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EpicSki Members and Powers That Be- Time to consider further action against SCSA - Page 3

post #61 of 83
I met him briefly before the incident in the lodge and he seemed like a good guy. After the lodge incident I was walking back to my car and he was sitting on his car obviously disgusted with himself. I didin't know what had happened on the mountain and asked him what the fiasco was about in the lodge. He was cursing himself out saying that he lost control and shouldn't have done that, etc. I have no prior history with the guy, but I think down inside he's a good person. I hope he gets the help he needs.
post #62 of 83
Cry me a river!
post #63 of 83
I always liked SCSA's contributions and never had any difficulty with him, but I understand others did. While I think the only thing missing from my life right now is spending a weekend in the tank for brawling, I can't imagine how I would explain that weekend to my kids. Dang, now I am going to have to go spar tonight (poor man's brawling).

It is sad that Paul has become so self focused that he cannot let go of EpicSki. He comes to the gatherings and acts disruptively. His life is unfulfilled in some way. It is like the jilted lover stalking his ex, pathetic and unfathomable.

Paul, if you are reading, perhaps it is time to move on, find your way, and lay down some fresh tracks with your own group. Or you can keep coming back and acting disruptively. But it only makes you appear to be childish and pathetic. This is no way to make friends or influence people, especially people who don't appear to want you around.

The thing I find completely unfathomable is how anyone could become tied to a ski training system sufficiently to become unhinged!?!?!? But having never had any training at the hands of PMTS, PSIA or any other training system, perhaps I am in the minority. Is anyone here as dogmatically tied to his or her system as Paul is to his?

Ski hard, have fun, sleep well. Repeat as necessary.

Mark
post #64 of 83
I don't think PMTS vs PSIA is the real issue, Maddog.
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle gonzo
I don't think PMTS vs PSIA is the real issue, Maddog.
True, but Paul has embraced that "rivalry" and used it to fuel his frustrations with the EpicSki community.

As much as I don't approve of the guy, should we be publicly discussing his mental state? I suspect a lot of it is speculation, and only taints his image more than he already does for himself by being so aggressive in his dealings with other people, both in person and over the internet.

From now on members should choose not to associate with him if he is going to be a problem, as was suggested previously. I personally would love to make turns with the guy, but probably not for the right reasons.

Later

GREG
post #66 of 83
I've not accused nor diagnosed any condition. I merely said that if people think they know everything about someone's erratic behavior, they don't understand much about psychological difficulties.

psychological difficulties are not necessarily a negative and they surely shouldn't be avoided or dismissed. the fact that you conclude that that we shouldn't discuss them reinforces my observation about people's ignorance on the subject.
post #67 of 83
Listen Folks,

I was there and saw the whole arguement. But for me to rehash the whole thing take sides would be unproductive.

1. Cornbread did not deserve to be treated the way he was.

2. Paul could not be convinced that he did anything wrong (who was the up hil skier?).

3. It sounds like Paul regetted his actions. (re: northeasterns post)

The thing is Cornbread is a good guy. Got to ski with him and he feels that he is owed at least an apology and the support of the community. This I feel is reasonable from his stand point. It was an ugly scene and it killed the Deer Valley after party. I told Paul so at the time it happened but guys will thump their chest it situations like this until the end of time. I was a buzz kill.

I avoided Paul the rest of the trip and I reget doing that. It was chicken shit of me. I hope that Cornbread's original plan was to go to Alta and he did not bail on Park City because he did not feel the group supported him. If he bail because we did not step up . . then bad on us!

In the end I don't know what happened on the slopes but I am willing to take Ryan at his word. I wish for Cornbread to feel welcome at future gatherings and for him to feel supported by the community.

Cornbread if you come to Tahoe you have a friend to ski with.

As for Paul I've known him for many years. I am still his friend and I hope he can find a way to make things right. Perhaps post something on realskiers.com.

Peace to everyone involved.

Ed
post #68 of 83

fwiw

Cornbread was, for the record, a complete gentleman throughout. The epitome of reason, good will, fence-mending (the attempt) and, in the end, good judgment. I suspect, especially based on Northeasterners post, which I'm glad is included here, Paul is well aware of this. But I cannot say that with any degree of certainty.

It was a great pleasure to ski with and talk to Cornbread. Absolutely the kind of person every gathering would benefit from having present, to the say the least. It would be epic's loss to have him decide to leave this community.

Having said that, I consider Paul a friend and hope he's given all of this some contemplation. Despite appearances, he has a lot to offer.
post #69 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by northeasterner
I met him briefly before the incident in the lodge and he seemed like a good guy. After the lodge incident I was walking back to my car and he was sitting on his car obviously disgusted with himself. I didin't know what had happened on the mountain and asked him what the fiasco was about in the lodge. He was cursing himself out saying that he lost control and shouldn't have done that, etc. I have no prior history with the guy, but I think down inside he's a good person. I hope he gets the help he needs.
I will take this as an apology from SCSA and that he regrets his actions. It is nice to know that he is capable of feeling a little empathy towards others. Thank you for sharing that Northeasterner.

As far as the “buzz kill”, I must apologize for that to the group that witnessed it and those who were looking for a little Gathering stoke. That certainly was not my intention the day of the incident or in posting this topic. I will try and post some pictures of my great trip, if they turn out, as an attempt to make up for it. (Still using film.) May I suggest in the mean time the great video that Lonnie has painstakingly put together along with the photos from Bob Peters and others.

Powdigger, I appreciate your support and that of the others that have expressed it. As far as Alta goes, it was my plan all along to ski there my final two days. Alta is my Mecca and favorite place in the world. On top of that, it was an Alta powder day in 12-18 inches of light LCC fluff. In all actuality, I had not planned on skiing at Deer Valley that day as I was in UT with another group (SkiNC.com) for their gathering and was going to go to Snowbird. But, that group kind of splintered their last day and I had such a great time at Snowbasin that I decided to make one more day of it with the Bears.

I do not regret going to DV that day and had a good time skiing with everyone including, PD, Del, WTFH, MilesB and his wife, ryan, the others, and even SCSA in the morning. That however does not change my view that SCSA, a banned poster, should not be permitted to ski or take part in any future EpicSki event. No one should be subjected to his actions, regardless of his condition, that I and others view as being provocative and dangerous.
post #70 of 83
Thread Starter 
Thanks ryan. I'm sorry you were a part of it as well.
post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan
Cornbread was, for the record, a complete gentleman throughout. The epitome of reason, good will, fence-mending (the attempt) and, in the end, good judgment. I suspect, especially based on Northeasterners post, which I'm glad is included here, Paul is well aware of this. But I cannot say that with any degree of certainty.

It was a great pleasure to ski with and talk to Cornbread. Absolutely the kind of person every gathering would benefit from having present, to the say the least. It would be epic's loss to have him decide to leave this community.
I want to echo Ryan's comments. I skied pretty much all day with Cornbread and really enjoyed his company.

As a matter of fact, I watched him make a series of some of the prettiest turns I saw the entire day. Ben Lomond was leading us through the murk and fog over to No Name and I followed Cornbread down a nice little off-camber shoulder. He made about ten really excellent short-radius turns in pretty difficult snow. I was very impressed.

One other point..

It's been brought to my attention by more than one of you that there seems to be a disconnect between my saying, on one hand, that SCSA is a very good skier and then also saying that I prefer not to ski with him again. I can see where the confusion might come from.

I think SCSA makes very good turns from a technical standpoint. My hangup has to do with how close to other riders he sometimes skis. His tolerance for skiing near someone seems to be much, much lower than mine. I would guess this is some sort of outgrowth of his very competitive nature.

To each his own, but not for me.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
My hangup has to do with how close to other riders he sometimes skis. His tolerance for skiing near someone seems to be much, much lower than mine. I would guess this is some sort of outgrowth of his very competitive nature.
At the Jackson Gathering SCSA shadowed one of the group repeatedly causing that person to make several defensive moves in tight quarters & totally unnerving him. I thought it might have been somethings personal but it sounds like its SCSA's SOP.
post #73 of 83
Rio, I suspect you are referring to me. If not, it happened to me as well. I repeatedly asked Paul not to follow me as I had a string of incidences with him both cutting me off and skiing on my tails (literally at times). I repeatedly asked him in a very polite way to please not follow me and choose another line. It was to no avail - he didn't seem to understand and when I finally voiced mild displeasure he responded with anger and threat. Like others here I do not want to ski with him again.
post #74 of 83
SCSA either can't control his abusive conduct or chooses not to. In either case, I've been at the receiving end of his problem, and I don't want to be there again.

Like many others, I ski and socialize for pleasure. When SCSA gratuitously steals that, he's no better than any other form of abuser.

If he can't - or, as I suspect, won't - keep his "problem" to himself and must visit unpleasantness on others, I really don't care that at other times he's really, deep down, a "good guy".

They say that when Ted Bundy wasn't a perverted murderer, he was a really presentable, intelligent, pleasant guy.
Ask me if I give a $h!t. And ask me if I think this comparison is totally over the top. I don't.

This guy has wasted enough time, space, and pleasure. If I never hear of him again, life will be better.
post #75 of 83
As far as I am concerned SCSA is not welcome at any EpicSki-related event for obvious and repeatedly demonstrated reasons. I assumed that position was well known after my public statements to that effect the first year after the banning, and the banning itself I assumed would communicate my position on the subject.

But I can't stop anyone from agreeing to ski with him if he shows up at a resort at any given time. I would suggest declining the invitation should he show up asking to ski with you.

I've heard a great deal of positive feedback about this year's gathering, sounds like it was a blast. Wish I could have been there - but starting a new business has taken over my life at the moment.

Am I right in my calculation that next year will be the fifth year anniversary of the first EpicSki gathering? That may warrant an extra effort to make it. Hope you are all having a fantastic year on the slopes.
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
Am I right in my calculation that next year will be the fifth year anniversary of the first EpicSki gathering? That may warrant an extra effort to make it.
Dude we will be in your back yard. Pick me up in front of the Peppermill and I'm buying Breakfast at Rosie's.

ed
post #77 of 83
Rosie's it is I don't live in Tahoe anymore, in L.A. now. But it's not that far away.
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle crud
the fact that you conclude that that we shouldn't discuss them reinforces my observation about people's ignorance on the subject.
I just wasn't sure if this was the proper environment to be discussing such issues about a specific person. I usually stay out of lounge type discussion as my expertise lies within skiing... and certainly not within psychology. Clearly there are some issues, but I would just assume not know about them if I don't know him.

Later

GREG
post #79 of 83
My mate Paul is a kind and big hearted man. He is passionate and alive. He speaks his mind. He is successful in business and life. He does not pander to mediocrity.

He saved my life once when I was being smothered by righteous people who thought they where important in the ski business.

He is bloody hopeless on cat tracks though.

Keep up or shut up

Love those with humility.

Love those with passion.

All else is just yet another shade of beige.

P.S. AC hid politics in a paid forum because some people cold not handle the truth.

Happy skiing
post #80 of 83
Am I right in my calculation that next year will be the fifth year anniversary of the first EpicSki gathering? That may warrant an extra effort to make it. Hope you are all having a fantastic year on the slopes.[/quote]

AC , wasn't the first gathering in 01 ?
Fernie was in 02 , when team Canada took the gold in hockey .............
I think I better make it to Tahoe next season .
post #81 of 83
Well crap I miss all the fun. True I skied with Harkin after lunch and
NoName was fun. I enjoyed meeting all of you and can't wait to do it again. That was my 1st Epic Gathering and you were all great. I made it up to DV on Saturday and saw some of you guys 1st thing in the AM but never got to ski with you. I heard somebody mention the Goldener Hirsch for Apre and went down there at about 3:30 but nobody ever showed and now I know why. Bummer. Just remember that skiing is something that is best shared with friends and don't let anything spoil that. As I type this I'am looking at all of the ski pictures I have on the walls in my office and almost every one involves a friend and a BIG SMILE! and thats the way I like it. I must personally apologize for the bad weather at Snowbasin for the gathering - it will never happen again. Steel

PS Harkin, I promise no more starfish when we ski again!
post #82 of 83
You know, as much as SCSA annoyed me in the gondola going up... he was picking a fight and I bit... and his method of fighting was to make an inflammatory statement about PSIA and then roar at the top of his voice to drown out any dissent... I must say he wasn't an evil or vicious person. When he was tired at the end of the day, he was normal.
When Ryan and I wanted to wait for Miles to come down, whose binding had broken, we sat down to wait and he skated rings around us, endlessly.
I think he has an untapped energy that must be sapped or else he has to find inappropriate outlets. I suspect he needs a creed to cleeve to. He skiied well, but as I remarked at teh time, I'd be interested to see if he's still skiing in 10 years time. He skiied very, very fast, bent over in a crouch, with his (very nice!) bum up in the air. At one point, we lost him because we got to the top, and stood and chatted while others came up, while he batted off down the hill.

that said, I don't dislike him. He evidently had some issues, which were offensive but not intended as such. He's quite good looking, and had a nice bum, skiied fast but not well (he uses muscle) and when tired, became a normal, intelligent person.

I liked the tired scsa, but the morning one needed to be dropped over a busy freeway.
post #83 of 83
It sounds like he would be fun to ski with. Mind you, I ski at 60mph on small eastern hills, and have many years of full-contact karate experience .
PS. I'm not a good skier though I did get a "10" on my yardsale yesterday, just a fearless one, but I don't run into other people on the hill, even when I'm on my last run, hitting 65mph and some other inconsiderate skiers decide to cut across my path (Talisman yesterday).
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