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What is the system? Quiz (M.A.) - Page 2

post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
I have skied with Nolo, Phil, and (lesser extent) dchan. These pics and videos are not really representative of their skiing. In my mind, for example, I see Nolo dancing down the powder bumps showing her group how to be smooth. And she is; while getting really great angles and arcing her skis. I see their skiing through the video, so I can't be objective at all.

It's amazing to me what this shows and what it doesn't show. Once dchan gets more of the ESA video onto the video server, I think we'll have more to discuss...
post #32 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
Sorry Lonnie. I almost said PSIA due to the first pic, but oh well, I went with informal and missed you. Your basic stance and body looked to be prety classically American, but positions in the other pics looked to have some of the lack of discipline an informal skier displays.
Why are you sorry? You saw what was there. In some ways that's a compliment. One thing I don't want to be is a "skiing robot" like many instructors I see.....

L
post #33 of 48
The sorry was in case the "informal" part seemed less than good to you. I'm glad it didn't. There are plenty of great "informal" skiers & I actually was thinking "really good" or "pretty disciplined" informal skier. You are one of the skiers I waffled over most. Nolo was the other.

It would have been fun to have gotten to your question in time though. I still had a good time checking the skiers out. I've never actually had any real skiing experiences with PMTS. Just through interaction here and through Harb's books, a video clip or two.

The differences in attitude/execution I see look to be more ski "cultural" than systematic to me.

Racing/Iinstruction
American/Austrian

It would be interesting to find out a little bit more about some of the example skiers' influences & experiences.

Most interested in #4, 5, 1 & 2(ski hero(s), places most ski development occurred, general sense of intent or "philosophy.")
post #34 of 48
Thread Starter 
Roto,

I think I can answer for both me and my wife. I didn't seriously start skiing until I was 22 or 23. At that point I was most likely a level 5 MAYBE a level 6. Then I did a fair amount of skiing and was self taught to level 7ish/8ish (with all the bad habits that entailed). 99.9% of my skiing at that point was at Beech Mtn. NC. About 10 years ago, I jumped in the PSIA game and started teaching. I got my level 1 my first year and my Level II my second year. I sometimes think about my level III, but honestly, I don't know if my skiing is good enough. Maybe nolo and phil can give you a better idea as they know what they are looking for, and I don't. It's a goal, but not one I'm seriously working for at this time. It's very hard as a part time skier and ski teacher to get the personal time on snow to work on stuff that you need to work on. My ski heros, Glen Plake (it's the hair man) and Franz Kalmer.

Laure, my wife and skier #2, started skiing at age 2. She also did most of her skiing at Ski Beech. Her parents had a house there and she was the first/youngest "wizard" (as in the wizard of OZ) in their kids ski school. Her family ski ALOT when she was a kid. She started racing at an early age and went to the Jr. Olympics 3 or 4 times. I think GS was her favorite event. In College she skied for Appalachian State and went to the USSA national 3 of the 4 years she was there. Her best results at that level were in the high teens/low 20's. She didn't race her final year, or she would have gone again. She taught beginning skiing 1 year. We moved to UT 5 years ago. It's amazing to me to watch her on skis. She constantly get comments when we are skiing at Alta "Wow, you ski better than you're instructor...." EVERYONE that we have ever skied with has commented on how smooth she is when she skis. Bob Peters payed her the highest compliment at Snowbasin Friday, "Laure is the only skier I know that will follow me anywhere...." It's true. That's pretty high praise considering Bob's background.....

That's it for 1 and 2.

L
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
My ski heros, Glen Plake (it's the hair man) and Franz Klammer.
I can see plake in that second pic (- the hair and grin).

It does take a certain amount of time on snow to acheive level III standards/skills. A lot of part time folks do it though. I would say understanding what those standards are is the first step, then knowing where one is in relation to those standards is next. After that it's pretty easy. Waiting for someone else to let you know when you are ready is a good way to never be ready. I hope that sounded supportive (it was supposed to be).

Quote:
"Laure is the only skier I know that will follow me anywhere...." It's true. That's pretty high praise considering Bob's background.....
How nice of him... but I don't know his background either. I'm not surprised ev n seeing just that one pic that Laure gets many compliments. I sometimes ski with a lady who was on the U.S.S.T. and I see her ski like that picture a lot.

So who are/were Laure's ski hero(s)?
post #36 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
How nice of him... but I don't know his background either. I'm not surprised ev n seeing just that one pic that Laure gets many compliments. I sometimes ski with a lady who was on the U.S.S.T. and I see her ski like that picture a lot.

So who are/were Laure's ski hero(s)?
Roto,

Back in the day, Bob Peters was the lead backcountry guide at Jackson Hole, WY. Need I say more? When I asked her who her ski heros were at first she said she didn't have any, then she said "Tell 'em Bob Peters..." But I think a lot of that had to do with the tread that was on realskiers.com yesterday....

L
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
Nailed # 7. It was the guiding of the feet & legs, both working actively in the same direction
I'm glad to hear you can see the guiding and not just the tipping!
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy
7--That's how I'd like to ski.


Ken
Interesting..

I really don't want to "ski like this" but I was working on a specific task. Just one set of movements to add to my quiver..
post #39 of 48
BUMP..


Just looking again..
post #40 of 48
Maybe I do want to ski like this sometimes. As I play with it (last few weeks) these were good turns. Could be better but I'm working on it..

DC
post #41 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
It does take a certain amount of time on snow to acheive level III standards/skills. A lot of part time folks do it though. I would say understanding what those standards are is the first step, then knowing where one is in relation to those standards is next. After that it's pretty easy. Waiting for someone else to let you know when you are ready is a good way to never be ready.
Roto,

This has recently come back into my mind. After seeing me ski, I'm starting to have people ask me if I'm thinking about the exam. A few more have told me I'd be a good/strong canidate. Hummm.....

L
post #42 of 48
I just noticed this post (after all this time) and as “skier 5” would like to add some comments and hopefully some insight about those I skied with, the conditions, and my own skiing. First, I think it was really a great observation of Lonnie’s to recognize that there are many ways to get down the mountain in some form of efficient style no matter the training or lack of. I don’t check the “Skiing Technique and Instruction Forum” often because I frankly find most of the comments over analytical and many times silly (here’s my payback... what follows will be over analytical). Still, I recently posted a video of my own skiing, partly to here the comments but mainly to get a few tips that I could work on to improve things. I really could care less about PSIA, PMTS, race or whatever training as I know many with no training whatsoever that can kick many peoples butts that carry pretty high credentials (the old Harpo posts come to mind).

As for my fellow skiers that day, they all were excellent and without a doubt low and solid level 9s. The photos tend to not do them justice and to over scrutinize any still or even a short video segment is not logical. These are the people who I like to ski with while out west and look to learn from and improve my own skiing. I could informally tell early on, mostly through conversation and past experience, what the skiers backgrounds were. The one who I was not aware of yet stood out was Laure. After skiing with her in the morning I asked her if she had a lot of race training. It was just very apparent to me that she had. She is a fantastic skier. Someone that day who did not get into this little photo contest was Bob Peters. I really do not have a “ski hero” but if there is one skier who I truly would like to emulate skiing off-piste it would be him. It’ll never happen, but the knowledge, skill, and courtesy that he posses are something for me to strive for.

The conditions that day were tough. Not the worst off-piste conditions I’ve been in, but for my second day of the year, not-so-fat 70 mm skis, and being out of ski-shape, it was a struggle at times in the heavy 12 inch or more cut-up and crud. I was by far the weakest of the group but believe I managed to keep up with the pros. What I tried to do that day was be as balanced and patient with my turns as possible. I have always tried to use high edge angles and, if not, at least match both of my skis in most situations. Mostly, I was trying to keep my weight about 60-40 but found myself favoring the downhill ski, lifting the inside ski, and getting in the back seat many times. With fatter skis I probably would have fared a little better. With more days on the snow, the K2 Axis X would have been just fine. Like my old screen name, I was feeling a bit “rusty” that day. (I like the canting tip about my right ski as this alignment issue has come up recently in the video I posted. Photos and video do have some merit.)

My training started when I was 12 at Ski Roundtop, PA. They offered an excellent ski package for the area schools that consisted of six lessons that I took advantage of all the way through my senior year of high school. I also had some minor race training and competed a little bit at the local level. I usually always had a season pass and skied several days a week. I once got in sixty days in a row. After high school, in the mid-eighties, I was a junior instructor at Roundtop teaching mainly never-evers, novices, and low intermediates. A lot of those lessons were to the very same area school programs that I was brought up in. Roundtop kind of had its own unique way of teaching beginners in that we taught people how to turn by using a J-turn. Many of the instructors were PSIA and several of them were high level. I took many “clinics” from those higher-ups so I’d have to say that it was PSIA driven. This is where I kind of obtained my current distaste for most teaching programs. It was just to rigid and authoritarian for me in that “this is the way you must ski” (PMTS appears even more so). I did not want to ski like a robot. I just wanted to ski and develop my own style with the skills I had obtained and have someone be more of a coach. Free-skiing then was spent in the icy moguls that I developed a strong passion for and still have today. Afterwards I raced for an Army team and did fairly well in the races I entered against guys who had much more training and experience. After the Army I moved to Augusta, GA and for about ten years skied pretty sporadically. If I was lucky, I got in a few days a year up in NC or WV. In the late ninety’s, the shaped ski craze and the ski bug bit me again so I have been skiing much more. Last year I got in 15 days but this year a paltry 6. I’ve had two carving lessons and four high level off-piste lessons since rededicating myself to the sport. Not unlike golf, I look for ski instruction to work with what I’ve got and provide coaching tips or spot a minor quirk in order to handle difficult conditions like that day at Snowbasin as opposed to some dogma on how you must ski. Just as much from the ski instruction I have received, I’d say most of my high edging and balance skills were obtained through lots of ice hockey that I played when I was younger and still do twice a week. As far as where I rank on the skill level chart, I struggle with that but would say I am a high 8 most of the time or low 9 on my best days. To sum all of that up, I had a lot of old school training that ended twenty years ago and six modern lessons since. I’d still say I’m a better skier today at 40 than I was in my late teens and early twenties skiing far fewer days a year.

Hope that adds a little belated light to an interesting topic. Glad I could play a role.
post #43 of 48
Thanks for being there! You're style looks very neutral and natural, especially since you are turning above the camera. It's a real good shot of the boots.
post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread

....As for my fellow skiers that day, they all were excellent and without a doubt low and solid level 9s.....
Not me!
post #45 of 48
All the skiers look pretty graceful to me and thats the biggest factor when I look at someone and judge their skiing. If you look good chances are you are skiing well. If you look like you are struggling, you probably are as well. I think it'd be a pleasure to ski with any of you folks(aside from scsa as I've heard things)
post #46 of 48
Did that make sense? What I meant was that no over analyzing is really required. If it looks good at first glance chnaces are it is. Just a little clarification.
post #47 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSOcean10
I think it'd be a pleasure to ski with any of you folks(aside from scsa as I've heard things)
I can't believe, I just typed a post in SCSA's defense, but I did...

All things considered, I think SCSA/Hoyeka would be just fine to ski with, 1 on 1. At the snowbasin gathering, My wife was REALLY irritated by him the whole day (from minute #1). Personally, my only deal with him that day is he seemed to know who I was, but I had no idea of his history here on epic or at that other website (He didn't bother to fill me in either). Personally, I had no real issues with him that day, but then again, he wasn't skiing 12" off the back of my skis all day either. The first thing he said to me at the base area was "LONNIE!!!!! I'm gonna kick your @$$!" I took it as tounge in cheek, but I'm not sure if that's the way I would introduce myself to some one. At first I thought he said "SCCA" or Sports Car Club of Amercia, so I asked him if he wanted to rally race around the parking lot (I know your reading this SCSA so know you know where that one came from). When he finally said "I'm Harald's boy!!" I started to figure things out....

Before I got banned over on the other site, he did send me a couple of disparaging PM's. Stuff like that doesn't really get me tripped out. I went to college at a military school, so I kinda let those things roll off my back. In fact my reply was "Hugs and Kisses to you too SCSA." I did FWD them to the site mods over there, which apparently had no effect. (It's kinda ironic that I get bumped over there, for debating bike racing facts, while other are still there after sending "threating" PM's....)

Anyway, I think SCSA would be fine, if he'd just turn the intensity meter from "11" down to about 8.5. It seemed his was totally in "Us" vs "Them" mode that whole day, while the rest of the group was in "us" mode. With the folks skiing in that group, I know we would have included him, had he wated to play "nice". But he didn't really seem interested in playing with the group. It seemed as if he had an axe to grind with 6 folks (not including me) that had no dog in the "fight" (debate) he was trying to start. If he had just taken the time to find out what everyone elses agenda was, I don't think things would have ended up as ugly as they did later in the weekend (which I wasn't party to.)

L
post #48 of 48
Haha I say leave the debate int he forums and when you are on the hill....just ski
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