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Anja Paersons comments on modern SL technique - Page 2

post #31 of 47
ummm...TomB- i hope you got the smileycon I posted.... that 'intermediate rut' thing is meant as a joke. i have no doubt you might ski circles around me.....
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
ummm...TomB- i hope you got the smileycon I posted.... that 'intermediate rut' thing is meant as a joke. i have no doubt you might ski circles around me.....
I saw the smileycon and I am glad you said that. After all, I don't think you know how I ski.

But, speaking of intermediates, you would not tell an intermediate to "ski the short line and avoid round turns" would you? :
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeskinow
Tom,

I must admit that I'm no expert on this stuff. But I can ski and I have found that the broader my range and spectrum of technique the more versatile I am. I love to finish my turns, but I also like to change it up. Snug, controlled turns in the fall line are where it's at for me, but on the flat you gotta open it up. Variation is great and it's skill, when you can do it.

I do not put racers on a pedestal. I never raced. The skills learned in racing transfer nicely to rec. skiing, not perfectly but you can tell an old racer on the slopes. They usually do quite well.
I agree, good skiing is good skiing. But I was focusing on Anja's specific comments to "ski the short line and avoid round turns". She is obviously right (which is why racers at all levels should take notice as tdk6 mentioned), but can you imagine somebody doing that when there are no gates in sight?
post #34 of 47
believe it or not, i like 180o hop-turns for intermediates:
-
-
-
-
-
, leading into hopped 'zigzag stitch turns' :

\
/
\
/
\
/
\
/

into zigzags with a 'one-mississippi straight-run' in the center of each zig and zag:

\
I
/
I
\
I
/
I
\
I

(the "I" denotes the count of "one mississippi inserted into the fall-line of each zig and zag)

into rounded turns with less hop, and more carve:
)
(
)
(
)
(
)

so, technically, i do teach short-angled hops, but only as a means to a rounded eventual end.
that make any sense?
post #35 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
I agree, good skiing is good skiing. But I was focusing on Anja's specific comments to "ski the short line and avoid round turns". She is obviously right (which is why racers at all levels should take notice as tdk6 mentioned), but can you imagine somebody doing that when there are no gates in sight?
As an instructor I teach students at all levels to make nice round turns. The so called SlowLineFast consept relates very well to ski-instructing and recreational skiing. In gates I also think that round turn tactics are good but obviously if you want to go fast you need to pick a straighter line. We have practise today so I will focus on Anjas pointers and see where it takes me .
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
believe it or not, i like 180o hop-turns for intermediates:

so, technically, i do teach short-angled hops, but only as a means to a rounded eventual end.
that make any sense?
It does if you have a young aggressive intermediate that wants some action right now or they walk and they always beat on their skis. Your approach will definitely take some snot out of them.

Hey wait a minute, that means me too. There wouldn't be blood left let alone snot by the time I got through with that exercise.
post #37 of 47
Just like everything else a great skier says,there is something to be learned from that comment. In her application that tactic worked. In case you missed it that is only a race tactic. Suggesting it is more than that is misleading.
Is racing the pinnicle of the sport? For some it is but not anymore than park and pipe, powder eights, freestyle bumps, freeride huckers, or the recreatonal skier who is only out to enjoy the outdoors. To place one above the others is simply showing your own interests not the scope or totality of the sport. That is the wonderful thing about skiing, it is an individual pursuit of whatever discipline you choose.
JASP
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
It does if you have a young aggressive intermediate that wants some action right now or they walk and they always beat on their skis. Your approach will definitely take some snot out of them.

Hey wait a minute, that means me too. There wouldn't be blood left let alone snot by the time I got through with that exercise.
like everything in life,
it's not what you do, but rather,
how
you do it.
I apply the same technique to the passive middle aged female as well, just in a far more relaxed manner with much more gliding and resting in between. somehow, disciussions of ambient ornithology, while resting, do wonders to help the older, more fragile pupil relax. always seem to be a few chickadees and titmice (or tits and serins in europe) flitting around, trailside, to discuss, so as to take one's mind away from the task at hand and sorta 'clean the disc' for a breather.
after a nice, non-ski conversed breather, a handful of hop-turns become exhilarating for the intermediate adult, and this touch and go methododlogy rids the intermediate of the unconscious need to just 'get down the mountain', but, rather, instills a new apprecaition for a more aerobic burst, followed by some birdwatching.
you'd be absolutely shocked at what this tempo changeup does for that style/level of lesson.
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6
Anja was the fastest one in Ofterschwang first run today. Second run still to come....

She commented her first run on tv and talked a little bit about moderns SL technique. Here were her 2 pointers:
- ski the short line.... dont make too round turns
- pressure on skis should be very short

- try to aim at the gate with your inside knee (edited)
I think a photo of this can help to clarify things. I think this is a very good example of the above:

http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/20...005-sl-1c.html
post #40 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
I think a photo of this can help to clarify things. I think this is a very good example of the above:

http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/20...005-sl-1c.html
Thanks BigE, indeed a very good example. All 3 pointers nailed! Thanks .
post #41 of 47
There is no doubt that racing will make your free skiing better. This does not always imply that you will be using the same movements in your free skiing as you do in your racing. Slalom is a great example of how the two can differ in modern racing. The time spent on your edges in a high energy short radius free skied turn, compared to the time spent on your edges in a typical slalom turn are quite different. Similar movement patterns can go into both, but there is not reason to constantly free ski like you are winding your way through a course. You really don't need a large pivot at the top of the turn when free skiing because you have no course dictating your next turn. The picture of Rocca that was provided looks like it is a sightly more open and offset course, allowing for slightly more time on the edges - which translates closer into free skiing for mortal humans, but often slalom turns are much different from this. When I free ski I usually use only a very little pivot, but in a course it is much more noticable because it is necessity.
Later
GREG
post #42 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier
There is no doubt that racing will make your free skiing better. This does not always imply that you will be using the same movements in your free skiing as you do in your racing. Slalom is a great example of how the two can differ in modern racing. The time spent on your edges in a high energy short radius free skied turn, compared to the time spent on your edges in a typical slalom turn are quite different. Similar movement patterns can go into both, but there is not reason to constantly free ski like you are winding your way through a course. You really don't need a large pivot at the top of the turn when free skiing because you have no course dictating your next turn. The picture of Rocca that was provided looks like it is a sightly more open and offset course, allowing for slightly more time on the edges - which translates closer into free skiing for mortal humans, but often slalom turns are much different from this. When I free ski I usually use only a very little pivot, but in a course it is much more noticable because it is necessity.
Later
GREG
Good post Greg. I agree with you fully. If you free ski you can controll your speed by stearing your skis in such a manner that you dont have to slam on the brakes or create big pivots like you have to do on a racing track where controlling your speed is not that easy.
post #43 of 47
As a refinement for the expert skier, I think mimicking the race technique makes sense. Basically, the idea is to spend more time on a flat ski and turn very sharply once near the fall line, and then releasing once directed in the desired course. Doing this requires extremely strong technique, as well as physical strength. It's really nothing special, other than lengthening the neutral phase. However, instead of skiing arcs, this tactic can be compared to jumping on a trampoline. The release must occur at the appropriate time (as soon as you're pointing where you want to go) or nothing will happen.

The pivot is also useful for the expert skier. It's a great way to remain in control on steeper terrain while maintaining a carve. However, it should only be worked on by someone with really solid, racer-like carving skills. Otherwise, turns will become a complete pivot.

In short, this stuff makes sense as a refinement for the expert carver but not for the recreational skier. They should work on carving skills first.

And yes, it has been around for a while...
post #44 of 47
your points (preceding post) are pretty much on the money, except you might want to replace 'racing' with slaom racing', as gs-dh turns utilize far less "pause and snap", and actually, in many race foundations (they are all far more different than the many teaching systems, albeit more subtly so), emphasis is on the most gradual of trnsitions from flat to edge.

One espcially salient point that many professional ski instructor types consistently forget is that in racing, one's technique is dictated by their seeding; that is to say that if one is high in the start order, one has a nice, smooth course with which to practice very demonstrative turn initiation, picking one's own, personalized line. as we get toward the bottom of the order, however, the athletes now have ruts which dictate their line, regardless of their own preference, and they stick it accordingly.
ruts can be both good and bad...they actually allow for some decrease in effort, as the athlete now has bought the ticket and is simply taking the ride, like some titan standing on a pair of luges.
the devil is in the shape of the athlete's ski.
not sure how many of you here are aware of this, but the more sidecut the ski, the more horridly it 'snakes' along the ruts' edges, creating a horrific medialateral shimmy and clatter that makes constant pressure difficult, and plays havoc on the athlete's menisci.
hardware selection becomes key, dictated by seeding and ambient conditions.
when i raced weltcup, i typically tried to have a few relatively un-sidecut boards on hand for such seeding. that's how i got in with a 'silent sponsor' for boards, for many seasons- i needed sidecuts (more concisely: "non-sidecuts) for rut work. I was rarely ever winning races, esp. slaloms (my weak event, but i needed the points) so i was typically getting lousy positioning.
my custom 'straightedge' sleds saved my ass and made me look a lot better than i actually was in those ruts, and saved me from many eliminations.
there is far more to what you see a racer doing, in course (esp. when his/her ski/'board sponsor provides only a limited quiver, which is far and away the norm) than many amateur competitors and coaches, and professional ski instructors realize.
don't judge a racer's line selection without having all of the dependent variables considered.
("MA" my ass...... that's a joke, ladies, drop the flamethrowers and step away from the keyboards.... )
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad
your points (preceding post) are pretty much on the money, except you might want to replace 'racing' with slaom racing', as gs-dh turns utilize far less "pause and snap", and actually, in many race foundations (they are all far more different than the many teaching systems, albeit more subtly so), emphasis is on the most gradual of trnsitions from flat to edge.
SG and DH are still based on skiing long arcs. GS, however, is starting to look alot more slalom-like. Obviously, with straighter skis and higher speeds, body strength does not allow impulse to be as short in slalom, but you do see more of a z-line than a few years ago.

Compare these videos:

Arc'd GS line:

Michael Von Grunigen, 2003
http://www.rmmskiracing.org/video/20...-MVG-final.mpg

Short-Impulse GS line:

Check out GS runs from this season (RTL means GS)
http://www.sport1.at/coremedia/gener...d=3217348.html

Differences are subtle, but GS turns now seem to be "snappier," whereas Von Grunigen's take the shape of a long, smooth arc.

It is, however, important to note that even today, on gates where forces are especially high, the racers ski a rounder, longer-pressured line.
post #46 of 47
every racer skis differently. that's the beauty of racing, little religious adherence to 'form'
post #47 of 47
...............and von grunigen is one of the most iconoclastic, rotational-steering, absolutely brilliant, smooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttttttttttttttt ttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
breakthrough skiers of our time, in my opinion.
every serious skier should study vids of his skiing, regardless of discipline.
forget all the exagerrated colour-by-numbers vids of your pet examiners,
and just study von grunigen for an hour or two.
it's like visual opera...wagnerian flow........

he skis like a cello sounds.......
bow back, two strings, one string, bow forward, man.....
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