base oxidation?

I would suspect the snow was either old or man made when you skied. It probably did a job on the factory ski (which is usually not too good or durable from most manufacturer's). So what you need to do is hot wax them a number of times in a row, that will build up a good amount of wax impregneted into the base of the ski and offer better protection.

I also found Holmenkol's wax web tech tips and they have one on base burn as well as good waxing info.

I got this feedback from one of my customers yesterday (others have told me the same, but it seemed appropriate to post):

We race with team norway and are now using your
wax exclusively. I have noticed less base and
edge burn.

Also here is a link on new ski prep:
http://www.racewax.com/tunenewski.html
most of this applies to racing, wax info in support of RShea's comment:
http://www.racewax.com/tunetips.html

Just wax them. Actually even if going to use fluro waxs still start off with the cheap hydro wax. just wax lots. i don't do the wax prep route of wax scrap, wax scrap, wax scrap. On a new pair I clean wax ski wax ski , wax after every time I ski for the first 3 ski days.

I am not sure what you mean by oxidation -- that's something else.

If you see white spots that look kind of dry and bony, then that's base burn. It's what you get when there's not enough wax on the ski. Definitely wax them ASAP.

You might also want to check to see if the white areas feel fuzzy/hairy. If so, I would give the bases a good scrape before waxing. My base planer shaves hairs quite nicely.

Base burn and oxidation are the same thing. When something "burns" it is oxidized.

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Wax with a cheap hydrocarbon wax without any additive first: the more you'll wax (and scrape), the faster the ski will get and the better the protection. I usually wax EVERY single time I go out and use a very cheap workshop wax for this. When race day approaches, I use a decent hydro, scrape and then use my final raceday wax on top (with fluoro and/or moby depending on conditions). After the race, I usually hot scrape the base with the same cheap stuff I use for training in order to get rid of any remaining fluoro and give a good solid 2-3 coats of wax before the ski touches the snow again.

I've yet to get signifiant base burn this year (apart from the usual line along the edges in slalom).

This brings up a good point... how often to wax. It has been discussed many times in here. There is no hard/fast rule that makes sense because of many factors that includes snow conditions, skier type etc.

The best thing is to use your eyes and wax according to need. Learn to look for these signs of oxidation and don't let it get out of hand. Jeff has a great system and is exactly what I recommend to people. Casual skiers like me may be able to skip a day waxing. But I judge that on a day-to-day basis; sometimes the snow is so abrasive that I must wax every day. I usually carry some fluoro paste wax with me and if the base is borderline, I can stretch it out another day with a coat of paste wax (and it makes for fast skis too).

If oxidation gets too advanced, the base won't accept wax anymore and you have to stone grind it and start over.

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I hate to be picky, but at best that might be regional ski tuner slang (same as base burn). I know what oxidation really means*, and dry bases with wear spots have definitely not oxidized. You'd get the same effect by using a strong base cleaner, and that's neither oxidation nor burn there.



--

ox·i·dize vti
1.to react or cause a chemical to react with oxygen, for example in forming an oxide.
See also reduce v. 9
2.to lose electrons, or to cause a chemical element or compound to lose electrons.
See also reduce v. 10
3.to form an oxide coating or to cover something with an oxide coating

Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

OK but I didn't say that white spots (from the base being dry) is the same as base burn or oxidation. I said if the base is "burned", it is oxidized. As you say, dry bases with wear spots may not be oxidized, and if they aren't oxidized, then they aren't burned.

White spots may not be "burns" or oxidized, but burns are oxidation. The difference is dry spots are reversible, burns/oxidation aren't.

It seems as though any whitening of of a ski base would be considered oxidation, if it isn't oxidation what is it? The real question for me is what is the extent of the oxidation? If just the very top layer of the base is oxidized, then waxing, scraping an brushing will most likely take care of it. For more extensive damage the skis may have to be ground. For damn near destroyed skis (freezer burn) where the p-tex material has been eroded along the edge, it may be necessary to replace the damaged p-tex altogether, and unless you happen to race DH or SG on extremely hard, infused race courses all the time this will most likely not be a concern.

As has been posted before, the best way to combat this is to get as much wax into the base as possible, If there's wax on the skis the bases will not oxidize.

Ski bases do oxidize but the rate of oxidation of polyethylene is very, very slow. What is happening is that the sharp edges of snow crystals are shredding the polyethylene base where ski/snow friction is greatest, which means usually along the edges of skis.

Base burn is not burn per se resulting from heat (unless maybe you are a competitive downhill racer) but the ripping of polyethylene micro hairs from the base or "shredding" by the sharp spikes of snow crystals. At least at the speed most mere mortals ski. If the base contains graphite, some of the graphite also falls out further contributing to the grayish/whitish look.


If you were to sandpaper the ski base at the edge you would get approximately the same result. Although there is friction involved, it is abrasion and not heat or oxidation that is causing the edge damage.

Regardless, the best preventative solution is to wax well before you ski. On my SL skis I use Swix CH3 powder sprinkled along the skis edges over the wax of the day before I scrape and iron in. Depending on the type of snow and the speeds and turns you generate, you may not need to do it often. CH 4 crayoned in along the edges can also work.

Fresh snow has sharp snow crystal points. Man made snow is also quite abrasive. Older snow less so. Try skiing in the spring with shorts and taking a fall and you will find out how abrasive snow can be. Better yet look for other persons who have.

I could be wrong about this, but that is my understanding of the terms "oxidation" or "base burn" that are used to describe what is really an abrasion process that occurs along ski base edges. Once it has occurred and is quite visible, only a stone grind will "cure" the problem. Waxing will help prevent more damage and conceal existing damage but will not eliminate it, and your skis will be slower.

If the damage is slight, a good, sharp steel scraper may "shave" off the micro hairs. However, unless you are very good with tools, a steel scraper can cause a lot of more serious damage to the ski base.: Whenever the scraper skips you will have a new horizontal scratch in your ski.

EDIT: Typos.

I'll agree with LostBoy and others that "base burn" is the product of abrasion, not any sort of oxidation.

The etymology, so far as I can figure it out, is sort of round-about. The re-connection of "base burn" with "oxidation" is almost a linguistic joke.

I think the term "base burn" is an extension from "wind burn" or "razor burn:" each a skin irritation caused by friction, i.e. something entirely different from heat or any sort of oxidation reaction. So far as I can tell, those expressions come from a "sun burn," which you get from solar radiation, and which feels similar to a plain old "burn," which you get from touching something hot, like a pot on the stove. There's no oxidation reaction there either (unless, I guess, it's a really, really bad burn). We finally get around to oxidiation if your thermal burn came from a wood fire, which "burns" (verb, not noun) in an oxidation reaction.

warm wax scrape

quote from jeffr: After the race, I usually hot scrape the base with the same cheap stuff I use for training in order to get rid of any remaining fluoro and give a good solid 2-3 coats of wax before the ski touches the snow again.

with all the dirt mixed in with the snow, i've been doing the warm wax scrape to get the dirt out of the bottoms. just use a cheap wax, let it gel up and then scrape it off. you'll probably see some dirty wax coming off. this is a good prep to do everytime you wax if you skiing in the NE this year. it ususally doesn't have to be done so often, but with all the dirt out there, it's a good practice this year.

I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Before I wax, I usually run a bronze brush over the bases a few times, then use a black fibertex pad under the brush for a few more passes to cut down any minor micro hairs that are there.

If you're just throwing wax over an already abraded base, you're not really solving the problem. If the base looks "oxidized" and fibertex won't change it significantly, take them into a good shop and have them restructure the bases. I usually have them leave off the wax, as I prefer to do my own base prep. That basically consists of a lot of passes with fibertex and then 5-10 coats of a soft, base prep wax (CH10 works), with the required cooling, scraping, and brushing in between. Then I'll put on whatever wax is appropriate.

I generally wax after every day or two, depending on the skis (race or freeskiing) and conditions. I generally only use fluoro waxes for races, serious training, or for wet days, and mostly stick with either Swix or SVST hydrocarbon waxes for day to day use.

No, You need a $200,000 mobile home with a waxroom setup.
This so you can run out, get the snow temp and then wax appropriately.
Otherwise you could hire a ski technician.
If those skis are driving you too crazy, ship 'em here.
Stop being Skicrazed and become Skiingcrazed.

If by cleaning the base you mean hot scraping or using a base cleaner, then no. I may take a wet towel and wipe down the bases if it's been especially dirty out, but I usually just go straight for the brush. I have an old one I use for cleaning skis and other "dirty" work. This removes any excess wax that is sitting on top of the structure, which allows the fibertex to cut whatever hairs are there without getting gummed up with wax. After the fibertex, I hot scrape with a warm wax to remove whatever residue and dirt remains.

If I'm shapening edges (which I usually do), I'll do it just before the hot scrape.

Without seeing close-up pictures, we can't diagnose for sure, but it is possible that you have overheated your base and caused the base material to bubble. If so, there is little you can do other than take them to a repair shop and have them treat each bubble as they would a core-shot repair.

What happens if you push down on the bubble? Does it "give" a little?

I'm still having trouble picturing your problem, but from your last post I'm guessing you just had incomplete absorbtion/scraping of a cold-temp wax, though this usually happens with an iron.

Ironing in a softer Zoom either dispersed the harder wax and/or gave it a chance to absorb into the base.

It's very common.
Swix makes a very hard CH3 powder that you sprinkle along the edges over your regular wax and then iron in. The type of snow and the speeds and and turns you generate, determine how often you will need to re-apply the CH3. Check to be sure that sure that the wax of the day you are using is hard enough for the conditions you will be skiing in.

Regarding the choice of wax....

Here is some feedback I got this year:

"We race with Team Norway and are now using your wax exclusively. I have noticed less base and edge burn. ::: Michigan"

I have gotten similar comments from other teams.

.

Team Norway

When you say Team Norway are you talking Kjetil Andre Aamodt, Lasse Kjus, Aksel Lund Svindal, Kjetil Jansrud, Lars Myhre, Hans Peter Buraas et al? Somehow I figured them boys it'd be using Swix or Holmenkol since they is Norwheegian Producs.

- Fossil