someone there all the time nor are they at a training center for most of the year (a week or two tops).
post #14 of 18
So, this athlete was taking a hair loss product..maybe it is used to mask some performance enhancing drug, but I cannot see how they cannot then do a test for the performance enhancing drug.

Not only does the whole world now knows that he takes a hair loss product (that he is embarassed about his hair loss), but he can no longer compete? doesn't make sense to me.
post #15 of 18
RJP
Point well taken. As far as luge and performance enhancing drugs I can't say I am all that familiar with the specific skills or strengths required for that sport. But I do know that it is a sport where 1/100's make a difference. So if you could gain a little at the start by getting faster and a little by say being generally stronger to hold your form better this is where I see performance enhancing drugs could be used.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyG
I posed this question on another forum, but it would likely get answered better here.... what is the benifit that could be gained in slalom giant or superG from takiong sterroids? Seriously - not a lot of endurance required in a 90 second run. Not a lot of brute force required....
I completely disagree - have you ever seen the thighs of Bode, Daron, or any of the other ski teamers? Do they just get that way on their own, or do the athletes spend the entire off season working out to build strength and endurance?

I think brute strength is probably the most important thing for the skiers to develop in their conditioning program. Skiing is not an endurance sport like running a marathon, but I think that skiers still need "muscle endurance" - the ability to hold a tuck for 90 seconds - or try to. I'm sure others know more than me, but that's my take.
post #17 of 18
First off, I think the guy if he wanted to could have called a team USA doctor and found out some info.

Second, I talked to my aunt who was a scoring official for the 2002 Salt Lake luge, bobsled, and skele. She said while luge isn't as much as an influance bobsled and skele would be huge. Skele you get a running start before diving head first into the track, just like ben johnson got a sprinting advantage from sterroids so too would the sports with running starts.

Don't get me wrong I think skiing is a very demanding and dangerous sport at the world level, but I don't think there is the same thing to be gained from sterroids in the downhil mode of skiing as there are in the skeleton, bobsled, football, or baseball. We are not talking about muscling the course. However, I concede that I know far less about downhill than anyone who follows it regularly. If someone wishes to prove me wrong, I'm all for it.
post #18 of 18

Stronger IS better

Folks, to say that steroids won't help performance is irrelevant.

Steroids will help you get back into the gym far sooner. You can work harder with less requirement for rest, because you heal up much quicker.

It's not fair to use drugs because the users can train hard daily. The clean athletes need to periodize their work and spend some time recuperating.

I knew a fellow that did a 6 week steroid cycle (football player).

8 hours/day in the weight room, 42 days straight.

He did leg presses with the entire stack on the machine, MANY sets/day, EVERYDAY for 6 weeks. (He did not bother counting how many sets he did. He honestly did not care, 'cuz he could do it basically all day long.)

An 8 hour's sleep was all he needed for FULL recovery. A clean athlete could in no way do the same volume of work. They'd need at least 40 weeks to push that much iron.

Now before you all go off, you don't have to train purely for strength. You can also train for muscle speed/endurance. It's the healing power of steroids that makes any training more effective.
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