Constructive thoughts on the Code

The answer to your questions, Mollmeister, are not simple. The simple answer is experience. I rarely see, hear of, or am involved in incidents with advanced skiers. Same thing goes for well-seasoned intermediates. Like any activity, those who spend a great deal of time participating in it learn the rules of the road. Hell, skill level isn't even a reliable measure -- I've taught longtime skiers to snowboard, and they observe the Code to a T even as they catch edges and mousetrap all over the beginner area!

This past weekend, I hooked up with a group of kids from Newschoolers.com for a run through the park. To my delight, they sent one person forward to each feature to act as a spotter, they all pulled over to the side of the trail whenever they stopped, and they generally acted like mature, responsible adults. In the meantime, a couple other skiers (not in our group) who obviously did not belong in the advanced park came clipping through, jumping blind, wrecking themselves and then planting themselves on blind landings as they collected themselves.

The only difference I could see in the two groups was experience.

The reason the simple answer doesn't work for me is that whether or not one is experienced should not have an effect on the normal cognitive function of the average adult. No matter if it's the 1st day or the 101st of one's season, the realization that doing 60 mph through a crowded beginner zone is unsafe should be a no-brainer.

I think we'll get along just fine!

As for my input on the code:
I've explained this in two other threads and I still believe it will work if we can get the resorts to go along with it.

When I learned to ski...20 something years ago.:
The two ski resorts I cut my teeth on, had parts of the CODE posted on the chair lift poles.
Very simple
Downhill skier always has the right of way.
Always be aware of uphill skiers when starting out.
Always ski in control.
to name a few of the postings.

If you hand me a piece of paper in the lodge and tell me to read it, the paper goes in my car til the end of the day. You put it in front of me while I'm on the ride up the hill, I'll read it and remember it.

Today the resorts have ads for chapstick and hand cream in those spots on the lift poles.
I wonder if the resorts know the impact the Code on the lift poles made on me?

When I taught my little sister, neice and nephew to ski I taught them the code. Who's teaching the kids out there today?

good stuff

your on point mollmeister,

right now i'm working with kids from our SOS program, and my fellow instructor uses a cool acronym which the kids seem to remember for the "mountain safety code"

"SAY SLOW"

Ski/Snowboard in control.
Avoid downhill skiers/snowboarders.
Yield when merging.

Stop in areas where you can be seen.
Learn how to use the lifts.
Obey all posted signs.
Wear leashes always.

It has been working effectively.

Recently a couple of little brilliant students brought to my attention the 8th rule of the code that is often overlooked:

8) Have fun.

They should just ban all snowboarders from the mountains...

Ok, jk. All I ride is a snowboard or splitboard as it may be. Signage definitely helps raise awareness. The other thing is that ski patrol is reluctant to pull a ticket or pass for those skiing/boarding too fast or out of control. I think the main reason is that they are afraid of losing business. Quite frankly, if some yahoo is bombing down the mountain with crowded slopes, they should just yank the ticket or in the case of pass holders suspend it for a couple of weeks. That sort of thing will make habitual offenders think a bit more about what they do.
I know that these high speed collisions are part of the reason I have almost gone 100% BC. I have no problems riding at high speeds or any terrain w/o hitting anyone, but I am also willing to put on the brakes and even take the board off and walk because I had to stop. It's better than getting in a collision. Unfortunately, anyone else can blindside you...

it isn't the Code that is busted.

it's the idea that people should know it.

Unfortunately we have no control over whether others will follow, or even comprehend the code. I ski defensively when on-piste. This leads me to my own "experts" skiers code (in no particular order).

Ski faster than most others on the slope (if you are passed, that person is probably good).
Be aware of skiers in every direction around you.
Ski predictably and adapt to traffic conditions.
Look uphill and to the side before changing your line or stopping.
Be visible and don't hang out in congested traffic zones, intersections and exposed lift lines.
Look uphill before merging...twice.
Avoid beginner or intermediate slopes.
Whenever possible, avoid skiing on designated trails and slopes
Be bigger than anyone who would crash into you.
Don't ski East of 105 degrees West (Colorado).

I agree with trekchick, put the code back on the lift poles. In fact keep the sponors and add the code. "Chapstick presents the Skier's Code". When I started 10 years ago, at age 20, I would have never read the back of my lift ticket and growing up in a non-skiing family I would have never been told the code so when I saw these rules on the lift towers it left an impression with me. The code is common sense, but for me it wasn't until I read it.

hey we must be part of the same underground movement, those look like my rules. only at 155 lbs I can't really do the "be bigger than" unless I ski with only selected people.

We (Winter Park/Mary Jane) have started posting the code incorporated into the on mountain slope maps - it's a start anyway.

Additionally, during children's lessons, we incorporate as much of the code as the kids can (hopefully) retain.

I noticed last Sunday at Brighton, that they had posters up on several walls with a Snowboarder's Code.

"Start off easy with your jumps", I seem to remember. The last part was "Respect causes respect, in the line and on the slope".

So few people ski at Brighton any more that I don't think they need to bother with a skiers' code.

I don't leave it up to the other person to be aware, if I did, well?

Hide behind a tree or some barrier when stopped on the side of the trail.
Stick a pole out if someone come's close.
Ski faster than everyone else, but ski in control, that way they'll never get you from behind.

Take control of your own safety, don't rely on other people to obey the skiers code.

It's like driving: when you come to an intersection, slow down, don't rely on the other drivers to be making the right decisions, rely on yourself.

Your talking about the "Smart Style" terrain park stuff. It does not replace the Code. It adds to it and is not sliding tool specific.

At my new home Mt, on the corner of the day tickets their is a triangular tear off that says "I Ski Safely". Anyone can rip it off and those without one get quized by the lifties, patrolers, and others about the code. If patrol has to have a talk with you and you are missing the corner the talk may be less "guest friendly".

So far I have not observed ads on chair towers anywhere in the PNW. I have, however, seen the code on towers at Stevens Pass this season. Every place should do it.

I agree with the idea that folks either simply do not know the code or care to observe it.


People are motivated to do something either within (self reasons) or via external means (money--not going to jail). For the latter group--what motive is there to 1) read the code, 2) obey the code.

I don't see a problem with the code as it is. Yes there could be some minor changes or influences to the written/oral word. But in my mind this is 1% of the problem....99% is folks are not motivated.

1) Provide incentive to read---$ 5 dollars off lift ticket if you watch a sliding video on saftey---show injuries and discuss lawsuits that have been filed. Show examples of what giving right of way is....is it one foot of clearance or 20 feet? When I took driving safety, we had to watch Rt 66---some of you older folks may recall it. Or "Blood on the Highway".

2) Enforce the code. Our hill has saftey patrolers (not ski patrol), but I dont see a lot of folks getting "pulled over".

What motivates or demotivates Ski Mgmt from enforcing?

Lawsuits: The more you enforce, the more you are expected to enforce.

Income: If the hill is percieved as being a police state, and other hills close by do not police as strictly as your hill...income leaves.

If all hills police the same, and some folks don't like the police state of sliding sports--they leave.



But then, skiers like my wife have missed plenty of days (not purchasing tickets) because the hill was filled with "young" wild skiers/boarders.


The best thing I believe that can be done--proactively is closing off more runs to "family friendly skiing" and actively policing these slopes AND--making sure the Park and Pipe areas have lots of snow, music, activity to keep the teens corralled at will.

Funny you should mention that. That's the real reason I teach in the children's program!

Making people be safe

You can punish people who violate the code or reward people who know it. Pulling tickets is not in the resorts best interest. What may work is printing the code on the back of the lift ticket and telling everyone (via posters or whatever) that there will be one or two tickets with the code printed out of order etc. and the person with this ticket will recieve a free pass or free lunch etc. This way at least people will read the code. Making the code a part of state law is also a good idea. I don't understand why people would engage in a sport without wanting to know the rules.

I keep a 10 foot safety zone around myself in regards to other skiers. I am always willing to stop uphill from other skiers if I see any kind of problem (a skier is down etc.). I am also willing to wait at the top of a run for it to thin out. Personally, I think speed is a very good defense except when a run is congested. I will always stop or slow down when I feel another skier close to me. I try and avoid skiing directly uphill from anyone regardless of how far down the slope they are from me. I try not to stop in the trees and if I do I will get as close as I safely can to the downhill side of the base.

cirquerider

It's best said as "Keep It Simple Stupid" .... (not you) .... the code.

Some of what you say sounds good in theory but simple is still best.

As an example "be aware of skiers in every direction" There is a huge and fundamental flaw in that. I'd be spending constant time on the wrong edge with the wrong body articulation. Try looking over your shoulder. It is the "kiss of death" on skis. Same with boarders in a backside turn (into the blind spot).

"Ski predictably", another problem area. If I am doing short radius turns and ahead I see some "blue glare" ice ahead of me, I may break into a traverse or change my radius in order to avoid it. If you timed your pass to match my short radius, we'd probably collide.

Like Helluva, I try to time my pass as you initiate and are commited to a turn, that is statistically the best avoidance practice other than distance.

Personally .... I use a lot of "traffic management". I look for holes and usually on the blacks, there are lots of them. When you see a bunch of then coming at you and it looks like a "squad of monkeys and all eleven are trying to f_ck the football" ..... start down quick cause' they can't catch you ... or ... let them pass; the hole will open again in a minute, half will be down and half will have had a yard sale.

I have seen the code on napkins and cups at some resorts. Do you think this works? Or should that money be spent elsewhere?

When I learned to ski 38 years ago : my parents were skiers and taught me the code. But I also think that the code was in line with the way people generally behaved: common courtesy was the rule. My parents EXPECTED us to follow the code or there would be hell to pay (nope, they didn't beat us, they gave us extra chores and took away all our privileges! ). Heck, they expected us to behave in similar ways OFF the mountain. Know what I mean? I went to a private school that had an honor code, my college had it too. I liken the skier's code to an honor code. You just abided by it because it was the right thing to do. (Jeez, I sound so self-righteous, but really, that's not the case. : )

What I see today:

1) Many younger people who ski/snowboard aren't with their families because their families don't ski/snowboard. So they are not learning the code from anyone, because it's just a bunch of younger people out together, hanging with each other, maybe teaching each other, etc. (if your family doesn't ski/ride, chances are good they are not paying for you to take a lesson where you would potentially learn the code). So, who will teach them the code? Will they read posted signs? Hard to say. I know the terrain parks have the Smart Style signs, but I can't honestly tell you how effective they are. Does anyone know? I think the safest parks are the ones where resort employees who are park riders hang out and give the kids tips, make sure they know how to ride the park safely, etc. There is someone there to back up the message on the signs, and it's not done in an "in your face" way. How do we extend this to the rest of the mountain? Do we have mountain hosts who are teens/young adults (as opposed to older adults) to hook up with the groups of kids?

2) I hate to say this, but a large segment of my generation has done a terrible job of raising our kids to be responsible and courteous young people. A lot of things got lost along the way between when I was a kid and now that I have kids (stepkids, but still my responsibility as an adult and parent to raise them right). How do we fix that? Because a large part of what we see on the mountain is a result of this. I've had kids at the mountain tell me off and I cannot tell you how many times patrollers at Jay have stopped unruly skiers/riders and been told off. Sure, if things escalate, you take the ticket and put them on the "ban" list. But where does this kind of reaction come from to start with? We've lost our sense of decency somewhere. Kind of an aside story, but related: One of the 20-something patrollers used to be a high school math teacher (till he decided he couldn't take the darn kids anymore : ). One day, he called a parent because a kid was out of control and using profanity, telling him off and so forth. Know what the parent said? "My kid didn't do anything wrong. You probably dserved it. Don't effing call me back ever again." And he hung up! So, some (many?) parents aren't reinforcing what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior. Which leads me back to this: How do we force unruly skiers/riders to be responsible and considerate when there's no backup? :

That example of the parent and teacher also shows another problem: Sometimes, the troublemakers and unruly people on the slopes are ADULTS, not kids! Really, we can't focus just on the kids because this is about a pervasive attitude in society.

At resorts near more populated areas, police on the mountain have become a common sight because of this (personally, I HATE that idea). But if you look at more remote resorts, like Jay, the town doesn't have its own police officers, it's the state police who patrol an entire region and while they are "on call" if they are needed, it could take 30 minutes or more to get to the mountain. By then, the unruly person is often long gone, simply because you can't expect patrollers to hold a person if they are in personal danger of being beaten up (I'm not joking about the personal danger) or if the person in question just chooses to walk off. Patrollers are NOT police, they cannot force a person to do anything, they can just hope the person will be reasonable once confronted.

What you have are two groups: the people who apologize and act reasonable when told the error of their ways and the people who just get amped up and more out of hand. For some reason, there are more and more people who fall into that second category of people.

All that is to say I don't know how to fix this second problem, which greatly contributes to the overall problem of people not skiing/riding safely on the mountain and putting themselves and others at risk.

How do we enforce the code? Do we want police on the mountain? Do we really want the mountains to become like our highways? Can we expect to have someone ticket skiers/riders who don't follow the code? Do we have a hierarchy of offenses? Who gets a ticket and who doesn't? Do you get a ticket for skiing just a little bit out of control but you didn't hit or hurt anyone, just startle them? Maybe that person just gets "community service" and has to talk to other skiers/riders about the code? Do you get a ticket when you hit someone, even though it was a complete accident, no one is hurt and you both get up and ski away? What happens if you are still learning, get on a trail too steep, realize you're in over your head but there's not way to get to easier terrain without going down the trail, and you fall and hit someone?

You know, this doesn't sound like recreating anymore.

Thatsagirl

I think the major problem is the general publics lack of respect for the dangers of skiing. I think all the way until you hit about level 7 or more people have no understanding as to the dangers involved with skiing. While they may know about Sunny Bono, they just think he was being stupid, skiing through trees and hit one and since that was his fault, they don't worry about it. I mean, when Bode came out and said he skiied drunk I had friends who were like Big Fricken Deal. People think it's much like playing a recreational ball based sport. They don't realize it's more akin to driving a car or motorcycle.

I know the mountain doesn't want to over impress the dangers of skiing as it will likely scare away some business. However, I think people need to realize this. I think maybe the best way to impress upon people the 'code' would be that when they RENT skis they have to be read or better yet, be read, a condensed 2 minute version of the code, and impress upon them the dangers of skiing. I say doing this in the rental shop will affect the more casual skiier, who needs to be targeted, and the advanced skiier who owns their equipment has likely at some point been instructed about the rules of the road, and understands them.

I'll tell you right now, I ignore just about every sign posted on the lift poles. Not that I break those rules, I am just saying I just don't pay a lot of attention to them.

EDIT: I would like to whole heartedly agree with the person above who posted the general failures of parrents of the baby boom generation - and what ever generation was after that. Sorry guys, you as a whole, failed. I my self am a 'well adjusted' 22 year old who has respect for authority and elders. However I know tons of kids who know right from wrong, but just don't feel like doing the right thing. There is just as much blame to be placed on parents as on society, and even the kids. If I can turn out right, respect my parents, authority, and people who I don't know or have never seen - it's possible to raise someone right. People are too afraid of confronting young people today, and that's a huge problem. I now will turn my soap box back in. - Before you get on me for being an ungreatful youth who wants to blame everything else, I am not accusing you in the personal sense, but saying that the you in the general sense is a huge part of the problem that no one acknowledges.

We could teach the boarders to read (just joking).

Seriously though I think it's a lack of respect, not only for the dangers of skiing due to ignorance, but also a lack of respect for other people in general that is permeating society. Just take a look at kids tv programing. If you include the adults on these shows and movies, how many adults are worthy of respect?

What to do? Put the code on signs where it will be read going up the lift.
Start fostering an attitude of respect for others.

TV is not the problem here. We all don't need another crusade to save us from the evils of TV. We need a crusade for better real life parents. How many adults in real life are worthy of respect? sadly, not enough.

All of this being said, I had an intersting conversation in my Psych class. The prof asked people to raise their hand if they respected their parents. 80%. Asked people if they feared their parents 50%. Asked people if they reveared the parents 30%. Basically kids don't respect their parent on their actions or integrity anymore. They fear them because they control them.

Code in short.
Ski and Ride so you never hit anything that will hurt your body or your bank account.

put the code on TV

Shorten the freakin CODE. Half the crap on there is useless. Get the important stuff out to the young radicals - in bold print.

Put in print where kids hang out. Use the "carrot" not the "switch". Help the little #u@kers learn the Code and practice it. Most of these kids aren't that bad. Kids love leadership.

An addition to the code,

Thou shall not ski the edges of the slpoes fast when it's icy.

PSIA/AASI could buy "MTV" time and have m$m, ludakrisis, and public enema, do a little rappah thang.

Yuki, of course the modified code doesn't work for you. Your're skiing East of W105 degrees longitude. Its really pretty easy to track all traffic on a slope if you ski the west, stick to diamonds or off-piste and are faster than all others. I'm not proposing it as THE code, but as an experts alternative. It is what I do defensively, so I don't rely on others knowledge or observance of the code.
I can look over my sholder without falling

Ice? Whats ice?
Turns? Ya gotta catch me first. Ain't happening :

The 105 degree west solution, combined with slope selection works here.

Works for me, but for the most part, we ski on a different planet.

I think there are a few things going on here and many good points made. We have clearly become a "me first" & "in your face" society these days. So the code, to some, becomes second to "getting mine".

Some (mostly younger I've noted) don't even think it applies to them. Some don't know what the code contains, why its there or in some cases that one even exists. The code mostly came about because of the Skier Safety Act. Well with all this Extreme stuff going on these days...it's no wonder it isn't well known.

On a side note I think the numbers of collisions we are seeing is a result of demographics (no, not the graphics on a demo ski) and gear. There is a relativly new skier/boarder out there that improved quickly on the new gear and notices there may be a little defficiency in skill---right when it's a little too late. The mileage it took most of us to get to our present skill level, is missing.

I think the overall code covers most areas pretty effectivly. I would like to see one change though..As best as I can tell all the rules carry the same weight legally...Starting w/o looking is the same as skiing under control enough to avoid objects (etc) . I'd like to see the code revised from most important to least important to cover the question of the skiier crashing into someone ahead of him (for example) where the person below was totally in a blind spot...Then we would all know who was "more at fault". I think that would go a long ways in establishing conduct on the hill..

As to how to get the word out, I've seen it on towers, napkins, trail maps, lift tickets and magazines....and here on Epic.....from the mouths of patrollers and from Ski Instructors and Ambassadors. We haven't tried loud speakers yet...and printing it on the floor as you enter the base lodge, restraurants and bars. Skywriter ?

Are there really places that have put adverts on their lift towers? Oh god, don't tell me this is happening here? (In Korea, I know)

-D

How about eye level above the urinal, not enough time. Ok in the stall on the back of the door, couldn't read it, the print would have to be too small to fit.

The All East pass requires a signature that you have read and will abide. I bet most of the kids took a look and said - I already have a book.

Maybe EPIC could help the cause. It could be printed and included as part of the registration. TGR might be a better place for that. They still wouldn't read it - too long!