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Skiing Systems - Page 2

post #31 of 79
ssh said:
"It seems to me that you have a very high opinion of your own thinking and methodology, which, I admit, lowers my opinion of it. I have little respect for those who toot their own horns."
ummm...ssh: everyone has a high opinion of their own thinking and methodology. everyone.
i tooted nothing. i stated my opinion and then stated that if you want to read more, get the book. no need to flood the bandwidth here with my own ski ideaologies, and you can buck up and spend the money to buy it.
post #32 of 79
ssh said:
"Sure you intended to offend. You were just hoping to get away with it and not have me respond to it. You can't just belittle another person and toss in one of these and expect it to be OK."

wrong again. keep 'em coming, though... i had no intent to offend you whatsoever. if you're offended, it's because you chose to allow yourself to feel as such. not my intent. that's on you.
lightne up, it's only sliding on snow, and the internet, anyway. become a book reveiewer and tear me a new ass if you feel so strongly on the subject. i won't be offended hell, i can use the negative criticism. the positive criticism doesn't do a thing to improve me or my ideas.
please, ekeep it coming. you're giving me a roadmap to self-improvement with every ensuing criticism.
thank you for that
post #33 of 79
ssh continues:
"Your passion can't, but your motivation for some of what you say can. That's all I was judging. You're not likely to sell much of something that you say, "Hey, it's just like what you can get from any PSIA instructor anywhere.""
er...thanks, ssh- that's amazing that you can judge my motivation. i truly wish i posessed your abilities of clairvoyance.
thanks for letting me know that :

" You're not likely to sell much of something that you say, "Hey, it's just like what you can get from any PSIA instructor anywhere."

...that's likely why I never said that.
post #34 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
Do people REALLY think that getting equipment fitted and aligned is why PMTS trumps the rest?

Now, that's scraping the bottom of the barrel!:
No. They think that a highly developed system for aligning students combined with an amazing system of teaching trumps the rest. I've done it and it works.
post #35 of 79
then, ssh drones on:
"...with your poor interpretation of what I've written so far and your insistence on jumping to conclusions about me, my perspective, my motivation, and so on, I'm just not clear what you're trying to prove. So far, it's not been particularly helpful to me."

ssh, you ARE a wildman. nowhere did I opine as to your own motives, yet your posts are teeming with abhorrence at my own alleged motives.
i can assure you that your continual criticism and judgement of my motives has been wildly helpful to me, and most growth-inducing.
again, thank you for that
post #36 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton
No. They think that a highly developed system for aligning students combined with an amazing system of teaching trumps the rest. I've done it and it works.
which is to say that they're combining morpholgical correctiosn with their training, which is something i am 200% for, as well. that synergy truly completes the bigger picture lost in past teaching disciplines.

post #37 of 79
ssh:
why the anger?
let it go.
there is a valid teaching world outside the psia...
let the anger go, and think bigger, and with less anger.
losing the vitriol, alone, will make you a far better instructor.
oh, yeah- so will my book



(I always remember what my examiner, otto frei told us in my registration clinic (old term for level I):

"love your students....let love be your guide in teaching"

love, in this sport and all others, will make us all far better teachers and coaches.
post #38 of 79
Vlad, are you going to tell us what is your book? Curious mind want to know.
post #39 of 79
clearly, just my opinionated, judgemental antidogma.


....more of an examination of the overlap of techniques employed by pro ski racers, pro snowboard racers, and great coaches, in order to find a divergent and stronger ski teaching/learning base guideline, and then utilizing corrollary morphological concerns and course tactics to improve free skiing and free (snowboard) riding.
in combination with these disciplines, the successfully applied concept of hyper dynamic (constantly moving) class dynamics, and demonstrating once for every two student runs, exagerrated pantomime, etc, is examined to get newbies carving linked turns in their first few hours of either boarding or skiing (the idea is to teach both sports almost identically).
as my best coach told me on my first day of pro training:

"JJ- when you do well, i'm not going to say a thing- as a professional you should know when you've nailed it, and we won't waste any time discussing it. I'll only tell you what you're doing wrong...at this level, that's all you need to work on"

initially, positive reinforcement is the move...by a long shot!
as we move on out of intermediacy, we need only consider what it is we're doing wrong. as instructors and coaches, we need to employ this elite-weltcup level concept to out upper-level classes, to allow them to intuit their good habits, and work out their bad. this makes upper-level breakthroughs a thing of routine, in good classes.
as evidenced in these threads, i'm a huge proponent of skating and hop turns. hop-turns bring vertical motion and both up and down and unweighting all together, unconsciously, and skating brings edge transition, diverging turn initiation and carving all together , unconsciously, as well.
let the good habits be intuited, unconsciously, by our "physiological subconscious", and let the bad be consciously worked out with focused drills which exaggerate the diametric opposite of the negative movements.
most important features: developing "The Eye" as a coach/instructor (ultimately the two vocations should become one in the same), and compiling a huge and diverse bag of tricks.
sound like anything you'd wanna peruse?
post #40 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
which is to say that they're combining morpholgical correctiosn with their training, which is something i am 200% for, as well. that synergy truly completes the bigger picture lost in past teaching disciplines.


I sure Mr. Harb is an excellent teacher and bootfitter. At what level of cert do you become qualified to be a bootfitter? Is bootfitting part of the curiculum at all?
post #41 of 79
Quoting Nolo: "The only system I recognize is the system of the skier, the boot, the skis, the snow, and the terrain. The only philosophy I adhere to is transcendental: simplify, simplify!"

I find this “student system” a great perspective for any teacher of this sport to embrace.

Unfortunately, the very nature of commercially competitive teaching systems is to attempt to differentiate themselves from one another. This leads to deliberate exclusions and tendencies to criticize “the other system’s stuff” even when it is not understood. This means of self-justification creates systems constrained by the limits of their self-defined “boxes”. This exclusionary nature results in the reality that no teaching system is functionally all encompassing of all the elements necessary to meet all the needs of all "student systems".

We could categorize these teaching system competitors as either umbrella or specific type systems.

The umbrella systems have purported to “be all things to all students”. Unfortunately their historical functional reality defaulted be a “lowest common denominator applies to all” front line methodology. Umbrella systems have been very slow and difficult to evolve from this over generalization and provide specific strategies to take advantage of changing equipment opportunities, or service the changing expectations that current “student systems” can represent. Their evolution is to better define options appropriate to different "student systems".

Specific systems can suffer from being so rigidly adhered to that their application is not flexible enough to adapt to meet the needs of individual “student systems” that do not fit a narrower profile or students that cannot adapt their learning preference to a narrow scope of presentation options. Their evolution is to promote teaching the people side of the "student system" and not just the “stuff”.

So, wouldn’t we as instructors benefit by learning the “best practices” represented in both the common foundations and unique perspectives of any and all teaching systems available to explore? Wouldn’t this learning process give us greater resources in scope and depth of knowledge with which to better meet the varied needs each “student system”, better than only that available in any single teaching system’s box?

I am please to see among the masses of front line instructors a strong desire to learn from various resources and embrace what I call “non-denominational ski teaching” (prioritized by the needs of the “student system”). This appears to be inspiring the teaching systems politically empowered and historically entrenched hierarchy to facilitate the necessary change to meet the needs of the evolving “student systems” we exist to serve.
post #42 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton
No. They think that a highly developed system for aligning students combined with an amazing system of teaching trumps the rest. I've done it and it works.
Have you been aligned by other bootfitters? Or is there only 1 good one of those too?
post #43 of 79
Arc, thanks for dropping into this thread and for your typically wise and insightful observations. FWIW, I'm with you 100%.

I hope you can find time to drop in more often with your exceptional insight and guidance for us. Thanks, again.
post #44 of 79
Steve,

you're better than this ... just let it go. we all appreciate that if he was so busy, respected and accomplished he wouldn't have *so* much time to be posting here. if we ignore him, he might settle down.

kiersten
post #45 of 79
I agree with kiersten.
post #46 of 79
with respect and without malice I submit for consideration my signature below as I did in the psia/pmts dogma war thread post 351......it is time to stop.
post #47 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by klkaye
Steve,

you're better than this ... just let it go. we all appreciate that if he was so busy, respected and accomplished he wouldn't have *so* much time to be posting here. if we ignore him, he might settle down.

kiersten
nice judgement attempt, but actually i've been desk-ridden for a couple days. clearly 'steve' is not much better than his evidenced hypocrisy.
i'm all broken up that some random young lady feels i'm not accomplished.
i'm certain her own many years of professional competition, 29 years of teaching and coaching, and international teaching/ss directing experience more than speak for her superior insight into these matters.

the moment someone needs to ratpack by referring to 'we' as opposed to "i", they've lost due credibilty: ("if 'we' ignore him"). I've said little insult to your esteemed internet colleague, mr. sssh, although he's found it neccesary to judge me and deride me. some follks just can't accept new concepts, they always have to be right.
i won't further insult (intentioanlly or otherwise) your clearly important stature here
the 'net is the perfect spot for you both. enjoy
and smile more
post #48 of 79
Kiersten/SSH

I think we need to hook his highness up with either Mark or Carol. What Mark can't fix with a few couch sessions Carol can do with her scapel.
post #49 of 79
Vlad, What national team did you coach? When?
post #50 of 79
Thread Starter 
Curses, highjacked again!

Vlad, best of luck on the book. Ssh, learn on!

Thanks, Noodler, for reinforcing my belief that matching equipment to the morphology (thank you, Vlad) of a student is critical to his/her success at skiing. I'd like to echo my new friend Squatty Schuler's motto, I don't want to teach people to ski, I want to teach people to be skiers. That's my point in this thread.
post #51 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewil
Kiersten/SSH

I think we need to hook his highness up with either Mark or Carol. What Mark can't fix with a few couch sessions Carol can do with her scapel.

Golly.

kind of what i'd expect from a level III.
when you run out of any logical argument, forget about actually considering new ideas.
Just accuse the other professional of impertinence, refer to him as 'his highness', and suggest that he's psychologically impaired.

small wonder the PSIA is doing "so" well.

lose the hate. you might actually absorb some new info and improve as an instructor.....
funny, though- thinking along 'party lines', wearing insignia that displays one's party affiliation, suggesting that anyone whom thinks outside those party lines requires psychological counselling or more.....
you would have fit in well in munich in '38
post #52 of 79
vlad, have you not impaled enough nonbelieving meatbags and bloodsponges? I hear the transylvanian woods calling you.
post #53 of 79
transylvania, incidentally, is anything but dark and foreboding, esp. to us snow sports enthusiasts...that higher range of the resplendant carpathians
is reminiscent of wyoming's tetons, or maybe the wasatch, and the skiing is absolutely top notch, if you can stomach the scary, creaky , steep pomas.
beautiful skiing in the carpathians.

....and, for the record, uncle crud, i'm just posting alternative ideas, here.
the fact that your contemporaries choose to attack me for these alternative considerations speaks for itself.
some of us really invest little hubris into either our skiing or our teaching.
nice of you to quote bridger native scott schmidt. he 's sorta the living poster boy of alternative ski thinking, from his departure from the team to his threshold hike up to the palisades, and on. he's a helluva a guy, a truly gifted skier, and he embodies the concept of thinking outside the box-o'-dogma, and considering new ideas. not sure if you've put any turns in with him, but if you have, you'll know 'zactly what i mean
consider the philosophies of the icons you qoute, and you might find something, mayhaps some miniscule grain of worth, in my concepts and approaches.
cheers, regardless!

love and rockets, vlad the derailleur
post #54 of 79
Weems is a hero of mine. Here, from Chapter 5 of Brilliant Skiing, Every Day, is an example of why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weems
Many people who write about skiing lay down a system for performing the sport, usually in the form of a progression and often in the form of several thematic movement patterns. Others write about skiing in terms of a central theory, where one trick solves all problems.

In the real world, people learn better when they receive and perform the right series of cues at the right time—regardless of the system or the main move. Furthermore, the sport of skiing changes. Sometimes it changes dramatically and seemingly overnight, while sometimes the changes are subtle and creep into the picture.
This communicates a thinking that resonates with mine and reflects why I align my thinking along the lines of the system of skier/equipment/snow/mountain.
post #55 of 79
vlad, where did I say you weren't offering new ideas? or alternative views?
post #56 of 79
you never said anything of the kind, wasn't implying you had- i was explaining, in response to you asking me if i'd not impaled enough bloodbags hereabouts, that i was "just" posting some alternative views. didn't 'spect a couple members to be so offended.
what happened to the humour, the joi de vie, and the open-mindedness of skiing?
(actually, I know exactly what happened to it, and the beast wears a shiny pin )
post #57 of 79
BigE,

HH has a bootfitting and alignment center here in Colorado. I am going for an alignment boot fitting day before this years camp. Alignment and attention to equipment is very much a part of PMTS. If you are asking about boot fitting and alignment as part PMTS instructor certification, think you would have to check on their web site. As far as I know they do have a certification related to alignment.

As of your second, question I didn't get turned on to PMTS until last season. Prior to that I wasted quite a bit of money getting bad foot beds and poor fitting boots with other folks. The point is that none of them ever even bothered to check my alignment beyond eyeballing my boots in the shop. I didn't really know alignment existed until PMTS. I am sure there are others out there doing meaningful work in this area, Nolo mentioned some in her early posts as a matter of fact. PMTS just happens to be who I found first and until I find a reason to doubt their abilities I will be a devotee.

Don
post #58 of 79
Claybird:
look up Jeff Bergeron at "Boot Fixations" in Summit County.
I believe a search on this site will yield a bunch of his intuitively brilliant threads.
Jeff worked with a (women's prep-school alpine) team I coached in the 80s, and got them all aligned splendidly and went on to start the A-Basin Adult Ski Racing Program, and has been doing top-shelf, elite-level bootfitting for a couple decades, now.
I cannot recommend him and his genius enough
best with that-
VW
post #59 of 79
Clayton,

Thank you for the reply. A good fitter IS hard to find, and many don't do stance work, just canting.
post #60 of 79
Big E: Here's the first post of the thread, here on Epic, of Jeff Bergeron's:
" September 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM
Jeff Bergeron vbmenu_register("postmenu_336099", true);
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Breckenridge
Posts: 371


06 Expert boot advice by Jeff Bergeron/ Boot Fixation
Hi everyone,

As many of you know, I have been answering boot questions on this site for the last three years. Generally, these are questions on how to find the right boots, the differences between brands and models, etc.... Feel free to ask whatever you like on ski boots, and I will answer as best as I can.

Answering questions does take considerable time, so here are some guidelines on how to ask.

1. As before, QUESTIONS NEED TO BE FORMATTED! Start with your background info (height, weight, skier type, preferred terrain, etc.... whatever is relevant) and then NUMBER YOUR QUESTIONS. As before, I WILL IGNORE UNFORMATTED QUESTIONS, due to time constraints.

2. NOTE THAT I DO NOT CORRECT OTHERS RESPONSES. Sometimes readers want to give advice, often because I have not been able to respond as quickly as I would like. These responses are fine, as long as they are kept short. As in one paragraph maximum. If you want to write more, contact the person elsewhere.

Also, a family issue kept me away from this site since nearly the end of last winter. If you posted questions that were not answered, feel free to repost them.

Have a great season, and I hope you find this thread useful.

BACKGROUND INFO

Jeff Bergeron is the owner and operator of BOOT FIXATION (Breckenridge, CO/ 970.453.8546, bootfix@comcast.net), which has developed a reputation as one of the country's leading authorities on boot alignment and fitting. He has worked in the ski industry as a boot and ski tech, and instructor and coach for the last 19 years. He is currently writing a boot on ski technique.
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