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Boot DUH Question?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I thought my boots were just fine until I got on this forum. Then I realized that my 6 year old boots were packed out and my foot moves around way too much, so while I'm boot shopping I'm using an extra sock. It works but not ideal.

So I found a reputable boot fitter. He was kind enough to ask me about the boots I'm interested in and tried to fit me for two of the three I had in mind (lange CRL 90, CRL 80, He didn't have the Atomic boot I was thinking about)
My (extremely narrow) foot just wasn't happy in the Langes, which surprised me because I loved the current langes I'm using. It felt like there were bad pressure points in a couple of different areas.

He asked me if I'd be open minded about trying something else. Why not!? So he puts a Nordica Beast 12 on my foot. It was a little too snug in my opinion, but the fitter took the liner out and checked for the appropriate shell sizing and, with the lining put back in, the boot hugged my foot like it was made for me.

So here are my questions:
How snug should a boot really be? I couldn't wiggle my toes.
I usually wear a 7.5 womens shoe and this boot was more like a 6.5.

My other question is...Are the Beast 12's warm? I am prone to cold toes and fingers and will NOT be happy with a cold boot that won't allow room for toe warmers when necessary.

I see that some boots advertise a warmer liner. Is that just an advertising ploy or are they really warmer?

I think that is all my Duh's(?) for now. I'm sure I'll think of more.
post #2 of 19
Snug, snug snug! Your bootfitter sounds like he's giving you good advice, he's shell fitting the boot, and you would be going down at LEAST one size from your street shoe or you're going to be back in the same boat (big ski boot) soon. I'm surprised that he has you in a Nordica Beast 12 if you have a narrow foot, as these are reputed to be a bit wide, and were wide on me. Here's a link to boofitter's reviews, click on women's all-mountain:

http://www.bootfitters.com/boot_reviews.htm

But, if the boot fits that's all that counts. I'm going to recommend my personal favorite of my try-ons this year - the Salomon Rush. I tried the Rush 8s. The 9s are stiffer and got very good reviews for performance. They are tight and demanding. The 8s were still really snug, but have more padding - probably warmer, too .
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
I was surprised at the Nordica(of any model) too! I've never been able fit anything from their line. The fitter seemed like he knew what he was talking about. He said that it seemed that people who have a narrow foot but a high arch like the Beast 12, and that's why he gave it a whirl.
IMO, if your feet aren't comfortable, your whole body is uncomfortable so I will take this purchase seriously.

Thanks for the other boot suggestions. I will certainly try them too!
post #4 of 19
1-2 cm shell fit

cold = lack of blood cirulation = make sure you have room for your instep.

nordica make good boots (as do all other companies) but if they dont fit your foot then they are worthless
post #5 of 19
From a bootfitting perspective, two weeks ago I was at the same point you now are, although, I didn't find a decent local bootfitter. Everyone local wanted to put me in a 27.0, down from my then current 27.5. However, the shell sizing was always 2+ fingers. Took a gamble, and ordered a 26.5 online, in a brand and model that showed promise at a local store, albeit in a 27.0. The local guy didn't have the smaller shell. In what I picked, the 26.5 was a shell size down from the 27.0. From what I understand, most manufacturers change shell size on the even sizes only, making up the half sizes with liner/footbed modifications.

I really thought I made a mistake when I first put them on. The shell size was correct, according to what the Bear community was saying, but boy they were snug, snug, snug. That said, they weren't so tight as to cause toe curl. I took the stock footbed out, and wore them around the house for an evening with no sock, gradually tightening the buckles every half hour. The next evening, I put a decent, stock aftermarket footbed in (I need arch support) and again wore them around the house for a bit. The next night, I added the thinest sock I own. Finally, last night I had them on the hill for the first time. As I indicate in another thread, wow. For the first time, the skis feel like they are an integral extension of my body. Before, it was like the skis were loosely duct taped to my foot. Now, it has become part of my foot.

By the end of the evening, the liners were beginning to pack to the point where I could ever so slightly wiggle my toes. That said, at no point were they uncomfortable. Again, I snugged up the buckles after the first hour of skiing, a practice that worked for me with my old boots. Too tight, too early, always resulted in pain.

Good luck. It sound like you are on the right path, and have a good bootfitter guiding you.
post #6 of 19
It would be helpful to know what the previous lange model was and also how the shell fit was in them (liner out as the fitter did). When shell fitting the boot you and the bootfitter should pay attention not just to the length but also extra width in the boot and room over the instep as they are just as important. Do you use footbeds and are you shell fitting with the footbeds in place?

If you have a high instep as alluded to you might try the Salomon course (jnr) for a narrow foot or an XWave for wider.

Trying on a boot and feeling 'a couple of pressure points' is not necessarily a bad thing. If for instance you have bunions it would be expected and preferable to feel pressure points there. Boots are not designed to fit bunions but can and should be modified for such as opposed to simply going to an overall roomier fit when only one little spot needs it. Pressure around the toes can often be due to the liner and can easily be modified. Maybe try the langes again but use the liner from the next shell size up and see if that gets rid of the 'pressure points'. That would indicate an easily modified liner solution that would get you into the right shell.

Pressure over the insteps is a different animal and not as easily dealt with and may indicate a different boot shape. That means one accomodating the instep specifically as opposed to a large bucket offering tons of room everywhere and leading to it's own set of problems sooner or later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick
I was surprised at the Nordica(of any model) too! I've never been able fit anything from their line. The fitter seemed like he knew what he was talking about. He said that it seemed that people who have a narrow foot but a high arch like the Beast 12, and that's why he gave it a whirl.
IMO, if your feet aren't comfortable, your whole body is uncomfortable so I will take this purchase seriously.

Thanks for the other boot suggestions. I will certainly try them too!
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion
cold = lack of blood cirulation = make sure you have room for your instep.
It's not just when in a ski boot, it's always when I'm out and about. The only boot that has kept my toes warm consistently are my classic Uggs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L7
Do you use footbeds and are you shell fitting with the footbeds in place?

If you have a high instep as alluded to you might try the Salomon course (jnr) for a narrow foot or an XWave for wider.
This is why I ask in this forum. So much more information that I could get locally.
No I don't use foot beds, maybe I should

My old boot was a bargain Lange F6. Suited me well while I was playing dumb. The shell fits big(now that I know what a shell fit is all about.) The Fitter definitely fit my shell to the Nordica beast 12 in all areas. Took a lot of time. Sides, back, forward angle, standing straight. (he didn't hang me upside down, should he have done that too?)
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick
IMO, if your feet aren't comfortable, your whole body is uncomfortable so I will take this purchase seriously.
IMO, too .
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick
No I don't use foot beds, maybe I should
Yes, yes you should. Surefoot's off-the-shelf are better than what comes with the boot. A custom footbed, done by nearly any shop is nearly always "better than nothing." A well-done custom footbed, done by someone extremely experienced and crafty in the art is a miracle to behold.

J
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick
(he didn't hang me upside down, should he have done that too?)
That's only for after the boots (and everything else) have come off and strictly between consenting adults.

Sounds like you're in good hands (depending on how hanging upside down goes) and he's sorting things out. As Mtnlion said, a warm boot is the one that fits correctly and allows all of the needed blood flow.
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake75
Yes, yes you should. Surefoot's off-the-shelf are better than what comes with the boot. A custom footbed, done by nearly any shop is nearly always "better than nothing." A well-done custom footbed, done by someone extremely experienced and crafty in the art is a miracle to behold.

J
Another point to keep in mind is that the footbed can alter the general fit of the boot. For example, a custom footbed could raise your arch, reducing the total length of your foot, and/or raise your instep. So if the shop has someone qualified to properly fit a footbed, I think it's best to confirm the fit with the footbed installed before finalizing the boot selection and size.

After just going through the great boot search myself, I'd also loudly echo the advice you've received from others: the boots will NEVER again be as snug as they are in the shop. Avoid getting the boots too large. The liner will compress significantly. I would also suggest trying on the boots with very thin socks.

I was really surprised how much room I gained in my new boots after only a few hours of skiing.

Take your time. Get it right.
post #12 of 19
Sounds like the OP has a thorough bootfitter. Concerns about warmth etc should be discussed with the bootfitter, as they are legitimate. For the record, Atomics are regarded as a "cold" boot. Mine certainly are! Although their original footbed came wired up for bootheaters.
post #13 of 19
For the record once again a boot that fits poorly may well be cold. Atomics previously had metal plates under the boot board to attach the heel and toe lugs. Not all boots had this plate and none of them have a metal plate anymore. The boot that fits will be warmest regardless of what 'some' people may consider them to be.
post #14 of 19
I'd advise an extra soft plug if your foot is extremely narrow. If you have a high instep, a Lange RL11 is a good choice. The ZB/ZB flex should be good, ZA/ZA (kids) might be too soft. Another option would be the dobermann wc 100, although the instep on that boot is considerably lower.

A beast 12 will not hold your foot at all once it packs out.
post #15 of 19
Actually, L7, my Atomics fit great. After 3 seasons (worn every day) I still do the buckles up on the first tooth. They have packed out a bit, but since the shell fits, it doesn't matter that much.
But they are a cold boot, and other people with Atomics make similar comments. Doesn't matter enough to not buy them but for someone with cold prone feet, it's something to consider.
post #16 of 19
Again, metal plates in some boots in the past and quite likely yours. No more metal plates. Although your experience with your boots and even experience of others you've spoken too are one thing it is still quite different to make a blanket statement stated in a way to cover all Atomic past and present boots. For the record my past Atomic boots transfered cold through the bottom of my foot corresponding to the plates, my new ones do not.
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick
So I found a reputable boot fitter. He was kind enough to ask me about the boots I'm interested in and tried to fit me for two of the three I had in mind (lange CRL 90, CRL 80, He didn't have the Atomic boot I was thinking about)
My (extremely narrow) foot just wasn't happy in the Langes, which surprised me because I loved the current langes I'm using.
How narrow is extremely narrow? The "Medium Fit" Langes you're looking at may be more normal than narrow. I'm a men's 10.5 B, in a 9.5 CRL90, and it's still pretty wide. Going to pad this year, and maybe see about a "Low Fit" Lange next year (or just start from scratch like you). I've read a few posts here about them getting fatter over the years.

As for the packing out, I can only echo and emphasize what others have said. Mine packed out a lot, and quickly - and it's not like I'm some Sumo wrestler.
post #18 of 19
Nordica makes some boots that ski very well (sounds funny, but some brands sell better than they ski). A bootfitter can always make the boot bigger but can't make them smaller. The boot you tried on sounds just about right. After they heat-fit the liner and punch out the shell to relieve any tight spots you will probably have control you never new existed. Note--Nordica uses a plastic that pulls back into the original position after being heated and punched out. Your bootfitter probably knows this and knows how to keep the boot in the shape you need.

For your cold feet, first try the boot glove which is a neoprene outer cover for the boots. If that is not enough, buy electrically heated insoles. If you have room for heat packs inside the boots, you'll be slopping around inside those boots and never ski your best.


Ken
post #19 of 19
I have found success with junior boots. A shorter cuff is a great feature for me (I'm 5'2).

Try everything!
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